Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I just don't think this is the case, at least certainly no more than it ever was under old Sov. Defenders need to control a grid for a fraction of the time of attackers, defenders have all of their assets and reinforcements close-by by default, defenders have access to all of their structures and structure based bonuses, and attackers have to spend a good amount of time (at least for active space) actually capturing in order to flip sov instead of the current "roll through with a Dread/Titan/Carrier ball and done in 10 minutes" system.

I don't think the intent has *ever* been to allow a purely Industrial corp to hold Sov. That's simply unrealistic unless they have someone defending them. This has never been the case and I honestly hope it never is because if an Indy corp can hold Sov independently then it either means it's worthless or the system is so exploitable that any corp at all can hold Sov with little to no risk.

Really I'm just not seeing your problem with the Sov system here. Defenders need to defend their space, and do so effectively. No where does this allow some 15-20 man griefer corp to come in and knock it all over, at least unless your Alliance is so inactive that it has fewer than 20 active members, in which case I refer you to what happened to Atlas Alliance.

For a start, because they need to actually successfully take the system with those T1 ships.

Beyond that, it's the same way that a group of T1 bare-bones fit Catalysis ganking a Freighter with billions in loot is fair, by which I mean to say it isn't, you're supposed to avoid having that happen to you. The same way you're supposed to defend your space when people attack it.

I do sort of see what you mean about the value of an attacking fleet of Dreads and Titans vs the value of a POS or TCU or whatever, but that only really matters if the blob is actually at risk of dying and most of the time it's really not. Right now you *can* structure grind with a fleet of Oracles and T1 Logi, it just takes a long time. That's the same T1 fleet that you're complaining about here, and it's just as capable of taking your stuff as it is now, at least if you don't oppose it. The value of the Titans and Dreads is that they're hard to kill and they blap through the Structure's timer very very quickly when unopposed.

Personally I'd say the T1 cruiser fleet is more fair, not less.

I don't think the new sov system will change much for the sov. The null sec alliances have there assets in place and can defend there sov no matter what type of system ccp throws at them. The only difference i see is there might be that they might get more concentrated to make defense easier for them selves.

If the null alliances kind of pull back and concentrate that might open up some areas for a smaller alliance to get take sov. Also it might change that renters will now hold sov since they will be living in the systems. And the larger alliance Allows them to be there and have blue status. I really don't see sov map changing other then trols doing the trolcepter idea just to get fights.

If an actuall alliance wants to take sov they will still most likely still work with existing sov meta game to get and keep it.

To prevent grind all day, I would like to see the node being hacked going in to reinforcement if hacked unsuccesful. Just for 10-20min, which would give the defenders more time to organize.
At the same time giving a "hacking-fatigue" to the node, so it is more defendable if they keep "spamming" it.

Defenders already have a bonus to flipping the structures/nodes back, and if your occupancy metrics are high you have 3-40 minutes from the time the hack starts which should be plenty, especially if there are actually people in those systems at prime-time to sound the alarm, then on top of that for Sov structures you have the node minigame which you know is coming.

Really not needed, and that "hacking-fatigue" thing could be easily abused by just hacking your own stuff with an alt and then flipping it back quickly.

I think renting is going to be a lot less feasible in this version of Sov, because renters don't generally contribute to defense and the Alliance that holds the sov needs to be able to defend it in this system. Groups might be able to work something out with corps that are renters being part of the alliance but that's likely to create op-sec issues if nothing else. CFC have already announced that they're closing down their renter program.

It's possible the larger alliances will try to extort the smaller ones but at the moment that's just speculation. If they don't want the sov and they can't afford to just take space they're not using then where's the credibility of the threat? They can certainly harass and fight the defenders but even then it's still no worse than the current system.

At the end of the day there's always going to be a meta-game element to Sov in Eve and IMO that's fine. The players get the meta-game they create for themselves, if you want to overthrow the current meta-game then figure out a way to do it as a player.

Yupp, YEARS and BILLIONS/TRILLIONS in isk spent is reduced to nothing because 'lets make EVE, ALL of EVE available to every new noob'.

Also to everyone making the mistake... it's The Emperium, not CFC.

As long as you still know what we're talking about it's the CFC, and CFC is quicker to say

Also, regarding trillions being reduced to nothing, what do you think B-R5RB was? At the end of the day both were the result of player decisions. There's nothing forcing this particular course of action, but it's a decent move while people wait and see what's going to happen next.

Oh and to clarify, apparently PBLRD space is going to be re-allocated to other CFC members and the renters are being offered safe evac and time to tear down and move out, or the opportunity to app to CFC alliances.



I agree with pretty much all of this, especially the last bit.

I figure there will be a month or more of "OMG Sov trolling is so hilarious! LOLOLOLOL!!! " and then the people who can't cut it will stop being targets, the people who can will find a way to make not actually attacking seriously either just as fun for them as it is for the attackers or more boring/annoying for the attackers than it is for the defenders. After all fights are fun and the defenders win if they have fun, then all they need to do is either annoy the attackers to death or provoke them into bringing a real fight instead of troll-cruisers (or whatever).

The one thing I don't think it will do is play out like Faction Warfare, since FW doesn't have vulnerability timers or people actively living in every system for every hour the 'plexes are vulnerable. It may start out looking similar, and I think CCP have taken the best bits of FW mechanics, but I don't think it'll play out like FWar does.

Basically yeah.

You need a new approach that adapts to the sov laser in order to efficiently weaponize boredom.

Disclaimer : I am not affiliated with any power bloc therefore this is not a biased post. Also this is my main and not an alt Smile However I have been playing eve for many years and have spent a silly amount of time in nullsec. Just thought i would get that in there before the alt, troll, grr goons, grrr n3, grrr whatever posts come....

Anyway, I have been thinking about the fozziesov thing for sometime, much like many others i guess. The recent changes with jump fatigue etc have been good, and i support that, it was needed. The lets hold lots of space, make billions renting lots of regions and not even living in it, just because you could throw 100 supers at someone in minutes was becoming a joke. I still don't think one alliance should be able to hold one full region to be honest and i would like to see the verite map changed to be sov only map not a influence map as it can wrongly give information about how much space one owns. But i digress...Sorry...

On to fozziesov, great idea as a concept, will make more fights local, will make people think a little more about the space they want to own and defend, especially for the larger alliances. Now i assumed (and maybe wrongly) that this was also to let the little guys get a chance to harass and even hold sov. Which would be great! However my concern is how really easy it is, meaning the time it takes to cause disruption.

We seem to have gone from one extreme to the other. Now again you may thing hey well that helps the little guys, but does it? My worry is the purposeful setting up of large newbie alliances to effectively cause havoc in nullsec just to create content. This isn't just about PL horde, although its convienient that a group that was so elitist all of a sudden decided to create a newb alliance, but also the likes of Brave and Goons. Which can effectively sum up 100,200,300+ gangs just to roam nullsec and disrupt lots of systems in a night, then go back again the next night and the next. The smaller alliances have literally no chance at all, they can compete with that may pilots 'constantly' roaming about, disrupting everything in 20 minutes. Surely fozzie must of thought of this and again just as the high sec poco debacle, they create a game that obviously favours Goons, and Brave and now PL Horde. I worry this will just have the complete opposite effect where no one dares live, or invest in nullsec because of the constant harassment. For example you think about increasing mining yield but who in the right mind is going to have mining sessions with 300+ people coming about constantly? I think this could actually end up destroying nullsec
I always wonder if CCP every look at the bigger picture rather than this inward thinking...