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[Discussion] Entosis Link Tactics and Ship Balance

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Acuma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#781 - 2015-03-09 22:00:58 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Your objective is to spend 20-30 minutes in an active system to waste about 2-4 minutes of the defender and nothing else? Have fun with that.....I will enjoy the countless man hours wasted by these supposed "burn down all of nullsec trollceptors!"

no, the attacking interceptor gets to disengage within 2m of getting caught

for the basic math challenged, 2 minutes is a lot shorter time than 20-30 minutes

Uh.....math huh. So what happens when you sit there for 30 minutes with you link active only to have some noob frigate come in and halt your progress? You magically get that time back?

you placed the system into reinforced, because 29.5m is the maximum it takes for anything but the exceedingly rare mining system
Really? And as has been discussed in other threads, that will probably be adjusted. Don't be dense. A heavily occupied system will probably end up near the top, and the defending force is going to know how much time they have......which is alot more than you. 15, 20, 30.....doesn't matter. Takes only 2 minutes of link activation to cancel you out. Congratulations.....you have chosen to waste hours accomplishing taking a few minutes of a defenders time......have fun with that.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#782 - 2015-03-09 22:02:39 UTC
Acuma wrote:
Really? And as has been discussed in other threads, that will probably be adjusted. Don't be dense. A heavily occupied system will probably end up near the top, and the defending force is going to know how much time they have......which is alot more than you. 15, 20, 30.....doesn't matter. Takes only 2 minutes of link activation to cancel you out. Congratulations.....you have chosen to waste hours accomplishing taking a few minutes of a defenders time......have fun with that.

i've seen many people agree it should be adjusted, but none with a CCP tag

and two links being activated PAUSES, not resets, the attackers timer
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#783 - 2015-03-09 22:03:13 UTC
Acuma wrote:
Really? And as has been discussed in other threads, that will probably be adjusted. Don't be dense. A heavily occupied system will probably end up near the top, and the defending force is going to know how much time they have......which is alot more than you. 15, 20, 30.....doesn't matter. Takes only 2 minutes of link activation to cancel you out. Congratulations.....you have chosen to waste hours accomplishing taking a few minutes of a defenders time......have fun with that.

disengage and move to next target

like seriously i need my clipboard back to post pictures of cats in jabber, you are killing me ehre
Acuma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#784 - 2015-03-09 22:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Acuma
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Really? And as has been discussed in other threads, that will probably be adjusted. Don't be dense. A heavily occupied system will probably end up near the top, and the defending force is going to know how much time they have......which is alot more than you. 15, 20, 30.....doesn't matter. Takes only 2 minutes of link activation to cancel you out. Congratulations.....you have chosen to waste hours accomplishing taking a few minutes of a defenders time......have fun with that.

i've seen many people agree it should be adjusted, but none with a CCP tag

and two links being activated PAUSES, not resets, the attackers timer


Again.....don't be dense. They asked for feedback and they are going to make adjustments.....that's a given. I never said the link "resets" I said it cancels you out so you run away in your trollceptor to repeat the process all over again somewhere else. Meanwhile an alt sits there and resets it cause you're to cowardly to commit any force to RFing.

Time spent:

Defender: A few minutes
Trollceptor: 10-35ish

Have fun bro.....
God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#785 - 2015-03-09 22:07:36 UTC
I really don't see how inties are a problem. One info linked maulus/keres/celestis prevents at least 3 ships from locking anywhere past linked FN web huginn/rapier web range. Even if the inty or t3 dessy or whatever had 250km lock range, a single bonused info linked damp brings you down 66.6%, or 83.25km lock range. Moreover, because the entosis timer is reset when you lose lock, you just have to cycle damps between as many ships as you can lock to repeatedly restart their timers.

Here is an example fit:

[Celestis, Entosis Counter]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script

Auto Targeting System I
Auto Targeting System I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S

Medium Inverted Signal Field Projector I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I



With 1 resebo and infolinks it can lock 12 targets at up to 242km. If you truly have control over the battlefield, then a handful of damp ships can fend off a horde of inties. Your lack of critical thinking skills are not justifiable cause to complain about a mechanic.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#786 - 2015-03-09 22:07:41 UTC
Acuma wrote:
Again.....don't be dense. They asked for feedback and they are going to make adjustments.....that's a given. I never said the link "resets" I said it cancels you out so you run away in your trollceptor to repeat the process all over again.

you can't say "that feedback isn't needed because they will adjust based on feedback and resolve that issue"

until they actually adjust then the feedback continues
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#787 - 2015-03-09 22:08:17 UTC
Acuma wrote:

they are going to make adjustments

[citation needed]
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#788 - 2015-03-09 22:09:23 UTC
God's Apples wrote:
I really don't see how inties are a problem. One info linked maulus/keres/celestis prevents at least 3 ships from locking anywhere past linked FN web huginn/rapier web range. Even if the inty or t3 dessy or whatever had 250km lock range, a single bonused info linked damp brings you down 66.6%, or 83.25km lock range. Moreover, because the entosis timer is reset when you lose lock, you just have to cycle damps between as many ships as you can lock to repeatedly restart their timers.

Here is an example fit:

[Celestis, Entosis Counter]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script

Auto Targeting System I
Auto Targeting System I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S

Medium Inverted Signal Field Projector I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I



With 1 resebo and infolinks it can lock 12 targets at up to 242km. If you truly have control over the battlefield, then a handful of damp ships can fend off a horde of inties. Your lack of critical thinking skills are not justifiable cause to complain about a mechanic.

disengage and move to next target

with a healthy lawl over using faction hardeners on a celestis

also that 1600mm plate is sure gonna help you catching up to an interceptor
Acuma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#789 - 2015-03-09 22:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Acuma
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Again.....don't be dense. They asked for feedback and they are going to make adjustments.....that's a given. I never said the link "resets" I said it cancels you out so you run away in your trollceptor to repeat the process all over again.

you can't say "that feedback isn't needed because they will adjust based on feedback and resolve that issue"

until they actually adjust then the feedback continues


And where exactly did I say that? I said they are requesting feedback.....there's no denying that. Whether the indexes stay as is or they adjust are irrelevant......the defender still knows the timers and will still waste a whole lot less time than you trying to RF in a trollceptor. Trolling the troll as it were......have fun spending 20 minutes for every 3-4 of a single defender LOL
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#790 - 2015-03-09 22:11:53 UTC
Acuma wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Again.....don't be dense. They asked for feedback and they are going to make adjustments.....that's a given. I never said the link "resets" I said it cancels you out so you run away in your trollceptor to repeat the process all over again.

you can't say "that feedback isn't needed because they will adjust based on feedback and resolve that issue"

until they actually adjust then the feedback continues


And where exactly did I say that? I said they are requesting feedback.....there's no denying that. Whether the indexes stay as is or they adjust are irrelevant......the defender still knows the timers and will still waste a whole lot less time than you trying to RF in a trollceptor. Trolling the troll as it were......have fun spending 20 minutes for every 3-4 of a single defender LOL

please continue to harp on this point as if it was relevant

also extended ellipsis use is one of the key signs of desperation in a poster
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#791 - 2015-03-09 22:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
I'm in shock because massadeath confessed moa was in it as mercs.

you can't come at someone screaming you'll end their 0.0 dream and then be all "sorry baby, it was all about being the best paid job"

your hot throbbing intention to smash though our 0.0 dream... was it all a lie?!?!!!


I don't know how to take this, I need to take a rest. Maybe I will join a structure shooting fleet.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Acuma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#792 - 2015-03-09 22:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Acuma
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Acuma wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Again.....don't be dense. They asked for feedback and they are going to make adjustments.....that's a given. I never said the link "resets" I said it cancels you out so you run away in your trollceptor to repeat the process all over again.

you can't say "that feedback isn't needed because they will adjust based on feedback and resolve that issue"

until they actually adjust then the feedback continues


And where exactly did I say that? I said they are requesting feedback.....there's no denying that. Whether the indexes stay as is or they adjust are irrelevant......the defender still knows the timers and will still waste a whole lot less time than you trying to RF in a trollceptor. Trolling the troll as it were......have fun spending 20 minutes for every 3-4 of a single defender LOL

please continue to harp on this point as if it was relevant

also extended ellipsis use is one of the key signs of desperation in a poster


As are personal attacks. Something I noticed alot of GoOniEs have no problem with. I understand how you would think it's unreasonable to assume since they ask for feedback on the entosis they won't ask for feedback on the other mechanics.........oh wait, it's not. LOL

If you repeat a lie often enough......it doesn't make it true. It's relevant to me and many others. I would love for you goonies to waste countless hours accomplishing nothing but wasting a defenders few minutes :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#793 - 2015-03-09 22:15:26 UTC
Acuma wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Acuma wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Again.....don't be dense. They asked for feedback and they are going to make adjustments.....that's a given. I never said the link "resets" I said it cancels you out so you run away in your trollceptor to repeat the process all over again.

you can't say "that feedback isn't needed because they will adjust based on feedback and resolve that issue"

until they actually adjust then the feedback continues


And where exactly did I say that? I said they are requesting feedback.....there's no denying that. Whether the indexes stay as is or they adjust are irrelevant......the defender still knows the timers and will still waste a whole lot less time than you trying to RF in a trollceptor. Trolling the troll as it were......have fun spending 20 minutes for every 3-4 of a single defender LOL

please continue to harp on this point as if it was relevant

also extended ellipsis use is one of the key signs of desperation in a poster


As are personal attacks. Something I noticed alot of GoOniEs have no problem with. I understand how you would think it's unreasonable to assume since they ask for feedback on the entosis they won't ask for feedback on the other mechanics.........oh wait, it's not. LOL

We're the bad guys, it's to be expected that people will attack our persons, as... our persons are bad, after all.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#794 - 2015-03-09 22:16:38 UTC
Acuma wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Acuma wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Acuma wrote:
Again.....don't be dense. They asked for feedback and they are going to make adjustments.....that's a given. I never said the link "resets" I said it cancels you out so you run away in your trollceptor to repeat the process all over again.

you can't say "that feedback isn't needed because they will adjust based on feedback and resolve that issue"

until they actually adjust then the feedback continues


And where exactly did I say that? I said they are requesting feedback.....there's no denying that. Whether the indexes stay as is or they adjust are irrelevant......the defender still knows the timers and will still waste a whole lot less time than you trying to RF in a trollceptor. Trolling the troll as it were......have fun spending 20 minutes for every 3-4 of a single defender LOL

please continue to harp on this point as if it was relevant

also extended ellipsis use is one of the key signs of desperation in a poster


As are personal attacks. Something I noticed alot of GoOniEs have no problem with. I understand how you would think it's unreasonable to assume since they ask for feedback on the entosis they won't ask for feedback on the other mechanics.........oh wait, it's not. LOL

If you repeat a lie often enough......it doesn't make it true. It's relevant to me and many others. I would love for you goonies to waste countless hours accomplishing nothing but wasting a defenders few minutes :)

a personal attack requires an attack on a person, not his posts

unless you identify as an anthropomorphic forums post in which case consider my biology privilege thoroughly checked
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#795 - 2015-03-09 22:17:24 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/dZoUBJK.jpg

45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math)

It's also a fifth the cost. Your move.

please do not post fits that only kill the interceptor inside of a very short, narrow range where the interceptor would not be in any even remotely plausible pvp scenario

basically only post RLML fits, and even then i hope you have 200km+ range

"look at the graph it has a point this is where I can guarantee a ship to be at all times"


Reload with Iron and it'll deal 90 DPS from 20km to 100. That fit will kill interceptors, any range a Rapier can't web at.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#796 - 2015-03-09 22:18:41 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
God's Apples wrote:
I really don't see how inties are a problem. One info linked maulus/keres/celestis prevents at least 3 ships from locking anywhere past linked FN web huginn/rapier web range. Even if the inty or t3 dessy or whatever had 250km lock range, a single bonused info linked damp brings you down 66.6%, or 83.25km lock range. Moreover, because the entosis timer is reset when you lose lock, you just have to cycle damps between as many ships as you can lock to repeatedly restart their timers.

Here is an example fit:

[Celestis, Entosis Counter]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
Damage Control II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script

Auto Targeting System I
Auto Targeting System I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon I, EMP S

Medium Inverted Signal Field Projector I
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I



With 1 resebo and infolinks it can lock 12 targets at up to 242km. If you truly have control over the battlefield, then a handful of damp ships can fend off a horde of inties. Your lack of critical thinking skills are not justifiable cause to complain about a mechanic.

disengage and move to next target

with a healthy lawl over using faction hardeners on a celestis

also that 1600mm plate is sure gonna help you catching up to an interceptor


So what, the locals resecure the target in half the time it took you to make progress on it, then move to your new target and save that one too.

The faction hardener is there for it's reduced cpu, and isn't very expensive.

And the celestis isn't there to catch the interceptor, only to neutralize it. You don't have to destroy an opponent to inhibit them.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#797 - 2015-03-09 22:19:05 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

https://i.imgur.com/dZoUBJK.jpg

45 DPS at 124km, your interceptor is dead in under a minute (55.5 seconds, yes I did the math)

It's also a fifth the cost. Your move.

please do not post fits that only kill the interceptor inside of a very short, narrow range where the interceptor would not be in any even remotely plausible pvp scenario

basically only post RLML fits, and even then i hope you have 200km+ range

"look at the graph it has a point this is where I can guarantee a ship to be at all times"


Reload with Iron and it'll deal 90 DPS from 20km to 100. That fit will kill interceptors, any range a Rapier can't web at.

i'm sure if you ask nicely the interceptor will sit inside this range for you while you wait for target lock to complete
Acuma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#798 - 2015-03-09 22:21:01 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:

a personal attack requires an attack on a person, not his posts

unless you identify as an anthropomorphic forums post in which case consider my biology privilege thoroughly checked


Are you new to the internet? Attacking someone's grammar when you fail to make your argument.......LMAO
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#799 - 2015-03-09 22:21:07 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
And the celestis isn't there to catch the interceptor, only to neutralize it. You don't have to destroy an opponent to inhibit them.

the best part is where everyone has given up on the dream of trying to kill the interceptor and are now just trying to damp it out

it's almost like everyone instinctively knows that interceptors are too difficult to kill in any normal pvp situation
1nverted
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#800 - 2015-03-09 22:21:49 UTC
It seems incredible that some people are still defending trollceptors in light of Fozzie's original post:. In that post, he said this:


We've been seeing quite a bit of concern from parts of the community that the Entosis Link mechanics will push people to pure evasion fits, the so called trollceptors. It goes without saying that we do not want the sov war meta turn into nothing but sensor boosting Interceptors, but we have plenty of time and tools to help ensure that scenario doesn't occur.

One of the points of this thread is to discuss how CCP can avoid trollceptors becoming a thing.

I suggest a speed limit of 3500m/s on ships using the entosis link.

Goons should stop saying how stupid trollceptors are (that is a given) and start making suggestions as to how to avoid them.

The other posters should stop defending the idea of a trollceptor. Fozzie's post says that CCP's focus is to ensure a command node is won by the party controlling the grid. Kiting interceptors at 10,000m/s do not fulfil that goal and will therefore not be allowed.