EVE Information Portal

You think that if other parts of space were nerfed silly, people would feed themselves to the big null power blocs instead of just quitting a crap game. That's adorable.

What is "a better life?" What if "a better income" is not as important a variable to some players as it is to you? (More to the point, what if the means necessary to get "a better income" looked like far too much effort to bother with? I'm looking at high sec missions, mostly, but I've been bored silly orbiting buttons, too.) What if people stay in low sec, or high sec, or wormholes, because it suits them better? What if null sec is not the place that you "graduate" to, it's just a play option with a particular flavor?

The simple fact is that if the safe, consistent accumulation of ISK is that important to you, then maybe high sec is where you should be. Leave the risky parts of space for people who enjoy risk. And be sure to post when your oh-so-super-safe bear-mobile is ganked in Osmon.

Confirming that new players subscribe to run L4 missions and highsec incursions.

But you make graphs... or is that like a state secret

Forget the carrot! all you health nut jobs can keep your carrot!

I want the CAKE!!!!!mmmmCAKE!!!

I don't generally disagree with any of the points you are making.

However, I would add these considerations:
- if anyone ever actually afk rats in deklein, they're guaranteed to get killed by the people that roam through that space- just ask Gevlon. Each ship lost is 300+mil to replace.
-I do not disagree that the ability to use drones and not have to click anything is good for the game. HOWEVER, realize that active ratting is not a significantly higher reward than doing the drone version. The point with those specific comparisons is to show that doing active activities elsewhere is wildly more profitable than in null
-Not blitzing and not running for optimal isk/lp is effectively the same justification as using drones to rat in null. Less wealth per hour for less effort or concentration. Except the risk of getting your ratting ship killed in highsec is near zero provided that you are not running some wild officer fit.
-Moongoo is basically the only current justification for entities to actually live in null. If there was no moon goo or if it was changed to another format at this point, why would we ever realistically operate out of null as a corporation or an alliance. Wormhole space would be significantly more profitable for everyone if moongoo was changed.

But wait, like how Marmite would end us if we lived in highsec,

the wormhole people will end us if we try to live in wormhole. our wormhole dream will be ended nearly instantly, even without anything like sov lasers

Can we see some numbers backing up your claim? If the frequency of shifts between LP conversion rates show us anything, it's that people actually tend to blitz those. (And of course there are widely known guides that cover every mission out there and emphasize blitzing) It seems to me that you are making a subjective claim here without any data to back it up. Some call this bullshipping.



Factually, rushing one faction LP ends up devaluing it, given that the demand for goods obtainable through the associated LP store is nominally stable. Player reaction to this is simply doing missions for another faction.

SoE LP store, on the other hand, has certain items that are always in high and continuous demand. This is one of the reasons why SoE LP was already more valuable over the others. The release of SoE ships further increased the demand, thus, making SoE LP even more valuable than it was before the SoE ship release.

Therefore the point you mentioned is invalid, and the example you used is attached to your faulty point out of the circumstances that allow it to be. Highsec pilots are easily able to adjust for any LP value fluctuation, which has nothing to do at all with your non-factual belief that null individual income is plentiful.



It isn't, drone boats can be used for good effect in empire mission running too. Besides, one can even try and fly a Machariel in null-sec anoms, the end result in hourly individual income only changes by ~20m over the established ~50m ISK /hr figure. That is still extremely miniscule compared to 90-100m ISK/hr empire mission running income, 300+ m ISK/hr FW L4 running income and 150+ m ISK/hr highsec incursion income.

As the math and figures lay it out, the apple and oranges claim you are making is unfounded. And even if it wasn't, it wouldn't have change the fact that how null individual income is extremely poor not just against lowsec FW, but even several highsec activities.



Sorry, but you are still wrong. You have already been told by actual null-sec players with allegiances to varied and even opposing factions that the moon income has been drastically nerfed quite some time ago. SRP budgets are largely provided through the taxation of individuals. Moon goo isn't what it used to be 3-4 years ago. One can simply make very good predictions of alliance and coalition member sizes with comparisons between income from moons and monthly alliance/coalition loss totals. The inevitable conclusion is always that the moon goo is very far from accounting for SRP budgets alone.

Now that it has been proven again that you are not providing this discussion with anything of substance (just wild speculation and poorly crafted rhetoric), perhaps you should consider continuing your salvaging career over at high-sec and posting claims on threads such as this that you are really an alt of a sovereign null resident. You have a penchant for story telling after all!

This is the kind of extreme ignorance that always, and I mean always, distorts the discussion.

Go find the post where I said 'everyone in high sec is making tons of money'. Sov Null sec as a whole probably generates more income that most other places, mainly because the main pve activity (anoms) is semi afk-able.

The POINT is, for the INDIVIDUAL pilot who knows what he is doing, Sov Null is just about the WORST place to LIVE. Great choice if you have an Ishtar alt and don't mind replacing ishtars every week, poor choice if you are a settler who wants to LIVE in null.

If you want to 'live' there, it's much much better to do pve in other places and just funnel the money over to a null alt. Many people who live in null do this, while others accept the "100-ish mil per hour" glass ceiling of null and make due. The answer to the imbalance (that people deny) isn't more isk in null anomalies (they generate too much liquid isk as it is), it's a top down review of pve in EVE coupled with a change in how wealth is accumulated in sov null. Sov null missions would pretty much fix the entire issue.

Outside of null I can figure out new and better ways to make isk, how to blitz, how to maximize isk per LP and so forth. In sov null, once you make it up to 'I can fly a carrier" there is zero you can do to improve on that because of the nature of anomalies (unlike incursions, bringing more people lowers your income, not raises it' because of how deadpsace npc bounties work). But until that happens, the core problem that creates the current situation in null will continue and "FW 2.0" will fail because their will not be the motivation to put up with it's crap when you can make isk elsewhere. This happened before btw.



The question that always comes to mind when I read tripe like the post I'm quoting is "if you don't understand the issue, why are eyou commenting?".

In the end, people want our 0.0 dream to end, and CCP also has similar 0.0 visions.

They need only wait for the day the sov laser is within their grasp and then the end will arrive.

I would say I agree but I'll probably get jumped on by people misconstruing what I've said.

(I agree)