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[April] Ore, Mineral and Nullsec Mining Anomaly Revamp

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Lemming Alpha1dash1
Lemmings Online
#341 - 2015-04-19 12:19:28 UTC
I do not like mining

#bringbackgunmining

hint: https://zkillboard.com/group/463/losses/

Can you tell me how the ore composition (preferably Bistot) is tied into system security level Cool

Information is Ammunition,

War does not tolerate Ambiguities.

May you live in an interesting Empyrean age !

http://eve-radio.com/
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#342 - 2015-04-19 12:33:55 UTC
Lemming Alpha1dash1 wrote:
I do not like mining

#bringbackgunmining

hint: https://zkillboard.com/group/463/losses/

Can you tell me how the ore composition (preferably Bistot) is tied into system security level Cool

Check dotlan.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#343 - 2015-04-19 13:05:01 UTC
Querns wrote:
elitatwo wrote:

Nah. CCP Fozzie was a goon. The rest I will leave for your imagination to fill..

Actually, he was from PL. All the devs who were goons are no longer with the company.


...details..

Point being blobb-entity 2. And blobb requires the least amount of effort or intelligence.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#344 - 2015-04-19 13:28:13 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Querns wrote:
elitatwo wrote:

Nah. CCP Fozzie was a goon. The rest I will leave for your imagination to fill..

Actually, he was from PL. All the devs who were goons are no longer with the company.


...details..

Point being blobb-entity 2. And blobb requires the least amount of effort or intelligence.

So what you are saying is that intelligence is a poor indicator of performance at Eve: Online?

Because, shoot, that seems like an easy trade. Why be intelligent when you can be the best?

... wait, shit. My mother told me I was intelligent when I was a child. Does this mean I'm bad at Eve: Online?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#345 - 2015-04-19 15:04:39 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
And blobb requires the least amount of effort or intelligence.


Is an observation over a long period of time.

Querns wrote:
So what you are saying is that intelligence is a poor indicator of performance at Eve: Online?


Again, I am making an observation.

Querns wrote:
Because, shoot, that seems like an easy trade. Why be intelligent when you can be the best?


At?

Querns wrote:
... wait, shit. My mother told me I was intelligent when I was a child. Does this mean I'm bad at Eve: Online?


Telling 723475ß138417495767346378246926ß48184425624874 to press fone is not pvp.

But what has that to do with minerals in drama-sec?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#346 - 2015-04-19 20:27:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Querns
elitatwo wrote:

Querns wrote:
So what you are saying is that intelligence is a poor indicator of performance at Eve: Online?


Again, I am making an observation.

Sounds like an opinion to me.

elitatwo wrote:

Querns wrote:
Because, shoot, that seems like an easy trade. Why be intelligent when you can be the best?


At?

The game.

elitatwo wrote:

But what has that to do with minerals in drama-sec?

You're the one that brought up. I was perfectly content to discuss this topic without bringing up alliance affiliation; don't blame me when you and others lower the level of discussion in this manner.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2015-04-19 20:34:50 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
*Incoherent angry cat noises*


Querns wrote:
*repeated predictably failing attempts to use rationality against the irrational, while slowly sinking towards his level*


Don't make me get out the squirt bottle. Can we at least try and steer this conversation back to flinging **** at each other based on the actual topic?

I won't even bother to hold out hope for any sort of civil discussion on the topic.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#348 - 2015-04-19 20:51:16 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
*Incoherent angry cat noises*


Querns wrote:
*repeated predictably failing attempts to use rationality against the irrational, while slowly sinking towards his level*


Don't make me get out the squirt bottle. Can we at least try and steer this conversation back to flinging **** at each other based on the actual topic?

I won't even bother to hold out hope for any sort of civil discussion on the topic.

Sinking? We've been there for several pages now. People can't help but tinfoil it up, and I can't help but to play around in said tinfoil.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#349 - 2015-04-19 20:54:12 UTC
It's like, woah, I like to think I'm immune to the stuff. Oh yeah.

But, it's closer to the truth, to say that I can't get enough.

Eventually, I'll have to face it.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#350 - 2015-04-19 20:59:54 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Lim Yoona wrote:

This is never gonna happen as long as afk cloaking is a thing. Any system with a hint of industry upgrade/index instantly draws afk cloakers and blops droppers. How about a covert cyno jammer?

I believe you wish to read the Gates & Observatories thread and watch the fanfest presentation.


Indeed. Smile

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#351 - 2015-04-19 21:37:49 UTC
You know it's a slow day when the mineral composition bread turns into a blob or not to blob debate/turdflinging
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#352 - 2015-04-19 22:31:55 UTC
Actually, I think there is already sufficient ore in null sec for self-sufficiency. Has been for several years now. What there is NOT in null sec, is any good reason to spend the time/effort to mine it all. Plenty of players in null sec, just not many miners - I've rarely seen an empty belt in null sec, while they are a common sight in high sec. As others have stated, a null sec player can make much more ISK/hr doing many other things, and with less risk.

So, the only real reason why high sec produces more trit and other low-end minerals is because there are simply more players mining in high sec - the reward/risk payoff is comparable to, or better than, other high sec activities. Doesn't really matter how you tweak the high:null ore/mineral ratios, you'll still find players mining all day in high sec.

Perhaps, then, to get more mining done in null sec, what really needs to happen is for all other null sec sources of ISK farming to be nerfed, across the board, until they have a comparable or lower ISK/hr payoff than null sec mining. This includes reducing the rewards on belt ratting, mission running, exploration, etc.

Sure, it would be unpopular, at first, and the tears would flow, along with the screams (nothing new about that, but, hey, adapt or go play WoW, right?). But, I don't think null sec self-sufficiency is ever going to be reached by just continuing to tweak the minerals in and processing of null sec ore, or by trying to link sov in some way to mining. Self-sufficiency requires more players to mine. More players mining in null sec will only happen if there isn't anything easier and more profitable for them to do to farm ISK.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#353 - 2015-04-20 01:03:26 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Actually, I think there is already sufficient ore in null sec for self-sufficiency. Has been for several years now. What there is NOT in null sec, is any good reason to spend the time/effort to mine it all. Plenty of players in null sec, just not many miners - I've rarely seen an empty belt in null sec, while they are a common sight in high sec. As others have stated, a null sec player can make much more ISK/hr doing many other things, and with less risk.

So, the only real reason why high sec produces more trit and other low-end minerals is because there are simply more players mining in high sec - the reward/risk payoff is comparable to, or better than, other high sec activities. Doesn't really matter how you tweak the high:null ore/mineral ratios, you'll still find players mining all day in high sec.

Perhaps, then, to get more mining done in null sec, what really needs to happen is for all other null sec sources of ISK farming to be nerfed, across the board, until they have a comparable or lower ISK/hr payoff than null sec mining. This includes reducing the rewards on belt ratting, mission running, exploration, etc.

Sure, it would be unpopular, at first, and the tears would flow, along with the screams (nothing new about that, but, hey, adapt or go play WoW, right?). But, I don't think null sec self-sufficiency is ever going to be reached by just continuing to tweak the minerals in and processing of null sec ore, or by trying to link sov in some way to mining. Self-sufficiency requires more players to mine. More players mining in null sec will only happen if there isn't anything easier and more profitable for them to do to farm ISK.

This won't work without corresponding nerfs to lowsec, highsec, and w-space isk making as well.

Also, there's not enough ore for self-sufficiency in nullsec static belts. Hell, there is no arkonor in Deklein at all, and only 6 systems spawn Bistot.

See some of my other posts for more debunking of this ridiculous idea that static belts will cut it for nullsec self-sufficiency.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#354 - 2015-04-20 01:18:02 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Actually, I think there is already sufficient ore in null sec for self-sufficiency. Has been for several years now. What there is NOT in null sec, is any good reason to spend the time/effort to mine it all. Plenty of players in null sec, just not many miners - I've rarely seen an empty belt in null sec, while they are a common sight in high sec. As others have stated, a null sec player can make much more ISK/hr doing many other things, and with less risk.

So, the only real reason why high sec produces more trit and other low-end minerals is because there are simply more players mining in high sec - the reward/risk payoff is comparable to, or better than, other high sec activities. Doesn't really matter how you tweak the high:null ore/mineral ratios, you'll still find players mining all day in high sec.

Perhaps, then, to get more mining done in null sec, what really needs to happen is for all other null sec sources of ISK farming to be nerfed, across the board, until they have a comparable or lower ISK/hr payoff than null sec mining. This includes reducing the rewards on belt ratting, mission running, exploration, etc.

Sure, it would be unpopular, at first, and the tears would flow, along with the screams (nothing new about that, but, hey, adapt or go play WoW, right?). But, I don't think null sec self-sufficiency is ever going to be reached by just continuing to tweak the minerals in and processing of null sec ore, or by trying to link sov in some way to mining. Self-sufficiency requires more players to mine. More players mining in null sec will only happen if there isn't anything easier and more profitable for them to do to farm ISK.
(Preface for the sarcasm challenged: this is sarcasm)

Or we could change it by removing ore from highsec.

After all, centuries of ore being stripped from the most secure regions ought to have left it completely barren of anything resembling a usable mineral.

It makes perfect sense that raw material should come from the less exhausted regions of space. Rocks don't magically respawn after all. Highsec would have only the rare ore anomaly from elliptical asteroid paths, lowsec would have belts in size to highsec's today but with lowsec ores, and nullsec would have unspoiled belts teeming with high end ores.

It is only natural that raw material flow from the less developed sections to the more developed sections. After all, you don't see an iron mine in Manhattan, do you?

Sure, it would be unpopular, at first, and the tears would flow, along with the screams (nothing new about that, but, hey, adapt or go play WoW, right?). But it is for the long term economic good of the game. Nullsec players have higher retention rates than highsec players, and solo highsec miners have the worst retention rate of everyone, so forcing highsec miners into group activities in null is advisable. More players mining in null sec will only happen if there isn't anything easier to do like farm isk in Highsec.

*End Sarcasm*

If Ratting with a carrier or running DED sites dropped me to 40 mil tomorrow, I and the vast majority of people in nullsec who make their money in nullsec would say "**** it" and quit. Completely serious.
LTC Vuvovich
Old-Timers Department
GF Company
#355 - 2015-04-20 01:21:10 UTC
Lets face it peeps, CCP is out of control plain and simple. This game has gone to **** ever since CCP ran off all the RMT's. I liked it better when RMT's were in charge... they didnt CHANGE things every 3 months or less. They simply CHARGED more.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#356 - 2015-04-20 01:27:13 UTC
LTC Vuvovich wrote:
Lets face it peeps, CCP is out of control plain and simple. This game has gone to **** ever since CCP ran off all the RMT's. I liked it better when RMT's were in charge... they didnt CHANGE things every 3 months or less. They simply CHARGED more.

7/10
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#357 - 2015-04-20 01:33:53 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
If Ratting with a carrier or running DED sites dropped me to 40 mil tomorrow, I and the vast majority of people in nullsec who make their money in nullsec would say "**** it" and quit. Completely serious.

lol...actually, you should have enclosed this statement in your "sarcasm" block, too.

Null sec players who own cap/supercap assets are the least likely to ever quit the game, despite all posing and threats to the contrary. They simply have invested too much of their time already into the game to just give it up and go play WoT or SWTOR, regardless of what changes are ever made by CCP. They will be the ones playing until the bitter end, until the last game server is permanently shut off, whenever in the hopefully far off future that may be.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#358 - 2015-04-20 01:44:18 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
If Ratting with a carrier or running DED sites dropped me to 40 mil tomorrow, I and the vast majority of people in nullsec who make their money in nullsec would say "**** it" and quit. Completely serious.

lol...actually, you should have enclosed this statement in your "sarcasm" block, too.

Null sec players who own cap/supercap assets are the least likely to ever quit the game, despite all posing and threats to the contrary. They simply have invested too much of their time already into the game to just give it up and go play WoT or SWTOR, regardless of what changes are ever made by CCP. They will be the ones playing until the bitter end, until the last game server is permanently shut off, whenever in the hopefully far off future that may be.

Supercaps, maybe, but caps? Caps are a dime a dozen. No one is going to stay subbed just because they have a podunk 2b isk carrier farting around in their hangar.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#359 - 2015-04-20 01:44:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Sizeof Void wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
If Ratting with a carrier or running DED sites dropped me to 40 mil tomorrow, I and the vast majority of people in nullsec who make their money in nullsec would say "**** it" and quit. Completely serious.

lol...actually, you should have enclosed this statement in your "sarcasm" block, too.

Null sec players who own cap/supercap assets are the least likely to ever quit the game, despite all posing and threats to the contrary. They simply have invested too much of their time already into the game to just give it up and go play WoT or SWTOR, regardless of what changes are ever made by CCP. They will be the ones playing until the bitter end, until the last game server is permanently shut off, whenever in the hopefully far off future that may be.


Most long term players actually have significant gaps in their play time. Lots of people I know of have just dropped the game for months when it gets boring, then come pick it back up later when a new release makes things a bit more interesting.

We enjoy fighting in nullsec, but we also need something to fight over.

Fighting over space that literally makes less than highsec mission running? No thanks. Even under Fozziesov with no changes, lots of alliances are deciding to go the no sov NPC base route because the benefits of holding sov is not matching up to the bother of constantly defending it from randoms.

If space suddenly was worth less than highsec? Only the very most diehard PvP'r would want to fight over it. And guess what, those are the ones who moved to NPC sov in the first place.
LTC Vuvovich
Old-Timers Department
GF Company
#360 - 2015-04-20 01:53:27 UTC
Okay this is definitely whats up... our little 'sandbox' universe has become a box of 'quicksand'...

: )