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Dev blog: Politics by Other Means: Sovereignty Phase Two

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Doctor Fabulous MD
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1141 - 2015-03-04 08:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Fabulous MD
Zip Slings wrote:

Show me the inty fit that locks at 250. Show me the inty fit that can lock at 250 and tank a sniper Muninn. Show me the inty fit that can lock at 250 and outrun a speed fit PVP inty/pirate frig.


this thing locks at 250 in sniper mode while going 7km/s , and it locks at 190 in speed mode, while going 11km/s (9kms if you dont use snakes+quafe zero) and will speedtank any sniper fit in the game at that speed and range.

http://i.imgur.com/t29IKHD.png (yes thats a whole 3 dps at 190km)

sniper fits are setup for 100% max tracking, with the smallest guns that will reach optimally at that range + appropriate ammo, hence their lack of targeting range in that graph. If you can find me a fit that tracks anywhere even close to well ill be shocked.

It also goes too fast to probe down, and can do the cloak mwd trick so hard its 30km out of a bubble before the MWD stops cycling, so its pretty much uncatchable at gates.

Anything that lands on grid that is capable of actually catching it and tackling it (only other T3 destroyers fit with a scram), it can just immediately overheat MWD and burn towards a safe until the no-warp timer runs out (2 minutes max), warp off, cloak, wait for them to leave, then fire up the sov laser again.

Even with the SLIM possibility of getting caught, its at very most 200 million lost, meanwhile if an alliance loses a fully upgraded ihub, its billions + weeks of effort and freighter convoys.

Extremely balanced.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1142 - 2015-03-04 08:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrie Atticus
I'd just like to pop in to say that when changes force entities who are notoriously neutral in their alignment and allegiance (snuffbox, Tri.) to blob up you have a winner system.
Drechlas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1143 - 2015-03-04 09:01:57 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:

That's exploitable. I can have the station etc held by an alliance with 10 people or less in it, which obviously isn't desirable.

Yes and no, an alliance of 10 can't defend more than 10 positions which means 5 systems. All the others can be attacked and as such it isn't a feasible exploit

Lord TGR wrote:

This can be dealt with by buffing something else, then increasing taxes for building stuff etc, for example.

True, in general most people tend to think in "nerf one" rather than "buff all other". Either way it needs to be dealt with.
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#1144 - 2015-03-04 09:02:17 UTC
Lickem Lolly wrote:
Welcome to Griefing Online!

I've read the blog a few times and tried very hard to find something positive, but I just don't see it. As someone who has lived in nullsec in small and large alliances, I can tell you this will be horrible.

Major problems:

1) Griefers in interceptors will be pinging our SOV for giggles 24/7


From the original dev blog:
" Build costs of approximately 20 million isk for Tech One, and approximately 80 million isk for Tech Two."

I expect CCP to raise this slightly or even dramatically but even if they don't. PLEASE hurl, literally hurl, as many 100M interceptors... as fast as you can, no, actually, faster, oh my god I can't wait just patch Tranquility now... into the waiting and loving arms of literally dozens of different configurations of sniper fit Attack BCs, HACs, and even other ceptors designed to run your ass down. My god I can't wait for those killmails to start rolling in.

TLDR:
STOP HYPERBOLIZING ABOUT FRIGATES
sytaqe violacea
Choir of morning
#1145 - 2015-03-04 09:03:57 UTC
"Prime Time" mechanism will be painful for AUTZ player.
For USTZ player, attacking in EU/RUS prime hours is not so difficult, just log in weekend noon and attack EU/RUS TZ player.
Attacking AUTZ is bit difficult because AUTZ prime hours are in morning for USTZ, but not so serious.
However, for AUTZ player, attacking in any other TZs is painful, IIRC RUS/EU/US prime hours are located in AM1~10 of our TZ.
It means AUTZ player are shut out of the most of sov warfare.
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1146 - 2015-03-04 09:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: SilentAsTheGrave
I have some questions and concerns now that I have had time to (hopefully) process it all:

  1. If certain ships types would prove to be simply too powerful at utilizing the Entosis Link; would CCP be willing to restrict it completely from a ship? You say capital ships will have the time increased to 400%, but for some groups it could mean a guaranteed win.

  2. Would not allowing certain modules to be fit if the Entosis Link is also fit? No cynos or cloaks as an example. Sure there is a sandbox game, but even a sandbox has walls.

  3. Structure notifications are a crutch that enable AFK empire type game play and allow groups to embrace the coalition lifestyle. If such a notification system is available for this new sov system, it will undermine the point of this sov revamp. Low fuel notifications are fine, but sending out notifications within seconds of someone shooting a structure (POS) or activating the Entosis Link is simply counter productive to the point of occupancy based sov. If the group who owns a POS, sov or station are in fact active in those systems, it will be easy to know if something is happening. It is the groups who take road trips to the other side of the map, travel long distances to assist a coalition members that greatly benefit from notifications. While I don't mind people having friends; I don't see the healthy game play value in being able to heavily assist random blues on the other side of the game.

  4. When activating the Entosis Link, does it stay on until the cycle is complete or can one deactivate it at any time in order to receive assistance and or dock/jump gate?

  5. Also on the subject of notifications and AFK empires; is there plans to keep the API from informing groups that their abandoned castles are being invaded if they choose not to use the space the castle sits in? You introduced the mobile siphon to help combat such behavior when it comes to large blocs consuming all the good moons across the game - yet dropped the ball big time because the API notifies within an hour if a mobile siphon is on the POS. Despite you saying the API would not allow it, players have figured out that adding a 3rd silo to the POS allows the API to provide the information needed for groups to continue their AFK moon printing presses negating any impact the mobile siphon can have. And speaking of such; what is taking so long in fixing this exploit? It has been well over a year. Ugh

  6. There is some concerns about alliances splintering into several alliances based around time zones in order to game the system. I'm sure you have thought about this, and could you list the pros and cons of trying such a tactic. Even touch on these crazy speed and range frigates other players are saying will become the #1 sov harassing doctrine.
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#1147 - 2015-03-04 09:15:57 UTC
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:

Show me the inty fit that locks at 250. Show me the inty fit that can lock at 250 and tank a sniper Muninn. Show me the inty fit that can lock at 250 and outrun a speed fit PVP inty/pirate frig.


this thing locks at 250 in sniper mode while going 7km/s , and it locks at 175 in speed mode, while going 11km/s (9kms if you dont use snakes+quafe zero) and will speedtank any sniper fit in the game at that speed and range.

http://i.imgur.com/t29IKHD.png (yes thats a whole 3 dps at 175km)

sniper fits are setup for 100% max tracking, with the smallest guns that will reach optimally at that range + appropriate ammo, hence their lack of targeting range in that graph. If you can find me a fit that tracks anywhere even close to well ill be shocked.

It also goes too fast to probe down, and can do the cloak mwd trick so hard its 30km out of a bubble before the MWD stops cycling, so its pretty much uncatchable at gates.

Anything lands on grid capable of actually catching it and tackling it (only other T3 destroyers fit with a scram), it can just immediately warp off to a safe and cloak, wait for them to leave, then fire up the sov laser again.


1. Your idea that this Svipul would "just warp" seems to forget the fact that it can't warp for 2 minutes at a time.

2. http://i.imgur.com/waJhtx5.png
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1148 - 2015-03-04 09:18:19 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Why not allow the first attack to occur any time but the reinforce end during the prime time?


This could work

I've been theorycrafting sov revamps since 2011 when it became blatantly obvious the system was broken and would lead to the end result we're seeing today, and at no point did I ever come up with the prime time solution. I find primetime to be interesting, though, but on one hand it could work as it'd let them defend, on the other hand it could mean randoms derping around and pinging everything for *****'n'giggles.

I honestly don't know which'd be the right design strategy here, and I suspect only rigorous playtesting'll answer that, like we found with the dominion sov where everyone loved it when it first came out, before it turned seriously sour.
Doctor Fabulous MD
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1149 - 2015-03-04 09:21:52 UTC
Zip Slings wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:


Anything lands on grid capable of actually catching it and tackling it (only other T3 destroyers fit with a scram), it can just immediately warp off to a safe and cloak, wait for them to leave, then fire up the sov laser again.


1. Your idea that this Svipul would "just warp" seems to forget the fact that it can't warp for 2 minutes at a time.

2. http://i.imgur.com/waJhtx5.png



Yes, i misspoke and edited my post, he would simply have to burn away until warpoff timer expired.

That naga fit wont hit at all either.
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1150 - 2015-03-04 09:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord TGR
Drechlas wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:

That's exploitable. I can have the station etc held by an alliance with 10 people or less in it, which obviously isn't desirable.

Yes and no, an alliance of 10 can't defend more than 10 positions which means 5 systems. All the others can be attacked and as such it isn't a feasible exploit

The owner of a station doesn't have to be the defender. The defender can be a 35000 man coalition, but the owner doesn't have to be. That's where the exploitable situation comes into play with making it a slider dependent on the size of whomever owns it.

Drechlas wrote:
Lord TGR wrote:

This can be dealt with by buffing something else, then increasing taxes for building stuff etc, for example.

True, in general most people tend to think in "nerf one" rather than "buff all other". Either way it needs to be dealt with.

Correct. I'm not sure which'll be the correct route, but in general buffing all will be more positively received than nerfing one thing, even if nerfing one thing might be the correct thing to do. Conversely, if you buff everything else, chances are you'll have to nerf something else to compensate, which'll make a ton of other people whine, so you might just see "nerf one" if that's the simplest change which'll yield the lowest whines/nerf ratio.
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#1151 - 2015-03-04 09:22:32 UTC
MiliasColds wrote:
Angry Mustache wrote:
Here's an idea, what if they were battleships only.

It would give battleships a reason to be flown, and not make sov into a giant game of "catch the ceptor"


if he can't warp off he's far more catchable, like with a loki :P


Unless he's also ewar immune :)
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#1152 - 2015-03-04 09:28:13 UTC
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:


Anything lands on grid capable of actually catching it and tackling it (only other T3 destroyers fit with a scram), it can just immediately warp off to a safe and cloak, wait for them to leave, then fire up the sov laser again.


1. Your idea that this Svipul would "just warp" seems to forget the fact that it can't warp for 2 minutes at a time.

2. http://i.imgur.com/waJhtx5.png



Yes, i misspoke and edited my post, he would simply have to burn away until warpoff timer expired.

That naga fit wont hit at all either.


Propulsion mode: Load Plutonium and swap to tracking speed scripts. I also T2'd both Metastasis adjusters
http://i.imgur.com/6EwBR6y.png

Sniper mode: Load Tungsten and go half tracking half optimal scripts
http://i.imgur.com/6EwBR6y.png
Doctor Fabulous MD
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1153 - 2015-03-04 09:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Fabulous MD
Zip Slings wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:


Anything lands on grid capable of actually catching it and tackling it (only other T3 destroyers fit with a scram), it can just immediately warp off to a safe and cloak, wait for them to leave, then fire up the sov laser again.


1. Your idea that this Svipul would "just warp" seems to forget the fact that it can't warp for 2 minutes at a time.

2. http://i.imgur.com/waJhtx5.png



Yes, i misspoke and edited my post, he would simply have to burn away until warpoff timer expired.

That naga fit wont hit at all either.


Propulsion mode: Load Plutonium and swap to tracking speed scripts. I also T2'd both Metastasis adjusters
http://i.imgur.com/6EwBR6y.png

Sniper mode: Load Tungsten and go half tracking half optimal scripts
http://i.imgur.com/6EwBR6y.png



You do realize thats 0.4 Damage per second right Roll way less than even the passive shield regen on that thing.
Geanos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1154 - 2015-03-04 09:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Geanos
I think that this "prime time" thing helps the mercenary alliances that will take the sov for you from people outside your time zone. And this is a good thing, it adds more variation to gameplay. So there will be huge incentives for said alliances to have people from all time zones.

EX: you hate your neighbor who's prime time is AU/TZ, but he's invulnerable in your time zone and he mocks you for that. You make a contract with a mercenary alliance to take the sov for you and show him who's the boss. You keep 2 - 3 guys active in that TZ ready to drop the TCU and you're done.

I also see people complaining that being outside of alliance "prime time" will make them irrelevant for said alliance. But guess what. You can help by taking sov for your alliance from people living in your "prime time".

PS: the new sov is about facilitating fights, not making ratting / mining more secure. The place for safe ISK grinding already exist and it's called hi-sec.
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1155 - 2015-03-04 09:35:50 UTC  |  Edited by: SilentAsTheGrave
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Arrow Will the Entosis cycle be affected by TIDI? ( I hope so otherwise Wyvern > Levi >Avatar > Aeon supremacy )

As it said in the dev blog, yes it will be affected by TiDi. Did you read it or just skim it? Straight
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Arrow I feel like the 4 hour window is to short. (I would recommend 6)

I feel like the 4 hour window is fine for now until we see it in action for a bit. If it is too narrow of a window, it can always be increased later.
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Arrow Besides the name on the map why would anyone choose to move to nullsec? ( Incursions , level 5's already offer more isk per hour than nullsec. )

If you are talking high sec Incursions, null anom farming is much better ISK. Level 5 missions pulls in less ISK per tick as well compared to null anoms. (I could be misinformed about this though)
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Arrow How does all the Risk of Living in Nullsec compare to the rewards of other safer areas in Eve?
From everything I have read and even experienced so far - null is one of the safest parts of the game. I get constant updates in my intel channel and anyone not blue I either kill or avoid. I go into high sec and I have war targets lurking everywhere. Even not knowing which neutral is an alt that will provide remote repairs to the war target I'm fighting. There is so much traffic of unknowns I can't keep track of them and to fight them requires I war dec them or suicide gank them. Even if there is no war targets I could be suicide ganked by anyone at any moment and there is no clear way for me to know who is a threat and who is not.
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Arrow Supercapital Role ?
Super capitals have yet to be rebalanced. I am hoping to see their role in the game be completely revamped into something beyond a structure grinder or expensive sling shot for fleet members. Esencially be patient and when CCP turns their attention to them, I'm sure they will enhance null in a positive way. One that is not just meaningful, but very enjoyable for the pilots involved without becoming 'I Win Buttons'.
Doctor Fabulous MD
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1156 - 2015-03-04 09:39:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Fabulous MD
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

Esencially be patient and when CCP turns their attention to them, I'm sure they will enhance null in a positive way. One that is not just meaningful, but very enjoyable for the pilots involved without becoming 'I Win Buttons'.


CCP has left entire CLASSES of ships uselessly nerfed for nearly half a decade, you better have the patience of a saint.
Zip Slings
SCI Zenith
Flying Dangerous
#1157 - 2015-03-04 09:41:18 UTC
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
Zip Slings wrote:
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:


Anything lands on grid capable of actually catching it and tackling it (only other T3 destroyers fit with a scram), it can just immediately warp off to a safe and cloak, wait for them to leave, then fire up the sov laser again.


1. Your idea that this Svipul would "just warp" seems to forget the fact that it can't warp for 2 minutes at a time.

2. http://i.imgur.com/waJhtx5.png



Yes, i misspoke and edited my post, he would simply have to burn away until warpoff timer expired.

That naga fit wont hit at all either.


Propulsion mode: Load Plutonium and swap to tracking speed scripts. I also T2'd both Metastasis adjusters
http://i.imgur.com/6EwBR6y.png

Sniper mode: Load Tungsten and go half tracking half optimal scripts
http://i.imgur.com/6EwBR6y.png



You do realize thats 0.4 Damage per second right Roll way less than even the passive shield regen on that thing.


god damnit... graphs and numbers... I was so proud of myself too.

Anyways, http://i.imgur.com/qaDmPO3.png one semi-good warpin and dead Svipul.
Bam Stroker
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#1158 - 2015-03-04 09:42:10 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Things...

The hero New Eden needs.

EVE Down Under - a community for players in the AUTZ

In-game channel: evedownunder // Twitter: @evedownunder

https://www.facebook.com/evedownunder
Iski Zuki DaSen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1159 - 2015-03-04 09:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iski Zuki DaSen
Entosis Link
Requires the skill Infomorph Psychology (rank 1 skill)."

**** shoulda been a leadership skill, next tier above fleet command οr corp management skill

"hey hey i can jump clone" i now have the skill to own sov

so lets grab my interceptor and rule the world

oh no no i forgot i am an AU TZ player
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1160 - 2015-03-04 09:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: SilentAsTheGrave
Doctor Fabulous MD wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

Manfred Sideous wrote:
Arrow Supercapital Role ?
Super capitals have yet to be rebalanced. I am hoping to see their role in the game be completely revamped into something beyond a structure grinder or expensive sling shot for fleet members.

Essentially be patient and when CCP turns their attention to them, I'm sure they will enhance null in a positive way. One that is not just meaningful, but very enjoyable for the pilots involved without becoming 'I Win Buttons'.


CCP has left entire CLASSES of ships uselessly nerfed for nearly half a decade, you better have the patience of a saint.

CCP have been knocking things out of the park for the last several months fixing things. One of the reasons why I actually started to play this game. I have faith they will keep up the good work.