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Intaki Liberation

Author
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#181 - 2015-04-02 21:15:54 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Rinai Vero wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
I said liberate, not consolidate. We want to be free of them, not part of you.....


Ohhh. I assumed there was something in this for us. ;)


Death to the Federation?


You have me confused with the short, shouty, Caldari.


Aw c'mon, who doesn't like a little bit of 'Death to the Federation' now and then?
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2015-04-02 22:12:48 UTC
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
I understand that. Anyways, I will again state as I have many times I do not try to represent the Intaki, yet call support for them. They already have said enough (most of them at least) that they at least want better conditions.

I want better conditions too, when are the Caldari going to come and liberate my people from the oppression of the Amarrian government?


When the Minmatar stop allying themselves with the Gallente.

How about you all just stop fighting and ally everyone to the Rightful ones.

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Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#183 - 2015-04-02 22:16:17 UTC
Luna Hanaya wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Dailar Toralen wrote:
I understand that. Anyways, I will again state as I have many times I do not try to represent the Intaki, yet call support for them. They already have said enough (most of them at least) that they at least want better conditions.

I want better conditions too, when are the Caldari going to come and liberate my people from the oppression of the Amarrian government?


When the Minmatar stop allying themselves with the Gallente.

How about you all just stop fighting and ally everyone to the Rightful ones.

AKA, the Minmatar.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#184 - 2015-04-03 22:31:51 UTC
Okay, all these noise generators aside, lets return to the topic.

The only ones, who can liberate Intaki from gallentean occupation are Intaki themselves. Gallente want to keep them under their heel. We just want their system just like any other system that gallente has thrown into the war they started to get our Black Rise. Because if we take their systems, we will create buffer space and send them back into Villore. We will say we are fighting for the good of Intaki, and it may be true, but we don't fight their war. We are fighting our, just to capture just a system.

To liberate Intaki can only the Syndicate. They have started it almost like we started our State. All they need now, is their own Intaki Tibus Heth, who will lead armada from the Syndicate into Placid and Intaki, will capture the planet and cleanse it from all gallentean occupants, will proclaim souvereignity, and will separate the system from the Federation, and, of course, sign peace treaty with us, so the system won't have any more reason to stay in warzone borders.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#185 - 2015-04-03 23:25:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrel Toov
Diana Kim wrote:
Okay, all these noise generators aside, lets return to the topic.

The only ones, who can liberate Intaki from gallentean occupation are Intaki themselves. Gallente want to keep them under their heel. We just want their system just like any other system that gallente has thrown into the war they started to get our Black Rise. Because if we take their systems, we will create buffer space and send them back into Villore. We will say we are fighting for the good of Intaki, and it may be true, but we don't fight their war. We are fighting our, just to capture just a system.

To liberate Intaki can only the Syndicate. They have started it almost like we started our State. All they need now, is their own Intaki Tibus Heth, who will lead armada from the Syndicate into Placid and Intaki, will capture the planet and cleanse it from all gallentean occupants, will proclaim souvereignity, and will separate the system from the Federation, and, of course, sign peace treaty with us, so the system won't have any more reason to stay in warzone borders.

You had me kinda' grudgingly agreeing with your assessment up till the "Intaki Heath" bit. Nobody needs a Tibus Heath of any nationality.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Dailar Toralen
Toralen Industries
#186 - 2015-04-04 02:06:14 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Okay, all these noise generators aside, lets return to the topic.

The only ones, who can liberate Intaki from gallentean occupation are Intaki themselves. Gallente want to keep them under their heel. We just want their system just like any other system that gallente has thrown into the war they started to get our Black Rise. Because if we take their systems, we will create buffer space and send them back into Villore. We will say we are fighting for the good of Intaki, and it may be true, but we don't fight their war. We are fighting our, just to capture just a system.

To liberate Intaki can only the Syndicate. They have started it almost like we started our State. All they need now, is their own Intaki Tibus Heth, who will lead armada from the Syndicate into Placid and Intaki, will capture the planet and cleanse it from all gallentean occupants, will proclaim souvereignity, and will separate the system from the Federation, and, of course, sign peace treaty with us, so the system won't have any more reason to stay in warzone borders.


I completely and totally agree with this. Perhaps we could support the Syndicate?

We are Toralen Industries. It doesn't matter if you fight for money, idealogies, or because it's what you are good at and it doesn't matter if you fight threw trade, combat, or diplomacy. No matter what or how you fight, there's a place for you.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#187 - 2015-04-04 07:41:26 UTC
Dailar Toralen wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Okay, all these noise generators aside, lets return to the topic.

The only ones, who can liberate Intaki from gallentean occupation are Intaki themselves. Gallente want to keep them under their heel. We just want their system just like any other system that gallente has thrown into the war they started to get our Black Rise. Because if we take their systems, we will create buffer space and send them back into Villore. We will say we are fighting for the good of Intaki, and it may be true, but we don't fight their war. We are fighting our, just to capture just a system.

To liberate Intaki can only the Syndicate. They have started it almost like we started our State. All they need now, is their own Intaki Tibus Heth, who will lead armada from the Syndicate into Placid and Intaki, will capture the planet and cleanse it from all gallentean occupants, will proclaim souvereignity, and will separate the system from the Federation, and, of course, sign peace treaty with us, so the system won't have any more reason to stay in warzone borders.


I completely and totally agree with this. Perhaps we could support the Syndicate?

Actually, it is they who should support us, because it is us, who wages war against the Federation already. When the Federation will be destroyed, our both Luminaire and Intaki home systems will be liberated from gallentean occupants and without federal charter gallenteans won't have reasons anymore to attack our planets.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#188 - 2015-04-04 09:29:11 UTC
The Federation forbids - And to my understanding, it is actively enforced - The settlement of planets by the Intaki Syndicate, which therefore has an extremely low population ceiling in pan-cluster terms. It would take a logistical miracle for them to be able to capture or occupy any Federation systems at all.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#189 - 2015-04-04 14:36:44 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
The Federation forbids - And to my understanding, it is actively enforced - The settlement of planets by the Intaki Syndicate, which therefore has an extremely low population ceiling in pan-cluster terms. It would take a logistical miracle for them to be able to capture or occupy any Federation systems at all.

As far as I understand, the Federation forbids settlement of planets by Federal Intakis, while the Syndicate itself doesn't depend on the Federation itself and can do whatever it wishes without asking Federal permissions. That's why Federal Intakis have just one planet, and Syndicate who has way less population has settled the whole region.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#190 - 2015-04-04 14:41:08 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
The Federation forbids - And to my understanding, it is actively enforced - The settlement of planets by the Intaki Syndicate, which therefore has an extremely low population ceiling in pan-cluster terms. It would take a logistical miracle for them to be able to capture or occupy any Federation systems at all.

As far as I understand, the Federation forbids settlement of planets by Federal Intakis, while the Syndicate itself doesn't depend on the Federation itself and can do whatever it wishes without asking Federal permissions. That's why Federal Intakis have just one planet, and Syndicate who has way less population has settled the whole region.


I'm afraid that's not correct, Diana. The Federation actively forbade - And continues to forbid - The settlement of planets or moons by the Intaki who were exiled to Syndicate during the Gallente/Caldari war, in the interests of preventing them from becoming a regional power that might eventually threaten their government. That's why they have so many stations despite being a small group.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#191 - 2015-04-04 15:11:44 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
The Federation forbids - And to my understanding, it is actively enforced - The settlement of planets by the Intaki Syndicate, which therefore has an extremely low population ceiling in pan-cluster terms. It would take a logistical miracle for them to be able to capture or occupy any Federation systems at all.

As far as I understand, the Federation forbids settlement of planets by Federal Intakis, while the Syndicate itself doesn't depend on the Federation itself and can do whatever it wishes without asking Federal permissions. That's why Federal Intakis have just one planet, and Syndicate who has way less population has settled the whole region.


As far as I understand it, Silphy En'Diabel is more interested by her titles and possessions than in engaging in uncertain endeavours planetside at the cost of alienating the Federation (especialy the Roden/Blaque government), as well as her own citizens that seem to show ironically sympathy to the Federation plight in the proxy war.

I really do not see her fool enough to do the same mistake her predecessors did. She may be elected for life, but she can also perfectly be deposed.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#192 - 2015-04-04 15:18:03 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
The Federation forbids - And to my understanding, it is actively enforced - The settlement of planets by the Intaki Syndicate, which therefore has an extremely low population ceiling in pan-cluster terms. It would take a logistical miracle for them to be able to capture or occupy any Federation systems at all.

As far as I understand, the Federation forbids settlement of planets by Federal Intakis, while the Syndicate itself doesn't depend on the Federation itself and can do whatever it wishes without asking Federal permissions. That's why Federal Intakis have just one planet, and Syndicate who has way less population has settled the whole region.


I'm afraid that's not correct, Diana. The Federation actively forbade - And continues to forbid - The settlement of planets or moons by the Intaki who were exiled to Syndicate during the Gallente/Caldari war, in the interests of preventing them from becoming a regional power that might eventually threaten their government. That's why they have so many stations despite being a small group.

I am sorry, I am mostly ignorant about Syndicate politics. But does that mean that the Syndicate is another Federal puppet?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#193 - 2015-04-04 15:49:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
Diana Kim wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
The Federation forbids - And to my understanding, it is actively enforced - The settlement of planets by the Intaki Syndicate, which therefore has an extremely low population ceiling in pan-cluster terms. It would take a logistical miracle for them to be able to capture or occupy any Federation systems at all.

As far as I understand, the Federation forbids settlement of planets by Federal Intakis, while the Syndicate itself doesn't depend on the Federation itself and can do whatever it wishes without asking Federal permissions. That's why Federal Intakis have just one planet, and Syndicate who has way less population has settled the whole region.


I'm afraid that's not correct, Diana. The Federation actively forbade - And continues to forbid - The settlement of planets or moons by the Intaki who were exiled to Syndicate during the Gallente/Caldari war, in the interests of preventing them from becoming a regional power that might eventually threaten their government. That's why they have so many stations despite being a small group.

I am sorry, I am mostly ignorant about Syndicate politics. But does that mean that the Syndicate is another Federal puppet?


By "Federal Puppet" I'll assume you mean it being a proxy state, for which the answer is both yes and no. The essence of it is that, while the Syndicate is in terms of general policy opposed to the Federation - Obviously, since it was founded by a group explicitly exiled from it - And it isn't controlled by it directly, it also exists largely at it's mercy. That is to say, it is so massively inferior in terms of military power that the Federation could essentially go in and destroy it on a whim, and so it must more or less conform to it's demands. It doesn't have a choice.

When the Gallente exiled the Intaki who supported the Caldari during the war, what they essentially said to them was, "We don't want you here, but we don't want you setting up your own nation, either. If you do that, we'll come and blow you up." And since the original group of exiles was less than a million in number and not equipped to object, well... That original sentence has more or less framed things since. At the time, I would imagine the Federal government assumed the exiles would simply disperse into the frontier and integrate elsewhere, a presumption that makes their handling of the situation seem relatively sensible, but. Obviously, that hasn't happened, leading to the rather odd current status quo.

Thus, the nation exists in a weird grey area where it's an enemy of the Federation, but also effectively a quasi-independent territory of it at the same time.

What miss Farel says is also true, though. Many people in the Syndicate have come to relate to the Federation due to the links they have to it in economic and cultural terms now that the cause their forefathers took up (that is, support of the Caldari) has fallen so far into the past. So even if the government itself is nominally anti-Federation, the opposite sentiment has begun to grow in the body politic.

Depending on ones perspective, I suppose you could call that either the natural and healthy result of the slow forgiveness and reintergration of a prodigal group, or some sort of bizzare nation-wide breed of stockholm syndrome.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#194 - 2015-04-04 16:14:49 UTC
I... would also add that the Federation is by the way well served by what the Syndicate has become, actually. As it is a place for every kind of trade, exchange, and other activities, the Syndicate stations oscillate between lawful space and unlawful space. They form a bridge between both, and offer an alternative thriving economy that actually benefits the Federation more than it does it harm.

Breaking such an unofficial arrangement would be harmful for both parties.
Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#195 - 2015-04-04 16:38:02 UTC
Such a shame when reality doesn't fit ideology.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#196 - 2015-04-05 09:47:40 UTC
I could say, that I have lost all the little respect I had of Syndicate... They allow themselves to stay under Federal heel instead of joining us to fight these inhuman gallentean oppressors. Spineless cowards Intaki these are!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#197 - 2015-04-07 03:16:53 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
I could say, that I have lost all the little respect I had of Syndicate... They allow themselves to stay under Federal heel instead of joining us to fight these inhuman gallentean oppressors. Spineless cowards Intaki these are!



Comrade Kim, the Intaki Syndicate are no puppets or proxy state for the Federation, no matter what Gallente nationalists or liberals may tell you.

Federation navy ships entering the Syndicate will be attacked by the Intaki Syndicate. Intaki Syndicate have stong hatred for the Federation. They are certainly not under the Federation jack boot..
Jukko Riis
Doomheim
#198 - 2015-04-07 03:27:24 UTC
TomHorn wrote:

Federation navy ships entering the Syndicate will be attacked by the Intaki Syndicate. Intaki Syndicate have stong hatred for the Federation. They are certainly not under the Federation jack boot..



The Feds ain't going anywhere while the Roden/Black Eagle regime is in power. No free Intaki. No free Caldari Prime. No end of the war with the State, no peace in Black Rise. To kill a snake, cut off the head. Simple, right?

Rinai Vero
Moira.
Villore Accords
#199 - 2015-04-07 03:35:20 UTC
You people hate Roden so badly because he's the epitome of a successful Caldari leader. He just isn't Caldari.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#200 - 2015-04-07 04:06:04 UTC
Jukko Riis wrote:
TomHorn wrote:

Federation navy ships entering the Syndicate will be attacked by the Intaki Syndicate. Intaki Syndicate have stong hatred for the Federation. They are certainly not under the Federation jack boot..



The Feds ain't going anywhere while the Roden/Black Eagle regime is in power. No free Intaki. No free Caldari Prime. No end of the war with the State, no peace in Black Rise. To kill a snake, cut off the head. Simple, right?



I wish it was that simple Riis-haan. I see no end to the war, no peace in Black Rise , no free Caldari Prime, unless it is won militarily like before with Tibus Heth, that maybe possible.

I see no end to the war between the Federation & the State. I only see a war of attrition that could last a millennium or more,

Free Intaki, yes , i support the Intaki liberation front, they have some great leadership , and great men and women working for them. It will not be an easy victory , but a long and hard struggle, they are prepared for that , i believe they will achieve their goals one day.