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Let me tell you why people are killing highsec miners. A manifesto.

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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#381 - 2011-12-08 17:48:18 UTC
I'd like to respond to the OP:

Jesus fracking Christ!

Don't ban me, bro!
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#382 - 2011-12-08 18:05:14 UTC
Stahlregen wrote:
Demosthenes returns.

James 315, I believe this to be one of, if not the most poignant and heart-felt of your many essays.

The fact that your powerful manifesto of Eve's currently disheartening zero-risk empire zeitgeist resulted in 14 pages of posts, (most of which only serves to prove your arguments regarding the insidious and corrupting thought processes of the self-enslaved-hisec-miner) is truly a testament to your oratory prowess.

As a long-time follower of Karttoon's teachings it gives me much pleasure to see that while the directorate of my own alliance has since tried to distance themselves from the one true prophet his lessons have not been forgotten.

I am afraid that until exclusively empire players are willing to apply a modicum of self-analysis and realise the stupidity in their own self-inflicted misery your valiant struggle will never end. Although that is perfectly alright because as you say; Those willing to give up their own possessions in order to take away those of the mewling, unthinking masses will always hold the initiative, relegating their victims into a perpetual reactionary stance, forever on the back-foot and forever held to the whims of those with the intelligence and drive to control them.

Never forget that you are not alone in this.


Does anyone else hear a strange, slurping noise?
"If."
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#383 - 2011-12-08 18:09:07 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Demosthenes returns.

James 315, I believe this to be one of, if not the most poignant and heart-felt of your many essays.

The fact that your powerful manifesto of Eve's currently disheartening zero-risk empire zeitgeist resulted in 14 pages of posts, (most of which only serves to prove your arguments regarding the insidious and corrupting thought processes of the self-enslaved-hisec-miner) is truly a testament to your oratory prowess.

As a long-time follower of Karttoon's teachings it gives me much pleasure to see that while the directorate of my own alliance has since tried to distance themselves from the one true prophet his lessons have not been forgotten.

I am afraid that until exclusively empire players are willing to apply a modicum of self-analysis and realise the stupidity in their own self-inflicted misery your valiant struggle will never end. Although that is perfectly alright because as you say; Those willing to give up their own possessions in order to take away those of the mewling, unthinking masses will always hold the initiative, relegating their victims into a perpetual reactionary stance, forever on the back-foot and forever held to the whims of those with the intelligence and drive to control them.

Never forget that you are not alone in this.


Does anyone else hear a strange, slurping noise?


I'm sorry, not everyone lives one room away from where your mom works.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#384 - 2011-12-08 18:16:54 UTC
@op You should never go full ******. Regardless of whether your "manifesto" is correct or incorrect, no one should give that much of a **** about it.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#385 - 2011-12-08 18:17:11 UTC
the OP fails to even mention low/null ratting and mining botters as if high sec botters are the only ones in existence.

the fact that botting exists at all is a testament to the fail of the UI that eve has. you have to admit if the ways for navigating through EVE were changed to be more interactive and less clicky clicky, there would be hardly any way to bot. also, in regards to mining bots, if you have ever cleared an asteroid belt AT KEYBOARD, you would know the true reason why botting exists. it is the absolute MOST boring way in eve to make isk and is THE most boring activity in EVE hands down.

I have never tried to bot while mining (and wouldn't want to anyways) and with it's gruesome lack of entertainment value I can see why some do. Its a flat out boring activity and as creative of a thinker I think I tend to be, I cannot seem to think of a solution that would make it a bit less boring.

I think the OP is just jealous because he secretly wants to be a bot and enslave himself to the ISK gods.
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#386 - 2011-12-08 18:29:37 UTC
James 315 wrote:
They even complain that suicide ganking isn't risky, despite the fact that it carries a 100% risk of losing your ship.


Actually, at 100% it is no longer a risk, it is a cost (you don't risk $5.00 when you go and buy a $5.00 sandwich, that is a cost of going and buying the sandwich. You do risk dying of malnutrition from eating nothing but $5.00 sandwiches (or your local equivalent), at least based on what seems to generally be in them... it certainly isn't "food").

Other than that, quite entertaining.
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#387 - 2011-12-08 18:37:02 UTC
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Nephilius wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Demosthenes returns.

James 315, I believe this to be one of, if not the most poignant and heart-felt of your many essays.

The fact that your powerful manifesto of Eve's currently disheartening zero-risk empire zeitgeist resulted in 14 pages of posts, (most of which only serves to prove your arguments regarding the insidious and corrupting thought processes of the self-enslaved-hisec-miner) is truly a testament to your oratory prowess.

As a long-time follower of Karttoon's teachings it gives me much pleasure to see that while the directorate of my own alliance has since tried to distance themselves from the one true prophet his lessons have not been forgotten.

I am afraid that until exclusively empire players are willing to apply a modicum of self-analysis and realise the stupidity in their own self-inflicted misery your valiant struggle will never end. Although that is perfectly alright because as you say; Those willing to give up their own possessions in order to take away those of the mewling, unthinking masses will always hold the initiative, relegating their victims into a perpetual reactionary stance, forever on the back-foot and forever held to the whims of those with the intelligence and drive to control them.

Never forget that you are not alone in this.


Does anyone else hear a strange, slurping noise?


I'm sorry, not everyone lives one room away from where your mom works.


That's the best you can come up with? What a sad little child you are.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#388 - 2011-12-08 18:53:15 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:
Nephilius wrote:
Stahlregen wrote:
Demosthenes returns.

James 315, I believe this to be one of, if not the most poignant and heart-felt of your many essays.

The fact that your powerful manifesto of Eve's currently disheartening zero-risk empire zeitgeist resulted in 14 pages of posts, (most of which only serves to prove your arguments regarding the insidious and corrupting thought processes of the self-enslaved-hisec-miner) is truly a testament to your oratory prowess.

As a long-time follower of Karttoon's teachings it gives me much pleasure to see that while the directorate of my own alliance has since tried to distance themselves from the one true prophet his lessons have not been forgotten.

I am afraid that until exclusively empire players are willing to apply a modicum of self-analysis and realise the stupidity in their own self-inflicted misery your valiant struggle will never end. Although that is perfectly alright because as you say; Those willing to give up their own possessions in order to take away those of the mewling, unthinking masses will always hold the initiative, relegating their victims into a perpetual reactionary stance, forever on the back-foot and forever held to the whims of those with the intelligence and drive to control them.

Never forget that you are not alone in this.


Does anyone else hear a strange, slurping noise?


I'm sorry, not everyone lives one room away from where your mom works.


That's the best you can come up with? What a sad little child you are.


Mirror mirror.

Haha now YOU are the sad little child

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#389 - 2011-12-08 19:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mortis vonShadow
Krios Ahzek wrote:

I'm sorry, not everyone lives one room away from where your mom works.

That's the best you can come up with? What a sad little child you are.

Mirror mirror.

Haha now YOU are the sad little child


Wait. I'm a child because you referred to someones mother? Not only are you a child, but you're one of those "special" childs that has to wear a helmet.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#390 - 2011-12-08 20:01:58 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:

I'm sorry, not everyone lives one room away from where your mom works.

That's the best you can come up with? What a sad little child you are.

Mirror mirror.

Haha now YOU are the sad little child


Wait. I'm a child because you referred to someones mother? Not only are you a child, but you're one of those "special" childs that has to wear a helmet.


No, you both are children for poasting silly little one liners in the hope that you insult the other person enough to cause them to feel negative emotions.

Very childish, not to mention naive.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#391 - 2011-12-08 20:03:28 UTC
Alyssa Yotosala wrote:
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:

I'm sorry, not everyone lives one room away from where your mom works.

That's the best you can come up with? What a sad little child you are.

Mirror mirror.

Haha now YOU are the sad little child


Wait. I'm a child because you referred to someones mother? Not only are you a child, but you're one of those "special" childs that has to wear a helmet.


No, you both are children for poasting silly little one liners in the hope that you insult the other person enough to cause them to feel negative emotions.

Very childish, not to mention naive.


Two liner, impressive.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#392 - 2011-12-08 20:14:34 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Krios Ahzek wrote:

I'm sorry, not everyone lives one room away from where your mom works.

That's the best you can come up with? What a sad little child you are.

Mirror mirror.

Haha now YOU are the sad little child


Wait. I'm a child because you referred to someones mother? Not only are you a child, but you're one of those "special" childs that has to wear a helmet.


Yes! How did you guess?
For your information I'm wearing this helmet to shackle my vast powers and prevent them from inadvertently frying your brain's humor centers.

... Yeah I should crank the Psywards up a notch .

Alyssa Yotosala wrote:


Very childish, not to mention naive.


OH YEAH? Well you smell of stinky poo

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Inago Yaki
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#393 - 2011-12-08 20:20:18 UTC
::Rapping on podium:: Claaasss! Class! Stop that fussing among yourselves and get back to insulting the OP!
Handsome Hussein
#394 - 2011-12-08 20:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Handsome Hussein
"NO U" games > Space Barbie

EDIT: Oh ****, wrong thread! Oops

Leaves only the fresh scent of pine.
ReptilesBlade
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#395 - 2011-12-08 20:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ReptilesBlade
Bill Lane wrote:
You're an idiot. Finished the whole first post, wasn't worth my time to continue on.


This, I got half way through post 3 when I just stopped. There are so many fallacies in the OPs arguments there is not even room enough on the Internet to point them out.

You suicide gank because you have a small penis and you want to compensate for it. That is all there is to it.
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#396 - 2011-12-08 20:33:00 UTC
Inago Yaki wrote:
::Rapping on podium:: Claaasss! Class! Stop that fussing among yourselves and get back to insulting the OP!


Don't mind me I'm just being FABULOUS! while nearly everybody else keeps insisting on answering the OP in a serious manner.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
#397 - 2011-12-08 20:47:10 UTC
ReptilesBlade wrote:
Bill Lane wrote:
You're an idiot. Finished the whole first post, wasn't worth my time to continue on.


This, I got half way through post 3 when I just stopped. There are so many fallacies in the OPs arguments there is not even room enough on the Internet to point them out.

You suicide gank because you have a small ***** and you want to compensate for it. That is all there is to it.
It's great to see the manifesto striking more nerves.

Keep the butthurt coming!

Witty Image - Stream

Not Liking this post hurts my RL feelings and will be considered harassment
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#398 - 2011-12-10 16:38:55 UTC
The Eve community's response to The Manifesto has been overwhelming. In addition to all of the encouraging replies and Likes in this thread, I can't tell you how many people sent me evemails to express their support, or asked for tips on killing highsec miners, or told me they have been inspired to conduct more suicide attacks. For the first time in my Eve career, I am proud of the Eve playerbase, because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback.

Obviously the vast majority of players are in full agreement with me, as you can see from the replies in this thread. That having been said, there is still a handful of people who think they can justify the activities of miners in highsec, so we'll certainly need to deal with those individuals and make corrections. I would like to address each of the comments made in this thread. Speaking personally, I reject the stifling idea of chronological order, so I will go about this in a manner of my choosing. They may be older replies, they may be newer replies, but I hope to get to all of them eventually.

I'll start with Teamosil's reply, because he makes a point that seems to be repeated by a lot of highsec apologists, and it needs to be debunked.

Teamosil wrote:
Also, I think you're falling prey to the standard "my way of playing the game is the best" assumption... Different people like playing the game different ways. There are tons of interesting things you can do in eve that don't involve pvp. Maybe you don't like them as much as some other guy does, maybe you haven't learned enough about those professions to get why they're fun. You aren't the only person in the universe. Your preferences are not universal. As long as you enjoy the way you're playing it, that's great, but that doesn't mean the next guy won't have more fun playing it a different way. Don't just assume that the only options are pirate or miner. There are like 1,000 different professions in the game. Some of them only a handful of people have ever mastered.


I fundamentally disagree with the notion that just because a certain thing is permitted by Eve game mechanics it must be accepted and treated as legitimate. The idea expressed here is totally at odds with the concept of civilization and humanity. Let's walk through a thought experiment so we can all see just how wrong it is:

When someone sets fire to an orphanage, hoping to murder all of the defenseless children inside, or if someone organizes an act of widespread genocide (as purportedly occurred during World War II), what happens? Does a box pop up, telling the person that their "fire-making module" has been deactivated? Or that there isn't enough powergrid available to activate the gas chamber? Of course not. Reality allows these things to take place, just as Eve's game mechanics allow highsec mining. Please note that I am not saying there is a moral equivalence between murder/genocide and mining. I'm not taking a position on that either way.

What I am saying is that simply because something is a possible activity does not justify it. In real life, we all agree that certain possible activities are acceptable, while other activities are not. When someone commits murder, they aren't excused by saying "That's just how I like to live my life. It's my play style." It's true of Eve as well. When someone spies on his alliance or spams comms or steals from his corporation, what's the reaction? Do people let him go on stealing because it's his play style? No. They kick him out.

The same principle should be--I argue, must be--applied in highsec. When someone goes to an asteroid belt or ice field in highsec to engage in inappropriate activity (e.g. mining), he should be kicked out. If Eve's game mechanics didn't allow for highsec mining, the suicide attacks wouldn't be necessary. But because it's possible to mine, that's the whole reason it's necessary to tell people they can't play that way, and to stop them if they persist.

I'm not in the business of upsetting people. I'd prefer to reason with them, and get them to stop mining voluntarily. But as with real life, if people won't respond to the power of persuasion, we have to use the persuasion of power. We'll force them to stop mining, because the people of Eve have agreed that mining in highsec is no longer going to be tolerated.

MinerBumping.com
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2011-12-10 17:36:20 UTC
Ah, but what if it's YOUR game play that comes under fire? Would you (James 315) have the same feelings if CCP came in and made ganking a bannable offense? It's a good question to consider since the thought process is an exercise in testing the validity of actions/ ideas. Would you still feel that it's a valid game style even though it had been deemed invalid?

Where DO you stand on null sec and low sec miners?

Do you kill your alliance's own miners?

If your alliance has no miners or industrialists, where do your ships come from(the mommy ship and daddy ship is not the answer eitherP)?

If you do kill your own miners, what does your CEO think about that?

How do you respond to the flood of alliance sponsored bots? do you kill them or happily partake in their production while complaining about others?

What are your feelings about the null sec blocks protection policies toward null sec botting? In particular, how do you feel about the person who kicked this little game off by stating it was an anti-bot campain right after publicly stating goons would be kicked for killing goon bots?

Serious questions I am curious about.
Pavel Bidermann
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#400 - 2011-12-10 18:01:40 UTC
Okay, does anyone want to respond to these questions? I know James is here since he just posted above the questions, but whatever. I'm sure he'll be back. I'm curious how this manifesto (aka slanted justification) ties into justifying these issues. they are commected by the justifications he gave in the OP whether he likes it or not.

It isn't "butt hurt" since I'm not currently mining and haven't for some time. I am going back to it though. Like James, I too am heading back to high sec. We just have different reasons.