EVE General Discussion

Small gangs shouldn't be effective against much larger gangs when brawling! They should be forced to use tactical wit instead of bluntly boosting their stats from off grid to make it look as if they accomplish something heroic. Besides: The larger the gang the higher the probability that they have a dedicated booster aswell. The whole ogb is necessary for small vs larger gang argument is null. More often than not ogb's are used by risk averse players to gain an advantage on top of their superior numbers.

If I can offer a counter argument to that, my experience is almost the opposite of what you are saying here.

Before I trained a links character I was reluctant to take fights outnumbered. But seeing how extensive the use of links is in lowsec, I trained a character up (pw. q1w2e3r4).

She is far from slow and static, though her Loki doesn't warp as fast as a frigate or a T1 cruiser when I roam. She is used to scout as well as provide links, so gives me eyes in 2 systems at once, providing more knowledge of what is happening around.

But mostly, having the links has allowed me to take more fights than I otherwise would because I will happily engage well outnumbered. 17:1 (17:2 including the links) is the largest fight I have taken on (I died of course, but took several down beforehand).

Links can move fast and promote anything but risk aversion. Fighting outnumbered creates good fights for everyone and has had flow on effects into other areas. When I began FCing, having taken on a lot of fights outnumbered on my own (as a player), I already had a relatively good skillset in selecting targets and identifying which to take down first. That has bought better fights to my corpmates too when we are in fleet, whether we are running links or not.

Would I really care if links were changed? Not really. I'm already training my links alt up to be on-grid at some point in the future, but links aren't a magic pill. Good piloting can still counter the benefit that someone else gains through links.

I have scanned down and killed links strategic cruisers.
Also blapped away at ones sitting at edge of pos shield or on undock in lowsec.
Helped throw a squad of bombs at one pos-lurking links bc.
Best of all, some poor drinker fat-finger-warped his links loki to an ice belt and got it destroyed by four bait fit procurers.
There is risk to off-grid boosters.
You must supply it.

If it was only solo players vs larger gangs using links , i wouldn't mind. But in my experience , its usually people in faction ships/full set of implants/ with backup/ with links at a 100% safe place( generally FW zones). Or for example in HS , Sit a links boat in a NPC corp get a pretty safe advantage with no risk. It gives people another advantage that can't really be countered , which is why it should be changed.
Logi? Focus them . Ecm? Use eccm Neuts? Cap boosters/nos Links??

Where is your experience from that this is it?

There's a lot more use of links than faction ships and a set of implants for someone without links can also counter the links, the difference there being that links scale across the squad/wing/fleet where implants are individual. Particularly in lowsec, there is no greater risk to a pod than to a links ship (unless Santo or a copycat is around, but that can be avoided easily too).

Without links i can't engage outnumbered because its actually the off grid , off kill mail links that gives me a big enough advantage too take ridiculous fights and do well.

This is why links need to be changed....

What about the players who don't run links? Many of them will be hesitant to engage at all since they will always be afraid that the incursus in that plex might be able to tank their gang due to that legion floating in space somewhere but not showing up on these embarrassing km's. Why do you even need links anyway? I fight 1vsmany most of the time and i have a lot of fun doing it. There are other ways than bluntly boosting your stats. kiting for instance. Don't you realize that this whole ogb thing is a huge turn off for casuals, newer players or generally anybody who doesn't want to run a second account? Shouldn't success in pvp be determined by tactical means and by what you actually throw in the ring (aka risking it)rather than by a boosting t3 or command ship which doesn't interact during the fight whatsoever? You sound reasonable so i'm really hoping that you understand that it's not about not having a link alt, I could easily afford one tbh but that wouldn't change the fact that for reasons stated above ogb's are a terrible mechanic.

uh , pretty much any faction warfare zones?From being in faction warfare on this acc/alts for years. I can understand why people do this. It's simple. They wanted the biggest advantage , so there killed board looks impressive.

I recently went into null , I was in a AB fit incursus. I landed in a bubble 120kms away from a Sivipul / orthus , The orthus burned at me going 5k/ms . Somehow i managed too scram him w/o links , w/o a t2 point. This really shouldn't of happened. I killed his 500m faction fit kite boat in a ab inc..When i checked his killboard, it was a hell of alot more impressive then mine something like 2k kills 100 losses, but his piloting skills were on par with a 2month old char.

My point is , People want the biggest advantage , Numbers , rr , logi , implants ect. Which is fine , But links cant really be countered. If there was actually some risk when using link boats/ they were on killmails , it would be a much nicer place.

I know , i kinda hinted at that a few posts earlier. If they can't implement on grid links , i am pretty sure theres other things they could do. Links on kilmails would be great , all those 'solo' pilots that need links to win would be exposed and probbably stop using them

This I could live with xD