Crime & Punishment

Did not say they are the same. I'm saying that a -10 operating in highsec is still having a better time than nullsec PVP.

Nullsec PVP - roams in particular but you can throw in small gang - was always "die in a fire". These days due to the resource and SP gaps, you may not get a kill before that inevitable end. Highsec ganking though - you still die in a fire, but you get a kill before you do. If that kill exceeds your loss, that's green for the KB. I've seen highsec PVP corps that have "Killboard padding" as one of their benefits. Lose some inties for some big fat freighter ganks, you know how this works.

No, what you said was...

In just about every thread when this comes up, most people on both sides of the argument express the view that the wardec system needs to be changed. Not everyone, but many have the view that the mechanic could be improved.

The -10 argument doesn't really have any place in this thread, since that is a separate thing. This one's about highsec wardec mechanics being broken, not gankers.



Ah, ok. My bad. Sorry. I must have misinterpreted this statement:

You see the highsec PVPer wants to travel in the same safety as the mission runner or the incursioner.

together with this one:

There's a fellow by the name of LieK Darz who operates around towards the Korsiki direction of The Forge region and he's negative ten along with an alt he uses and I have not seen it stop them.

It just seemed like you were saying highsec pvpers want to travel in the same safety as a mission runner or incursioner and used a -10 character as an example.

Kaarous is the one that dropped the -10 red herring I believe.

The only way it's broken is that it can be dodged.

Everything else is dependent on the defender. My risk is what they are willing to give me. If they aren't, that's their fault, not mine, and not the game's.

Theirs.

Absolutely.

Which makes the argument that 'lowsec pvp is real pvp' or that' nullsec pvp is real pvp' or that 'highsec pvp is not real pvp' kind of all pointless.

They are just different to each other. Not greater or lesser than one another.


Who said what first isn't relevant. The term, highsec pvper encompasses them all and was used previous to Kaarous's post.

It just isn't relevant to the thread, which is about wardec mechanics and instead has already descended into a discussion of the players/characters rather than the mechanics.

It may as well just be locked now. It's trench warfare already.

And that's the fault of the target still. The only defenseless people in New Eden are those who choose to be that way.




I didn't say it was. I said that "not defending myself" is the NPC corp option. If that's what you want, then you belong in an NPC corp, period. Player corps are for people who will deal with wars. NPC corps are for people who won't.

I don't think it would even be a problem then. It would simply cut out all the toxic newbie tax farm corps, and incentivize people to work together and defend themselves.

Combine that with changes that make player corps the optimal way to generate personal income and you have a system that both encourages conflict and incentivizes the defender to hold onto what he has, not just fold corps every time.

Hang on for a second. When did war start to have to be fair? When did competition for resources start to have to be fair? Are we playing EVE, or a game of tennis?

Sorry to hear you were unable to successfully start a corp in highsec. Without all the details it is hard to determine where you went wrong, but it is true that there are hundreds of successful corps in highsec and more created every month. That said, it is non-trivial (as it should be) to create a vibrant and functioning highsec corp in the competitive sandbox that is New Eden.

There is nothing wrong with this. There are very good game design reasons why highsec corps should be under pressure from other players. Unfortunately in this case you were not able to provide the diplomatic and/or military leadership needed to successfully navigate the hornet's nest of ne'er-do-wells looking for targets, or rivals wanting to defend their operations from competitors.

If there is anything wrong with the game, it is that there is no compelling technical reason for you to start a corp in highsec. I don't know what your goals were, but if you just wanted a social place for players to hang out while they learn the game, then the game forced you to assume a lot of risk and attention from PvPers and other rival corps, while providing you with little more than a shared hanger/wallet and a chat channel. If this was your goal then I have some sympathy for you and hope CCP gets around to implementing a "social corp" or another mechanism where you can have the social benefits of a corp without the added risk of wardecs.

If you were starting a serious industrial corp then the failure of your corp was working as intended. This game is designed so you have to defend your industrial operations. If you are going to extract benefit from the Eve economy, then you need to be at risk from your competitors, including to direct pressure from wardecs. A competitive corp is not entitled to opt-out of wardecs while dumping resources and industrial goods onto the market. Doing so would limit destruction which is bad for the war economy of Eve, and targets for other players which is bad for a vibrant PvP game.

There is nothing stopping you from trying again. Start a new corp and pay more attention to the risk of wardecs. Spend some effort developing plans and doctrines to deal with the threat, and work on making friends to help defend you or find mercenaries that will do that for a fee. Perhaps grow a little slower by spending more time on that and less on spamming invites in rookie systems just to get your numbers up quickly and you will have more success.