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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Solecist Project
#321 - 2015-04-28 12:26:11 UTC
Melenos wrote:

I make a lot more with explo. Nef explo plz.

Regarding incursions:
The isk/hour isn't that great., Also you loose one shiny ship to the ocasional sucide ganks and you're prett much lost a months income. So, not that troublesome.

Also, i feel like most of the time the people that complaining are those oh-so-hardcore 1-jump-in-lowsec self-declared pirates who simply want more easy gank targets. But guys, the isk you destroy need to be generated somehow, so let the carebears be carebears.

NPC alt bait, beware.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#322 - 2015-04-28 12:26:33 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time?


You dont leave highsec and have never run anoms in dek. Yet you are calling the people who have figured out how to squeeze the most isk out of every activity a liar?



I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations...


so there you have it null escalations vs highsec safety incursions = same isk/hour, clearly not balanced huh, what were you using to make 110mil an hour?


I said that was not including the escalations, which I was selling on to people and I made a lot of ISK from that, I was making 110m an hour with a Chimera using fighters and a Shield fit Pulse Oracle just from the anom bounties in Cobalt Edge. At this point you will say doh you are using more than one character and say something about that, but I am comparing what I did as compared to an AFK Ishtar, which is efficient in baltec1's terms in that it allows the Goon do do other things while earning ISK.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#323 - 2015-04-28 12:29:22 UTC
Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#324 - 2015-04-28 12:30:04 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


An imbalance compared to what exactly? As far as I know incursions also exist in Lowsec, and Nullsec. So where exactly is this imbalance?


How many times must it be explained before "you people" admit that you don't care lol?

And ask yourself why low and null incursions go undone while high sec spawned "incursion communites" in which 5 bil+ fit pirate battleships are normal. Hint, it starts with C and ends with ONCORD.

This means low and null incursions are a non-issue. High sec incursions have to be compared to content people actually use (FW missions, lvl 5 missions. Lvl 4 missions in high, low and npc null, null anomalies , wormhoe anomalies and sigs etc).

Quote:

Also I didn't say anything about ganking them...think outside of the box friend.


Ganking is a form of disruption, you're the one talking about disruption.

Quote:

(also please don't include me with "you guys" thanks. I have never done a single incursion, and probably never will.)


Well, I've spent months at a time doing incursions and I'm primarily a PVE player (that means I know this stuff).

Why, exactly, would you deem to comment on something you have zero knowledge about again? That's about as smart as me (a guy, don't let the girl avatar fool you) describing for everyone here the experience of child birth to actual women when the entire extent of my knowledge is "I was in the hospital on a different floor when my wife gave birth" lol.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2015-04-28 12:30:15 UTC
Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?

Really?

Reaaaaaaaally?

Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#326 - 2015-04-28 12:31:21 UTC
sorry meant anoms, escalations bring a substantial increase in risk, baltecs numbers are right for a single char, obviously using 2 chars will bring you more isk, add 2 chars to your incursions and boom you've doubled your income, it works both ways

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#327 - 2015-04-28 12:31:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac.


First of all you incorrectly used the word easy, it takes effort, so people call for the nerfing of incursions as the easy option.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#328 - 2015-04-28 12:32:41 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac.


First of all you incorrectly used the word easy, it takes effort, so people call for the nerfing of incursions as the easy option.


Don't lie about what you said. You said that if "anyone takes the time" that they are apparent.

List some, then. Or admit that you lied.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#329 - 2015-04-28 12:34:12 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
sorry meant anoms, escalations bring a substantial increase in risk, baltecs numbers are right for a single char, obviously using 2 chars will bring you more isk, add 2 chars to your incursions and boom you've doubled your income, it works both ways


Thats where the fun disingenuous and lying comes to the fore, you see Mr Goon has one character spreading Goon joy around Eve while his ratting Ishtar is earning a lower level of ISK then he would get as a player paying full attention, the same attention level that an incursion runner is running.

Thats what he means by super efficient, its not what I mean by super efficient, but if you want to work your numbers based on 60m thats your issue?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#330 - 2015-04-28 12:35:34 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Still waiting on that supposedly easy list, Drac.


First of all you incorrectly used the word easy, it takes effort, so people call for the nerfing of incursions as the easy option.


Don't lie about what you said. You said that if "anyone takes the time" that they are apparent.

List some, then. Or admit that you lied.


You need to put time and effort into it, its not like rolling up to a retreiver with a Venture, scan it for tank then warp the catalysts in, but then again it shouldn't be like that should it?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#331 - 2015-04-28 12:35:39 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

Thats where the fun disingenuous and lying comes to the fore


Says the person trying to justify the obscenity that is highsec incursions by lying about how they're vulnerable to your imaginary ways of killing them?

That's so rich, mynnna has to look up to see it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#332 - 2015-04-28 12:35:41 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?

Really?

Reaaaaaaaally?

Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft


Its a more realistic comparison. If we go for top end income for both then we have 180-200 mil/hr from highsec incursions vs 90 mil/hr from anoms. You can almost get the same income from highsec level 3 missions as anoms...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#333 - 2015-04-28 12:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Dracvlad wrote:

You need to put time and effort into it, its not like rolling up to a retreiver with a Venture, scan it for tank then warp the catalysts in, but then again it shouldn't be like that should it?



You're spinning, and it's obvious to everyone here.

List some. I don't care how much "time" or "effort" you claim it has, list some.

[edit: Oh, and it's really funny to see someone who defends dec dodging with his every breath talk about time or effort, by the way.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#334 - 2015-04-28 12:41:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Wait, are we really comparing afktar income to a fleet operation of multiple billions of battleships?

Really?

Reaaaaaaaally?

Also, one can make 200m/hour clean in a mere C3 with yourself and an alt...incursions...pfffffft


Its a more realistic comparison. If we go for top end income for both then we have 180-200 mil/hr from highsec incursions vs 90 mil/hr from anoms. You can almost get the same income from highsec level 3 missions as anoms...



Perhaps but there are significantly more variables in the equation than merely "isk/hour".

It is an interesting debate, I'm not sure what side I sit on tbh since I'd not fly what the incursion runners do in high sec. Ironically, I would in a WH...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#335 - 2015-04-28 12:44:12 UTC
Can anyone else picture Dracvlad behind his keyboard, scrambling through Battleclinic, trying to find something plausible to claim as a way to kill incursion players?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
2Sonas1Cup
#336 - 2015-04-28 12:44:24 UTC
Guys I'd like to remind those of you arguing about interfering with incursions fleet that incursions are 5 years old, there is nothing new to discover about them or "new ways to interfere with them if you think about it", like someone said in this thread, many have tried and failed, even goons, and yes goons are the best.

But that's NOT the point of why incursions are bad, they are bad because they provide all the isks you can possibly need in this game easily and in the safety of highsec, while there's many other highsec activities and they don't even come close to making the same amount of isks.

Also all other people in null and wormholes living the risk and logistics and a whole lot of crap and still highsec c incursions provide a MUCH better and consistent income ANYTIME you want. Only people in c5 and c6 can make more isks with capitals but it is NOT consistent . And hell in don't even wanna mention how much work and effort you need to do it compared to highsec incursions that even a stupid 100 mil isk megathron 6 jumps from on jita is accepted in some group fleets, and can make more than people in capitals.

Highsec Incursions ARE broken.

Reduce payout, make them them a temporary thing (4 weeks on, 12 off), or just end them completely.

My Payouts suggestion for highsec:

VGs: 8 mil per site
Assaults: 15 mil per site
Hqs: 25 mil per site

LPs stay the same.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#337 - 2015-04-28 12:47:41 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time?


You dont leave highsec and have never run anoms in dek. Yet you are calling the people who have figured out how to squeeze the most isk out of every activity a liar?



I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations...


so there you have it null escalations vs highsec safety incursions = same isk/hour, clearly not balanced huh, what were you using to make 110mil an hour?


Isn't it always nice how these people make your points for you. It's autopiloting forum style lol.

But yea, that's the whole damn point, this guy claims to make a certain amount of isk in NULL (no security) space not understanding that what he is saying PROVES the imbalance he and his ilk are arguing doesn't exist lol (which is priceless).

(can't remember if it was him or another guy, probably someone else, but that guy claimed he was making 110 mil per hour in null...using a Carrier to rat....like Dracvlad he didn't understand that he was making my point, because you need a CAPITAL ship iun NULL sec to make 10 mil per hour LESS than the high sec incursion runner who may even be in a 150 mil logi ship lol)

This game has a 'risk reward scheme'. Based on it, you should NOT be able to make "no security space" levels of income while being protected by "High security space" mechanics, period. I don't know what CCP can do at this point, but given the track record (almost 3 years to fix the high sec lvl 5 bug that they knew about immediately after one of their patches caused the bug in the 1st place), I don't anticipate it will be anything any time soon.

Some of us are doing the best thing that can be done: Incursioning our asses off in high sec. This not only fills our grubby little null sec coffers, it denies those spots to high sec incursion runners who want to make that easy isk. Ironic to again see high sec types defending a status quo that screws them lol.
u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
Ore No More
#338 - 2015-04-28 12:48:02 UTC
Station traders make billion of ISK with 0% risk, unless they are sleepy and enter wrong digits. Should CCP stop their activities as well? Maybe add a random number generation when selling to make it more interesting. I am sure people can point out more activities that doesn't involve risk, or is that the real problem? Whoever wants more risk can go outside high sec. I dont see any of the current game mechanics ruining the game.
Infrequent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2015-04-28 12:48:23 UTC
This entire thread is a joke, yes let's nerf something that's constantly generating ample content for a large part of the eve player base while actually requiring more organization and coordination than a decent amount of the other content avenues in Eve. Have you actually looked into the organization required to make incursions run smoothly? Have you compared them to the early days when they first came around? Do you know of the risks, the requirements, the time investment required to get a good return? Do you know how easy it is to be alpha'd of the field in the sites that are actually worth the effort?

No, you don't, so you spew out a thread like this and people start jumping on the bandwagon. I'm still laughing at Solecist complaining about not being able to smartbomb out an incursion fleet (Despite the fact that you CAN you just actually have to plan it out beforehand, there's this glorious thing where you can reinforce the node for the system before you do something like that, bet you didn't think about that, which is why the gank failed in the first place).
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#340 - 2015-04-28 12:51:01 UTC
u3pog wrote:
Station traders make billion of ISK with 0% risk, unless they are sleepy and enter wrong digits. Should CCP stop their activities as well? Maybe add a random number generation when selling to make it more interesting. I am sure people can point out more activities that doesn't involve risk, or is that the real problem? Whoever wants more risk can go outside high sec. I dont see any of the current game mechanics ruining the game.


this has already been discussed please read back. trading does have risk.

why does everyone seem to think "falling asleep" is a genuine risk factor :/

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*