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[Discussion] Entosis Link Tactics and Ship Balance Part 2

First post First post First post
Author
Troyd23
Repercussus
#21 - 2015-04-01 23:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Troyd23
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Troyd23 wrote:
Quote:
Capital ships have a role bonus that increases the module cycle time by 5x


Forgive me here,

Considering you're a flying brick with this active and can't receive remote assistance. What is the advantage of having a longer entosis cycle time? Is this the new 10 min siege cycle :)


It isn't an advantage, it's a penalty. In this case the idea is that a Capital has to be without remote assistance for longer to make up for the fact that capitals are very hard to kill and there's no restriction on throwing a Carrier into Triage or a Dread into Siege Mode while you're using an Entosis Link.


That's fair, I guess the stock terminology "Role Bonus" implies an advantage. (Which it typically does)

So basically, this will discourage the use of capitals for structure warfare. This continues to give weight and reason for them to be used as serious fleet support ships in the future meta.
Cade Windstalker
#22 - 2015-04-01 23:20:18 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Albert Madullier wrote:
so just leave it offline until your ceptor reaches the target system then online it

And then die when anything shows up.


most allliances aren't that clever, they'll sit there and ping + have 1hr form up and by that time the ceptor has done its job


Any Alliance that is that lacking in 'cleverness' deserves to lose their space.

Anyone else remember the epic Fail-scade that was Atlas?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2015-04-01 23:21:21 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Albert Madullier wrote:
so just leave it offline until your ceptor reaches the target system then online it

And then die when anything shows up.


most allliances aren't that clever, they'll sit there and ping + have 1hr form up and by that time the ceptor has done its job

sounds like thats their own problem.
Coelomate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2015-04-01 23:21:43 UTC
These changes look great!

Love,

~Coelomate

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#25 - 2015-04-01 23:22:38 UTC
Maybe instead of "T1 Entosis link " and "T2 Entosis link " you should call them "Small Entosis link" and "Large Entosis link".
Given the range, power and energy use, that would better fit what you are doing.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#26 - 2015-04-01 23:25:44 UTC
Troyd23 wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Troyd23 wrote:
Quote:
Capital ships have a role bonus that increases the module cycle time by 5x


Forgive me here,

Considering you're a flying brick with this active and can't receive remote assistance. What is the advantage of having a longer entosis cycle time? Is this the new 10 min siege cycle :)


It isn't an advantage, it's a penalty. In this case the idea is that a Capital has to be without remote assistance for longer to make up for the fact that capitals are very hard to kill and there's no restriction on throwing a Carrier into Triage or a Dread into Siege Mode while you're using an Entosis Link.


That's fair, I guess the stock terminology "Role Bonus" implies an advantage. (Which it typically does)

So basically, this will discourage the use of capitals for structure warfare. This continues to give weight and reason for them to be used as serious fleet support ships in the future meta.

It will discourage capital use for Entosis links. They can still be used to kill those pesky battleships. You know, the ones that are killing your cruisers that have your T2 Entosis lings fitted.

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Anthar Thebess
#27 - 2015-04-01 23:27:33 UTC
Can we make dedicated fuel for this module.
I know - strontium is there , but the need of making different fuel and shipping it is also something you need to take into consideration.

Strontium is already used in carrier triage , dread siege, towers so every one have stacked it everywhere.

My suggestion add BPO for this fuel that will combine :
- PI 1 materials
- Moon Gases / some R8 materials?
- Strontium

It can be heavy as stront , but adding additional level of logistics can be very interesting.

For example.
2 Forces fight over the system.

Both are running low on strontium.

Side A, needs to go 10j to get supply from the station.
Local's just go to first tower in the system and pull some strontium out.

If we have dedicated fuel then both sides needs to transport it from some distant locations - so gate camps will be also important.


What about stalemate? So 2 links activated at the same time , 1 offensive ( Loki) 1 defensive ( archon).

Cade Windstalker
#28 - 2015-04-01 23:29:52 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Maybe instead of "T1 Entosis link " and "T2 Entosis link " you should call them "Small Entosis link" and "Large Entosis link".
Given the range, power and energy use, that would better fit what you are doing.


Agreed that this makes a bit more sense to me, though there is also potential for confusion with Small and Large Tractor Beams, the latter of which are Capital modules. That said the T1/T2 distinction seems to fit even worse so...
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2015-04-01 23:31:45 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
What about stalemate? So 2 links activated at the same time , 1 offensive ( Loki) 1 defensive ( archon).

So, whats your question?
Valtaric
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#30 - 2015-04-01 23:32:03 UTC
Will it be possible to MJD with an entosis link active?
Cade Windstalker
#31 - 2015-04-01 23:32:30 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Can we make dedicated fuel for this module.
I know - strontium is there , but the need of making different fuel and shipping it is also something you need to take into consideration.

Strontium is already used in carrier triage , dread siege, towers so every one have stacked it everywhere.

My suggestion add BPO for this fuel that will combine :
- PI 1 materials
- Moon Gases / some R8 materials?
- Strontium

It can be heavy as stront , but adding additional level of logistics can be very interesting.

For example.
2 Forces fight over the system.

Both are running low on strontium.

Side A, needs to go 10j to get supply from the station.
Local's just go to first tower in the system and pull some strontium out.

If we have dedicated fuel then both sides needs to transport it from some distant locations - so gate camps will be also important.


What about stalemate? So 2 links activated at the same time , 1 offensive ( Loki) 1 defensive ( archon).



I see where you're coming from, but I think the end result would just be stockpiling this "Element X Fuel" everywhere too, as a defensive measure.

I think the point of the Strontium is to make it harder for an attacker who can't actually dislodge the defender to keep pressing their attack. The idea being that if the attacker can't force a win the defender deserves the successful defense. A sort of "ties go to the defender" setup.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#32 - 2015-04-01 23:33:02 UTC
I would suggest that the home advantage of having your stront a single warp away instead of 10-20 jps is a good one
as for the mass changes..... I think I really like this!
same for the PG and CPU requirements

I still think CCP ought to consider allowing entosis users to recieve cap transfer, and e-support

but these seem to be looking more sensible now, Fozzie - good job!

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Cade Windstalker
#33 - 2015-04-01 23:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Valtaric wrote:
Will it be possible to MJD with an entosis link active?


This was actually answered in the previous thread. Yes, but if you lose lock your cycle keeps going with all associated penalties for no capture progress (and a MJD breaks all of your current target locks when it successfully goes off)
Valtaric
Black Omega Security
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#34 - 2015-04-01 23:34:57 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Valtaric wrote:
Will it be possible to MJD with an entosis link active?


This was actually answered in the previous thread. Yes, but if you lose lock your cycle keeps going with all associated penalties (and a MJD breaks all of your current target locks when it successfully goes off)


MJD doesn't break your locks. Your locks only break if you MJD out of range. But that's good to know.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#35 - 2015-04-01 23:35:30 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
(and a MJD breaks all of your current target locks when it successfully goes off)

iirc it doesnt break locks unless you are out of lock range, it doesnt break locks that are being used on you either.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#36 - 2015-04-01 23:41:57 UTC
Good change.

The Tears Must Flow

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#37 - 2015-04-01 23:42:37 UTC
I'm not sure I understand the entire capture timer thing.
Lets say I fly up to a structure, activate my E-link. It cycles once, then starts its second cycle. 1.5 minutes into that second cycle a SB shows up and makes me go boom.
There is now 1.5 minutes on the capture timer? What happens to that timer if nothing is done by anyone for the next week? Does that 1.5 minutes persist until someone uses another E-link? Does it decay back toward zero, or what?
I assume if the enemy now uses a E-link on the structure, it will drive the timer down?
Can everyone see how much time is on the capture timer? Anything special needed to see the timer?

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#38 - 2015-04-01 23:50:41 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Maybe instead of "T1 Entosis link " and "T2 Entosis link " you should call them "Small Entosis link" and "Large Entosis link".
Given the range, power and energy use, that would better fit what you are doing.


yeah I like the sounds of that better... heck why not have a medium version too that fits well on crusiers/bc and the large version is meant for battleships.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Cade Windstalker
#39 - 2015-04-02 00:11:32 UTC
So, the more I look at these changes the more I think that part of the intent is that you not be really able to successfully capture against a large force while they're still on grid, at least not easily. As Fozzie has stated, the side that captures should be the side that holds the grid. So from the sound of things that's what you're going to have to do to progress the capture timer.

This should have a rather interesting effect on the 30-40 minute timers/sites where the defenders and attackers both have ample time to shift forces around and reinforce over the course of a single fight, let alone the larger contest for the various nodes.
Dominionix
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2015-04-02 00:13:14 UTC
I'm not sure if I've missed this, but I couldn't see it in this post anywhere so I'll ask:

Has there been a decision as to whether or not activation of the entosis module against structures will generate notifications for the defending alliance?