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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#281 - 2015-04-28 10:18:27 UTC
Kamala wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Why do you connect fun with income?
The fun should be shooting them and fleeting up ...
... not the amount of ISK you make.


Says who?

me. Ed Gruberman.
Solecist Project
#282 - 2015-04-28 10:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Kamala wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Why do you connect fun with income?
The fun should be shooting them and fleeting up ...
... not the amount of ISK you make.


Says who?
Those who understand how it works.
Satisfying greed is not connected to what "fun" is.
"Fun" a completely different thing.

Finding satisfaction in filling your pockets with space pixels is compensation.
Filling the wallet is secondary. What matters here is the perception of "being better",
or "filling the hole in yourself".

Related to "consumerism" btw.

You probably don't know ...
... but marketing isn't about selling you something ...
... it's about making you want something.

Companies don't sell you things ...
... they make you feel inadequate when you don't have them.

That's good marketing.

Some try to sell you "lifestyle" or "good feelings".
They make you believe that you miss out on something.
See also: Coca Cola.

Then there are those who want to sell you the idea of importance.
They make you believe that you are someone by owning something.
See also: Apple, Ikea, Car manufacturers, many others.


Even though you might wrongly *interpret* it as "fun" to fill your pockets with ISK,
or buying crap you don't actually need for your life, in the end it's nothing more but compensation.
Amassing wealth from greed is nothing else than the desire to be better than others ... see "feeling inadequate".


Usually people reject this instead of simply educating themselves about ...
... well ... themselves.


Glad I was able to answer your question.



I could write a few pages about this.
About amarrians.
Carebears.

But ... no thanks, not getting paid for it.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#283 - 2015-04-28 11:36:46 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:


Sorry, Baltec1, but that's bullshit. You guys are cutting through 800+ship fleets with a lot more DPS and tank on a regular basis, but a 40-ship fleet is a problem because of tanked battleships and logi support? Forget about suicide-ganking, you can't apply the same tactic to everything high-sec, and it's getting tired and lame anyway.

An Incursion Fleet is a 40-man bling fleet that is engaged in PVE combat with NPCs that can rip it apart if anything goes wrong with the logi reps or the tank cycles; how hard can it be to disrupt the fight and cause something to "go wrong"? Forget about your -10.0 suicide-gank alts, their sec status is limiting them (as intended), and they won't be able to get to where the action is. Go with neutral alts. And finally, they're organized as "incursion communities", don't tell me it's hard to insert spies to figure out where they're staging and what they're doing, and to disrupt from the inside.

They've managed to organize themselves enough to do the equivalent of 40-man pick-up raids in other MMO's, and are getting world boss purple-level rewards for it. It's admirable, but nowhere near the level of organization that even medium alliances have achieved. But expecting a simple suicide gank to be effective against them is like expecting an afk-cloaker to completely ruin your nullsec alliance.


Feel free to tell us how you would attack an incursion fleet.
Solecist Project
#284 - 2015-04-28 11:39:18 UTC
Well actually the secstatus and faction police is the least worry of them all.

Typical.

I too would like to know, just like baltec.

Let's wait for it .....

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#285 - 2015-04-28 11:43:01 UTC
Violet Hurst wrote:


Please try to stay with the skirmish, don't go back to the war.
LP don't contribute to ISK inflation. It doesn't matter if it's only 1000 pilots who achieve 20% of the current ISK influx. Risk from scripted entities (Sansha NPCs) has nothing to do with ISK springing.


We are not talking about isk inflation we are talking about individual income which is where highsec is out of whack.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#286 - 2015-04-28 11:43:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Well actually the secstatus and faction police is the least worry of them all.

Typical.

I too would like to know, just like baltec.

Let's wait for it .....


Call to nerf incursions because its more difficult than ganking Retrievers...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#287 - 2015-04-28 11:45:53 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Well actually the secstatus and faction police is the least worry of them all.

Typical.

I too would like to know, just like baltec.

Let's wait for it .....


Call to nerf incursions because its more difficult than ganking Retrievers...


No, they need dealing with because their reward is out of whack.
Solecist Project
#288 - 2015-04-28 11:46:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Violet Hurst wrote:


Please try to stay with the skirmish, don't go back to the war.
LP don't contribute to ISK inflation. It doesn't matter if it's only 1000 pilots who achieve 20% of the current ISK influx. Risk from scripted entities (Sansha NPCs) has nothing to do with ISK springing.


We are not talking about isk inflation we are talking about individual income which is where highsec is out of whack.

Sorry, but no where in history did nerfing highsec/buffing othersec ...
... actually make people leave it.

That has been tried and tried again and it never worked.


Your point, afaik, that people stay in highsec because of the money is invalid.

People stay in highsec, because it's safe and easy.

If you want your sheep to play in nullsec ...
... then ask for a feature that makes nullsec safer.

In the end you might regret it,
because you'll only attract worthless carebears anyway.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#289 - 2015-04-28 11:52:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Well actually the secstatus and faction police is the least worry of them all.

Typical.

I too would like to know, just like baltec.

Let's wait for it .....


Call to nerf incursions because its more difficult than ganking Retrievers...


No, they need dealing with because their reward is out of whack.


Call to nerf Incursions because it hurts their feelings that people who they despise can have fun and they find it too hard to stop them from having that fun, so the only way is to keep calling for it to be nerfed...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#290 - 2015-04-28 11:53:12 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:


We are not talking about isk inflation we are talking about individual income which is where highsec is out of whack.

Sorry, but no where in history did nerfing highsec/buffing othersec ...
... actually make people leave it.

[/quote]

Dont care about people with no interest in taking any risk. If CCP are going to make this new sov to work then they have to deal all areas of space. Fozziesov is going to require people to live in null to hold space so the need to make it worth living out there. Right now highsec offers better reward so that needs to change or fozziesov will fail.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#291 - 2015-04-28 11:53:19 UTC
[quote=Kaldi Tsukaya]Drop Concord protection in incursion systems.
That's a definite nope.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Solecist Project
#292 - 2015-04-28 11:53:47 UTC
lol typical carebearspeak.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#293 - 2015-04-28 11:55:29 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Call to nerf Incursions because it hurts their feelings that people who they despise can have fun and they find it too hard to stop them from having that fun, so the only way is to keep calling for it to be nerfed...


Why would I go to null sov when I can earn twice as much isk in highsec for very little risk and effort?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#294 - 2015-04-28 11:56:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
baltec1 wrote:
Dont care about people with no interest in taking any risk. If CCP are going to make this new sov to work then they have to deal all areas of space. Fozziesov is going to require people to live in null to hold space so the need to make it worth living out there. Right now highsec offers better reward so that needs to change or fozziesov will fail.


And here is the reason, they hate it that people can have fun in making themselves space rich and they cannot get at them without effort, its all about frustration...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Reiisha
#295 - 2015-04-28 11:59:05 UTC
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
considering they not long ago pretty much buffed them... but yeah they do pay too much for the risk involved


If they were a temporary thing, as they should (sanshas invasion), ok after we deal with them, its done/ dealt with.

But they stayed, and its been killing a major part of the game slowly but surely.
It was good when they started, but have them as a regular thing is just terrible.

CCP could have incursions as an event, every now and then sanshas try to invade highsec for like a month or so, then they stop for 3 or 4 months.

Or just lower their payouts to a balanced level as I said in the first post, instead of 250mil per hour, have them at around 100mil per hour.

And have VGs, assaults and HQs pay all the same. There is no need to have HQs paying more than VGs IMO (but thats a different story) could also boost scouts and give people an incentive to do them.


I'm wondering whether this is a hidden 'i want to gank incursion gangs' whine at this point.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#296 - 2015-04-28 12:00:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Call to nerf Incursions because it hurts their feelings that people who they despise can have fun and they find it too hard to stop them from having that fun, so the only way is to keep calling for it to be nerfed...


Why would I go to null sov when I can earn twice as much isk in highsec for very little risk and effort?


Because those figures are wrong and another poster already proved just how few people can efficiently run incursions.

But why are you getting so uptight, soon you will have the new structures that will enable you to have mission agants in null sec, that's great news for you guys isn't it?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#297 - 2015-04-28 12:01:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


And here is the reason, they hate it that people can have fun in making themselves space rich and they cannot get at them without effort, its all about frustration...


Try reading what people say before responding, I said nothing of the sort.
Solecist Project
#298 - 2015-04-28 12:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
baltec1 wrote:
Dont care about people with no interest in taking any risk. If CCP are going to make this new sov to work then they have to deal all areas of space. Fozziesov is going to require people to live in null to hold space so the need to make it worth living out there. Right now highsec offers better reward so that needs to change or fozziesov will fail.

But you are missing the point, baltec.

No matter the rewards, as soon as people see danger,
they will either dock up or simply not come at all.

I have stopped believing that the majority of nullseccers is any different
than the majority of highseccers.

You will have the best chances by promising people security.

I am not for or against null ...
... but the money approach doesn't work.

It caters to the greedy people ...
... and those don't want to lose.
Besides being crappy people to have around anyway.

If people in nullsec really cared about nullsec ...
... then they'd not care about rewards.

I've seen plenty of undone sites when I moved towards VFK ...
... with people docked up and not running them.

I would run them. Why?
Because I am not a coward and I don't care about relative income.

Think about it ... nerfing income anywhere else will yield nothing.
Buffing income in null equally will yield nothing.

The isk centric way of thinking is the wrong approach.
What you need is people who aren't greedy and/or cowards ...
... or providing CONCORD like security ...
... or a nationwide SRP.

I have been watching this for years now ...
... and people always ask for the same **** ...
... with the absolute same outcome every time.

But hey... why listen... just keep repeating the same thing ad infinitum...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#299 - 2015-04-28 12:04:00 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Because those figures are wrong and another poster already proved just how few people can efficiently run incursions.


Nobody has posted any facts here to back up your argument. Average income from anoms is 60 mil/hr, incursion income of 120 mil/hr is not unrealistic.
Dracvlad wrote:

But why are you getting so uptight, soon you will have the new structures that will enable you to have mission agants in null sec, that's great news for you guys isn't it?


We have no details yet on this system.
Solecist Project
#300 - 2015-04-28 12:04:25 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dont care about people with no interest in taking any risk. If CCP are going to make this new sov to work then they have to deal all areas of space. Fozziesov is going to require people to live in null to hold space so the need to make it worth living out there. Right now highsec offers better reward so that needs to change or fozziesov will fail.


And here is the reason, they hate it that people can have fun in making themselves space rich and they cannot get at them without effort, its all about frustration...

Compensation != fun.

You are nothing more than a hypocrite and hater.
You just hide it better than the rest.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia