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Go Fozzie! These changes will really shake things up and cause the stagnant nulsec groups to get out there and start moving around outside the blob. These changes sound like they will make nulsec life far more dynamic and interesting.

I am super excited and so should every small and medium sized corp across the galaxy.
Warfare is going to feel a lot more like special ops tactical and a lot less like trench warfare.

So again, what's the problem? You guys are making 100bil/month on high end moons in Dekelin, on top of nearly 50m/hour nearly passive income ratting.

Bottom Line: If null were more valuable, then you could charge more for rent.

Well, what data are they using? Bear in mind that raw isk/hr or bounty pay out data is not going to give an accurate account of money made. Isk/hr has to be calculated after losses (ship ganked) and costs in isk (logistics, rent paid) and/or opportunity cost activity (time spent on CTA to secure the space). A typical CTA of 150 pilots for example could equal 450 man hours needed to be applied to the total isk/hr ratio and by the sounds of this sytem we'll be having a lot more of that. I obviously don't know what they are using but when soneome says "they're making a **** ton of isk out in null" sounds like someone is just looking at some graph of bounties.

You wouldn't want people judging incursion income on the logic of 31.5mil per site from the time you log in to the time logged out, because you know there are variables - fleet waiting time, moving time, contests and so on.

As was said earlier

"Every small medium corp should be excited about this"

Sooooo as a larger group what benefit do I get? There already is small medium corps/groups visiting us frequently enough; and they just got another avenue to be a serious pain in the ass (which requires nothing but one module to deviate from their normal operating procedures) now there is a very real consequence to not feel like playing with them from time to time.

So let's see ccp's great sov changes amount to 1) turning traveling into gameplay and 2) giving another way for ceptors to be trolls and space whack a mole...... 10 years and this is the best you can do?? I'd rather grind structures than chase ceptors around.....

So are we ignoring what Mike said about anecdotal evidence versus the data in CCP's hands?

edit: Also, for a humble 'salvager' I probably SPEND more than most people in CFC on pvp each month lol

I'm sorry to say that I disagree with you Mike.

It's surprisingly easy to figure out solid figures for individual level PvE income generation in null. And even with the best-case scenarios assuming optimal variables, figures for null are simply not able to compete with other venues in different types of space. Again, through experience, it relatively is easy to figure out averages of individual income amounts that other venues offer, and CCP's raw internal data can only be in line with this.

The only way an individual living in sovereign null and wanting to do PvE can hope to compete with low-sec FW L4 income, j-space PvE income and even high-sec income is through scaling up the number of accounts and characters that he uses for his PvE activity. As a null resident, do I have to scale up to five active accounts or more to be competitive with a single account can earn in other types of space? Can anyone call this good game design, or fair? And yet, here you are, toeing the line that CCP has been telling us all along, that they somehow have internal data that refutes obvious figures that anyone can calculate on their own.

There is more, but I personally shudder to think about considering that as a possibility. Perhaps this is done blatantly on part of developers. Only party that benefits from a null resident having to scale up his subscriptions and number of accounts is... CCP.

I will have to assume that what you are probably mixing up analysis with raw data and might be implying that the conclusions CCP reaches through their own analysis is vastly different. I'm surprised that you are able to call raw data as anecdotal evidence.

Lastly, I personally see this as an opportunity for a case-study, but that will have to take place on a different venue than EVE Online forums, and it certainly is a bidding for later time. However, I feel as if this unfairness and blatant misdirection coming from CSM members and even CCP developers is an issue that all null residents should be aware of and should react against.

Are we able to see CCP's internal data? No.

Can we measure up constants, account for variables with best and worse case scenarios, do the math ourselves and make comparisons? Absolutely.

Within the scope of even simple mathematics, would our data have a chance of deviating seriously from CCP's data? Not at all.

Besides, I don't believe even a CSM member such as Mike is privy to the full scope and content of CCP's internal data. As such, I find it curious that he appears so keen on referring to something we or -probably- himself does not have access to.

However, as I mentioned, we can very well calculate individual income through personal experience, or in the absence of that, experimentation, or even mathematical deduction. That data is reliable and it will always be consistent with any private data that CCP can hope to gain on the very same individual activity, with the same variables.

I'm sad to see that a CSM member is just toeing CCP's line which is "We know better than you guys can figure out through our mythical private, internal data" here. Anybody, even a high-sec salvager that feels comfortable to comment on life in a type of space he has never lived in, can calculate individual level income for different types of space. Mike, may I remind you that your duty and responsibility as a CSM member is raising player issues and looking after the interests of the player-base, not covering for CCP by reciting their official line.

Tell me, why, as a null resident, do I have sustain over five subscriptions every month if I prefer to live in null and take actual risks, versus running a single account at Faction Warfare and earning the same ISK?

Note to the high-sec salvager: Are you able to read numbers? If yes, then you will figure out that 15% of my ratting income goes to the alliance to accommodate my monthly SRP allowance of 1B ISK, that solely covers PvP ship losses. Therefore, I'm extremely confident that throughout my all accounts, I end up spending way more every month than you do, or ever did before, for PvP.

Why? Only because it's your choice.

What others do to earn ISK and how much they earn shouldn't even matter. If you can make enough ISK to sustain your gameplay, then how much others earn is not important.

The whole comparison is pointless because all the choices others make are totally available to you also.

That you chose a different option is no problem. But you make that choice knowing what the risks are and what is required to manage them.

Wrong.

Living in sovereign null is obviously a personal choice and a challenge, and one that I took up gladly. But absence of rewards in comparison with other types of space is simply developer neglect, or perhaps even worse, incompetence.

EVE is a sandbox designed around risk-reward balance in every type of activity you can imagine. But, curiously and suspiciously, the reward for PvE at sovereign null is missing in action.

I personally fight and provide resources as an individual to be able to hold the space and I live in and protect my assets. I have to do this every day, without exceptions.

The high-sec L4 runner, who can earn almost the double I can make with a single character per hour, doesn't have to put any serious assets at risk unless he is blinging unreasonably. He doesn't have to defend his access to the space he is living in. He doesn't have to do PvP.

The low-sec FW L4 runner, who can -ridiculously- make as high as EIGHT times (400M every hour) what I can make in an hour on a single account, does so with a cheap T2 frigate. He can avoid PvP if he knows what he is doing. If he doesn't, than all he loses is a 25 to 30M stealth bomber, only a fraction of the ISK he makes in an hour.

Wormholes? Don't even get me started on wormholes. I advise anyone to look into the practices of established wormhole corporations regarding PvE. They farm the systems they reside in after virtually sealing it off from the rest of EVE, maintaining eyes and slowing down barriers in every current entrance to that j-space system. Any risk of PvP is nearly eliminated. In reutrn, their individual level of PvE income is nearing, an in some cases, reaching a billion ISK per hour.

Tell me now, whereas all these people are getting rewarded extravagantly through CCP's game design choices, why is yours truly have to take the bum end of the deal, even when he is taking all of the risks in this game? Why is he forced to scale up the number of subscriptions and making CCP financial statements look tidy to be able to compete with the hourly income of a single account can generate in all other types of space, including high-sec?

My thoughts and feelings on the matter at hand echo your post very closely. Thank you.