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Can we also remove standings?
What you have in your alliance ... is blue , every thing else neut.

delayed local \ WH style in 0.0 will collapse intel channel. i cannot imagine the flow of a evening without local. Covert cyno\bridge will become totally invisible... is too different from this gamestyle that i cannot figure.

I think there is no need i explain the problem of cloacky camper is NOT the bad\useless dps of a single t3\bomber but the covert-cyno in tha face they put on you after pointing retards\ratter\hauler.

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as, even small, ceo of SOV holding corp i can assure CCP no one will care nothing about anoms\ratting.
Every single conflict i did in years is about moons.

Providence in system\occupacy\abitants is one of the most densly populated 0.0 and the anoms are quite free and confortably usable but, as i told before, no one of ceo, FC and exec care nothing about doing a sov war for let grunts to mine\rat.
il all other region with more space and less people i think situation is even better.

The potential end of rental empire, is ofc, welcome because they are only a exploit/rule-playng the mechanincs of eveonline.

You're quoting the person that I was quoting as me.
In any case, I wasn't around back then. I don't actually know much about how pre-Dominion sov worked. I started playing just a few weeks before Incarna, and only got involved in sov warfare just before Inferno.

It was a way to drive the logistical ppl crazy.

But the system scaled.

Okay, just to answer this proper question in here:

#1 - I think many people have stated in here just how easy it's going to be abuse mechanics this, especially with the low fitting requirements and a 250km range on the entosis module. Clearing 10+ nodes per each structure is also a bit too heavy and not "enjoyable".
#2 - it is but there are still some unanswered questions (but just minor ones)
#3 - this system gets rid of most "larger" ship demands but it puts even more emphasis on the more pilots aspect. The more pilots you have, the more territory and nodes you can cover.
#4 - it'll reduce the time for seriously unused space - for contested space where people live in...10 nodes per each structure, up to 42 minutes capture time per node, spread over systems. Do the math, this is still going to take hours.
#5 - the indices help, yep - although it would be good to see bigger boni to industry/pve and a different system for anoms in 0.0 in general
#6 - yep this is true and probably the best part, although it'd be better to split it up in less nodes.
#7 - this is somewhat redundant, people WILL adapt in one way or another, even if adapting means quitting. Nobody knows what "future" plans CCP has for 0.0, so we can't answer this.

The problems that people outlined are not tied to these goals directly, but the ramifications of these changes and the things that won't be changed.

# top issue - the entosis link and its current mechanic.

besides that:
#1 - Supercapitals are rendered completely useless, with the notion of "we will look at them in future changes"... wow, helps current super pilots a lot.
#2 - the issue of n+1 still exists and the sheer number of pilots will still prevail.
#3 - the issue of prime time in a global game and different TZ neighbours
#4 - premature freeport stations - station games and TIDI, seriously not a good idea
#5 - this system encourages to keep your neighbours blue
#6 - fatigue could be softened with these changes
#7 - include a system that "regenerates" the status of Sov if the attackers don't show up to actually take the systems
#8 - the issue that a lonely pilot in a frigate can claim sov, make it a team effort

The change proposed by CCP has a couple of key aspects at a strategic level which change the entry level barrier.

- Removal of SBU's, first of all defensive SBU's were a pain to take down, second thing their cost - Benefit to small alliances

- Removal of large EHP pools which required Supers and Titans - Benefit to small alliances

- Ability to RF cheaply - benefit to small alliances as well as large alliances that can go grief large area

- Spliting up of combat into different locations, this enables a small entity to wear then down by picking off - benefit to small alliances

- At the moment there are lots of systems held by a TCU, or a TCU and IHUB with the threat of a all out defence on the last timer of the IHUB and no one in them. With the change those TCU only systems are easy to take, those with the IHUB are as easy to take - benefit to small alliances

The advantages that large alliances have on their defence of anything that they decide to defend is still there, plus of course their ability to splat people, still useful those supers and titans for end game escalation, super useless what bull that is.

On the basis of the above I call bull on Malcannis law and suggest that this change is a step in the right direction, just because a load of bored people can go and be bored reinforcing everything in interceptors makes no real difference.

Small alliances are currently holding sov and have done so in the past, this just makes it a lot easier to grab sov in systems that the large entities will no longer have the will to defend because they will hate being force to defend systems that they don't even want, whereas before they could just use the threat of a large drop to save on the last timer, making it not worthwhile to even try.

Smart small alliances will rf multiple systems, they were then engage to take their target system, if the enemy brings too much they will try to pick off one of the fleets that is tasked with winning one of the 5 active nodes. Rinse and repeat.

Conclusion, yes the large entities can use this, but the smaller entities now have a guerilla level impact on sov space.

So Jenn you can quote Malcannis law until you go blue in the face, come out with your own simpering law, but the reality is that a small entity has had its barrier to taking sov reduced.

Next part is holding sov and using sov.

Holding sov will be difficult and a pain, the simple fact is that IHUB's and stations will be trolled to death and back, so be it, if you cannot defend them then thats an issue. I can see why Provi bloc are upset, they will be everyones whipping boys and they know it.

If you want to gain and hold sov as a small alliance just go the TCU and POS route, that will enable you to have some fun, but understand it will be lost at some point. You should also bear in mind that any good systems will be taken unless they are out on a limb, so making ISK from your low truesec system is not going to happen, its there primarily because you can and want to.

This is where the issues really lie, Eve is a griefing game, the art of stopping people from playing, and these changes enable those people to grief sov easier, in fact Fozzie is about to add to that with his suggestion of delayed local, so no hope there I am afraid, suck that up guys along with instant warping interceptors and anoms that don't need to be probed, and D-scan immunity, as well as old staples like AFK cloaking.

So yes those people who say no value in having sov are correct.

In affect there will be some people who will take sov to get their name on the map and hold it for as long as no one takes exception to them being there, they can go in light and have fun and there will be people doing that because its an end game goal to own sov. I for one will not try to make any ISK in that single system I intend to grab, I intend to get some kills there, maybe get a group of people to use the system to generate fights, but nope ISK generation will be in hisec.

And that is the assessment of someone who has spent the majority of his time in 0.0, however this change is worth it as it lowers the entry barrier in spite of the added griefing that will definitely occur.

That is a pretty good appraisal - Only thing you left out is how long you believe the novelty of taking sov just because you can and not getting anything in return, except a few fights, will last.

My guess - About 6 months, by then the novelty of being griefed out of your sov regularly will have worn off and people just won't bother. The large groups will persevere because they can afford to but the small groups will just give up trying.

Lets all spend 6 months doing Empire and saving isk so we can go take sov for a few weeks and get some fights. Then pack up go back to empire and start over.
Sounds exciting doesn't it

We're facing some dangerous changes here that are really pointing towards the destruction of the playerbase.

First of all, this sov changes are gonna be made to comply with people who actually never/don't live in sov null. This is bad, as the people who's mostly interested in sov changes is the sovnull player base, not the "spectators".
EVE Online is a sandbox, where different gameplays are possible, but with this changes you're trying to turn sovnull into factional warfare 2.0 as a lot of players have already said.
That's a terrible mistake, players living in sov don't like factional warfare. If they would, they'll be grinding fw or raiding small gangs around npc null.

In this past weekend metashow The Mittani declared himself an "empire builder", and I guess the same would apply to the leaders of any alliance. This is an interesting point as it directly guides us to what most of the player base wanna be imo: empire citizens. With different roles, different aspirations, but common goals.
Sov null is, should be, based towards the creation of player-owned empires. It's not because I want to, nor because I like to, it's because that's the motivation behind most of the players out there: be part of something bigger. A group with an identity, sharing objectives, joining big spacefleets that make you feel part of a group.
This changes are a checkmate to the playerbase motivations.

On the other hand on the same metashow, as well as later Grath, progodlegend and many others, leadership from different alliances have said that they like all this changes. They think this is gonna reinvigorate the game, etc. I even remember reading on evenews Fozzie saying that nullsec income is amazinghuejtrillions there's no need to change anything.
Imo they're wrong. They're, obviously, not only intelligent but game-wise people but, as in real politics, sometimes even with the best intention you can lose your connection with the people who is under you.
I hang out on ts/mumble with people from different corporations, backgrounds and motivations, but I'm sure that most of the people is not liking the changes, if still noticed, and that the new mechanics are going to push a lot of people out of nullsec or the game.
Most people is just loggin in to rat for a while, earn isk, and go fighting with their alliance, they don't log into forums or even realize which are the changes to come.
If citizens, aka sovnull residents, would've wanted small warfare: they would be living in lowsec. If they've wanted delayed/no local: they would be living in whs. If anybody thinks line people, who's limited main playtime matches his alliance vulnerability window, is going to stay on null: no, they won't.

If you think a regular guy ratting on VNI or an Ishtar, making ~50M/h is able to sustain the harass rythm interceptor online(aka scylla) is bringing, you're wrong. Just think of all the people whose daily playtime is gonna be 100% focused on defending sov... it's not about people liking/disliking pvp, it's about total madness.

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To Fozzie:

I'd really like to take a look at those metrics which state that nullsec income is alright as it is. Really.
I'm gonna present you the metrics, aka try it yourself.

A casual lvl4 mission runner in highsec makes ~50M/h. A proficient mission blitzer make >75M/h on average, up to >100M/h if he learns to run burners.

An incursion runner goes from ~85M/h, on the worst of goodwilling but unskilled WTM fleet, up to >150M/h on best TVP/ISN fleets.

A greatly-skilled ishtar pilot makes 72M/h PRE-taxes, aka ~60M/h. Given that most line pilots income source is this one, where the hell is the nullsec income is alright as it is?

Those are not metrics, nor stats, nor opinions. This is real EVE man, wake up. This is the same people you wanna make dance around constelations everyday for 4 hours because "they make big money hehe".
Your stats are biased, if not negligently worked out. There are pilots, like me, who multibox carriers and whose income is "great" (lmao at risk-reward) but you're laughing at the majority of guys out there, in nullsec, sustaining your game.

About supers, as a former entrepreneur I can't think of a better business policy than laughing on your most loyal and higher investment clients. Everything else has already be said.


If you stick to your late proposals, and way of thinking, EVE Online is doomed.

So many tears! <3 You Foozie!

I think no matter how you look at all these changes it will cost CCP a fcton of subs.

From Super pilots to burned out nullsec players getting fed up with constand defence fleets day in day out.

Multiple accounts will be closed to as there is no need for cyno alts or multiple ratting accounts to farm for expensive ratting fits / supers / titans.

I start to wonder how many dev's need to pack their bags this time next year with all the subscription losses that might be comming after June.

*Snip* Please refrain from discussing other (non-EvE/Dust/Valkyrie) games. ISD Ezwal.