EVE Information Portal

Actually, I lived in w-space for a few years. It's fun, but it's not what I'm after. I like the big fights. I've found the happiest I've been in this game is winding the logi of a fleet through the middle of a massive slugfest involving 4 enemy fleets and a broken grid in 10% tidi. I like it when there's a challenge, and I have to be on top of my game (because in tidi, every delay in changing my mind or evaluating things is magnified. It feels like you have all the time in the world, but that's all a lie).

You don't get that kind of thing in w-space. Not really. Sure, the big toys come out, but it's never the same. But I'd hardly call it 'ego-pumping' or myself one of 'the dictators'. I'm a fleet guy, that's pretty much it. I want to do things where skill, and judgment, and the ability to keep calm under pressure can make a difference. Small gang stuff never feels like that to me - it always feels like the initial encounter determines everything. Someone screws up, everyone's toast. In a big fleet action, if the FC screws up, yeah, we're gonna take a pounding - but if I'm on my game, I can minimize how bad that's going to be. S'just my thing, I guess. I'm weird. I love the tidi.

And just how much stuff can I have? Just now looking at something bigger than a destroyer.
You must fly around a pretty big ship for those cojones.

Pfft. If we couldn't be snarky, we'd have to go mad. ;)



That's the $64,000 question, now isn't it? 'Why should I want to hold sov?'

I mean, clearly, it's not the money. If you want to maximize your money, there are better ways - C5-6 w-space, faction warfare, etc, all of which don't require you pay CONCORD just to live where you live. Are those things always better money? Probably not, but they're almost certainly better on a cost/benefit analysis. FW has multiple stations in most of their systems, you don't have to worry about upkeep, the very thing that makes you money is what give you control of the system, etc etc. W-space, you've got a dangerous environment, but if you're smart and alert, you can pretty well control access to your space in a way null residents can't, and when you do go to do your space-job, the money is definitely better in terms of isk/man-hour.

So why do it?

Right now, it's basically just to plant a flag, to say 'we built this'. As it is, though... what've you really built? Deploying a station egg's a big deal for some, for others... it's an ALOD. IHUBs are important, but they're important as a means of making it harder to take your stuff, mostly, and making a bit of improvement on what's already there.

So what, really, do the empire-builders build? Transportation networks were a thing... but the Phoebe changes crushed those - they're very much a 'emergencies only' thing now. They used to be a seriously quality-of-life improvement. People talk about 'player-built stargates', well... that's what jumpbridges are, in most regards. So, if they put in player-built stargates, and someone builds a route that allows people to go across space in a way that's convenient... will that be too much force projection?

Or is it only too much because we do it? Because the blocs do it?

And if there's an arbitrary 'you're doing too well', then... why bother? Why do something if you're not going to be allowed to succeed? Why advertise the ability to do something if it's going to be a lie, because the company's going to take your money while you work toward your goal, but make damned sure that if you actually build something that stands above the competition, you're going to get beaten down?

Don't get me wrong, we don't want null to be static. Static is boring as hell. That's why a lot of us are for the concepts in play here, we're just not sure of the exact execution of those concepts. 4 hours a day? We've got people around the world, why should we get enthused about 'hey, half our members, you're going to be bored' combined with 'hey, other half of our members, you're not going to have any time to do your own thing'?

Giving the system variety allows the people doing their own thing - as long as they're contributing, as long as they are part of making that space a living, populated environment - a way to be valuable in the protection of the system. And systems that aren't used are more and more vulnerable.

Putting in more things that function as solid quality-of-life improvements for the people who live in the space they own provides them a reason to live there, and a reason to own their space instead of just living there.

Imagine if you could live in w-space, and have Local work. For you, because it's your hole. Someone comes in, you see them. Maybe they don't see you. But to get this ability, you have to claim that system, and you have to defend it. You would, wouldn't you?

I think that attacking SOV in any form should be considered a serious endeavor by the aggressor and not just an attack on SOV for kicks and giggles. I am concerned about the burnout that will inevitably occur with line members and FC's in the primetime window. I believe that this scenario can be partially managed by War Dec's.

The current War Dec mechanism vexes me because it really isnt a true war declaration but rather a just a mechanism to initiate hostilities in HS. I dont propose to change the current war dec mechanism (for all you Jita to Amarr pipe campers) but I think it should be renamed to "Writ of Hostility" (or something else) but it would not extend to attacks on sov.

Then implement a new War Declaration mechanism which is truly what it should be. A Declaration of War.

For a cost more than the Current War Declarations (possibly based on member size) you can open hostilities against another Alliance or Corporation sov structures. This War Dec could be performed at the Alliance OR Corp level and against a specific Alliance OR Corp. War Dec's made against a Corp would allow the Corps Alliance members to join in the war but only if they also pay the War Dec (or perhaps some form of Support Dec) cost at a reduced cost. The specific details would have to be worked out obviously, but this mechanic would:
- have a 24 (48?) hour warning of impending attack
- prevent drive-by SOV attacks thus allowing primetime line members and FC's some opportunity to perhaps rest between wars or do some farming.
- have the loss of a SOV system create a Casus Belli for the loser of the system so that they could retaliate on the aggressor in the future at a much reduced War Dec cost.
- Costs based on the number of members in the Alliance or Corp (Defenders need never spend more than the value of the Aggressor if the Defender is larger than the Aggressor). This requires the attackers or defenders to make choices on how much force (in Corps and Alliances) they feel they need to apply to obtain the objective.

It seems to me that this could open up some interesting dynamics such Corp vrs Corp wars (without drawing in the entire Alliance), or having some Corps in a different Alliance providing support to the targeted (or attacking) Corp to deny (or achieve) specific objectives. And possibly internal drama in the alliance if the defending Corp is not well liked.

What I like about it is that it uses an existing mechanism in the form of War Dec's, and just enhances it. It also mirrors our own planet where if a country is attacked then other countries can support them or not at their choice. I recognize that there is probably lots of holes and pitfalls in this idea but I'm sure some of you can flesh out the idea more.

Because most people are stupid.

That's Malcanis' law. Jenn's law is "No matter how many times reality proves Malcanis' law is true, people, including professional game developers, will forget the past 11 seconds later, like big ass human shaped gold fish"

Still refining the wording of my law there, but you get the gist.

I'm not convinced. If an attacking Corp or small alliance has 50 members I think there will be some thought put into that decision. The defender will have to decide if they want to pay for 15000 members to defend the sov of one corp? Likely they will assign a specific set of Corps that is suitably sized to handle the threat. Perhaps 500 members. Either way it requires decisions to be made and CCP is very much in favor of players having to make decisions

I would like to thank you CCP for giving me my life back because if the change go thought as is I will unsub all 18 account. I will do this because even thought you say that you have people in Null sec. You have know Idea how this game you make works. Sov dose need to change but not this way. The best this that could happen to this game would be for CCP Fozzie to be fired Because he must have stock in star citizen or elite dangerous. Because he doesn't want anyone to play eve anymore

Hey look a guy that can not evolve darwinism at its finest folks right here. So can I see what characters you are selling because I want to go from a 8 account setup to like 20 I like my alts we party hearty everynight. But seriously hit me up with a sale thread.

Problem is though, they don't need to pay for a war dec, they can simply support them by going there and killing the attackers.