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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Skill Points remapping/buying™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-02-26 00:33:07 UTC
Diemos Hiaraki wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
[
And there is the problem...there is no such thing as a skillpoint gap in the end. You can only train a specific set of skills to level V to max out any hull, weapon system or career path. Everybody can get to the same level depending on their focus they just do it a bit faster or slower depending upon the implants they are willing to risk for the reward of slightly faster training.

The idea of somehow catching up to older players in SP is a fallacy. Firstly you never need to and secondly why should you? Someone with a 10 year older character should always have a lead in total SP as they've been here longer. It is their reward for loyalty. Ultimately however they will have the exact same maximum applicable skills in frigates for instance as a 1 year old player who purely focused on small ship combat skills.

That is why I advocate keeping the current system. It is player perceptions and attitudes that are off kilter, not the system.

The current system cannot be gamed.
The current system rewards risking high cost implants with marginally faster training.
The current system always allows any player to catch up to another player ultimately in any applicable sub-set of skills.


I do agree that attitudes are off kilter in a great many areas not just this one, but I do disagree that perceived issues or actual issues are things to be ignored while CCP aren't doing great financially.

If clone costs were still a thing I'd agree with you on your other points, however vets have good reason to undock now clone costs are gone, but young and those who think they really need a boost to skillpoint gain are crippled with costs not proportionate for those gains. The vet who is already skilled is empowered, and in many cases can fit a decent sized catalyst fleet for what they would have paid in clone costs per month. I refuse to accept that there's a risk vs reward thing going on here when vets can pretty much do what they want for no cost while a new player looks at ISIS and sees mastery of a rookie ship taking 602-785 days, thinks 'cybernetics is a thing,' then stays docked up playing skillpoints online for a high cost and then gets bored and quits. It's simply bad business from my perspective.

We aren't going to agree so I'll leave it here. Thanks for making your points politely even though we are opposed - I really appreciate it.



There's never any reason not to be polite in a real discussion and opposing views are vital to get a balanced overview of the proposal. If a player stays docked to play sp online then they weren't shown one way or another that doing so is self-defeating no matter what they think. you earn isk by flying and have fun doing so. That's all a player should really be concerned with, everything else is just icing on the game cake.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#62 - 2015-02-26 01:17:54 UTC
the furthest i would EVER go is an SP RE-allocation and very limited 1 time at that, and that is stretching things in my mind as is, in my mind its a bad idea for any messing with how SP are gained, this is how its been since the dawn of EVE, why should some folks get a free pass cause there wallet is bigger than others, i pay a sub for this game cause i know im on a level playing field as everyone else and i think it would be an incredibly bad idea to take that aspect away from the game.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#63 - 2015-02-26 01:45:09 UTC
Paid cheating damages the integrity of the sandbox.

That's why I'm against RMT (and accept the PLEX system as a lesser evil, as it reduces unsanctioned RMT which comes with a lot of account hacking, just ask World of Warcraft players how common hacked accounts are there).

And it's why I'm against this stupid proposal.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Forstbyte
Spark In The Dark
#64 - 2015-02-26 13:00:21 UTC
Buying SP? NO

Remapping SP? Great idea, but... limited to one time a year for 10% (?) of your total SP.
This should be enough for every vet to wash his first char noob-mistakes away.
Memphis Baas
#65 - 2015-02-26 13:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
No to buying SP.

Yes to remapping SP, limited (once a year or whatever). Although it will probably destroy character sales, as you're just buying a name and a quantity of SP. So that would be buying SP.

Yes to buying SP, then, and ban character sales, save yourself the manhours required to make sure there are no scams with them.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#66 - 2015-02-26 14:04:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Paid cheating damages the integrity of the sandbox.

That's why I'm against RMT (and accept the PLEX system as a lesser evil, as it reduces unsanctioned RMT which comes with a lot of account hacking, just ask World of Warcraft players how common hacked accounts are there).

And it's why I'm against this stupid proposal.


Succinctly put.

If either skill remapping or SP purchase came in it would be time to biomass and find something else to spend my time on.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Antonio Steele
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2015-02-26 23:42:15 UTC
How about if or when they get rid of attributes for training, we create the ability to remap skill points once a year for a price. Limit of once a year means rich people not constantly changing. Also it would be good to scale the cost to the SP of the character unless it is a set amount of SP a year, and maybe also make each consecutive remap cost exponentially more on top of the SP cost modifier.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#68 - 2015-02-27 00:15:31 UTC
While I Grrrrrrr Ezwal for making another thread about this, I also like the fact that this means he can lock all the new and existing threads on the subject and make them post their drivel here.

Im very conflicted about how I should feel about you right now Ezwal..


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#69 - 2015-02-27 01:54:40 UTC
one of the major positive aspects of Eve Online is your ability to train not just vertically but horizontally. SP remapping for ISK or PLEX basically destroys this because now training vertically = training horizontally.

You just remap SP from one now semi-nerfed area to another, eliminating the need to actually train something new.

Yes it may give instant gratification but it destroys any appreciable perception of achievement.

It also vastly favours old player much more than newer players when you're trying to claim that a new or newish character can be combat viable in pvp at an early age.


So no, just no.
Dave Stark
#70 - 2015-02-27 11:40:43 UTC
if sp remapping were a thing, it should be a one off thing for accounts under 12 months old (or 12 months worth of SP) so new players can get rid of those ****** mining skills they accidentally trained and not something for veterans to abuse so they can have all Vs in the latest fotm ship.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2015-02-27 11:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Dave Stark wrote:
if sp remapping were a thing, it should be a one off thing for accounts under 12 months old (or 12 months worth of SP) so new players can get rid of those ****** mining skills they accidentally trained and not something for veterans to abuse so they can have all Vs in the latest fotm ship.


It would still be abusable, simply remap and add implants to max out 2 attributes, train up a load of skills on just those attributes then at 11 months, 29 days, 23hours and 59 mins remap the SP to you actually desired skills. That's the extreme case but this would still speed up specific alt creation stupidly in any given area

Ed: Just to be clear it's and absolute and emphatic no to any form of SP remapping in any way ever from me
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#72 - 2015-02-27 12:01:06 UTC
i would say SP purchasing however is actually a thing, its called buying a character from character bazaar.

But then actually making an official ISK for SP mechanic available will force a fair amount of people who actually make characters to sell, to be put completely out in the cold.

in fact it would totally decimate the character bazaar, which would be a crying shame.
Dave Stark
#73 - 2015-02-27 12:09:09 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
if sp remapping were a thing, it should be a one off thing for accounts under 12 months old (or 12 months worth of SP) so new players can get rid of those ****** mining skills they accidentally trained and not something for veterans to abuse so they can have all Vs in the latest fotm ship.


It would still be abusable, simply remap and add implants to max out 2 attributes, train up a load of skills on just those attributes then at 11 months, 29 days, 23hours and 59 mins remap the SP to you actually desired skills. That's the extreme case but this would still speed up specific alt creation stupidly in any given area

Ed: Just to be clear it's and absolute and emphatic no to any form of SP remapping in any way ever from me


and how much extra SP is that really going to yield vs the current system of just training gunnery or core skills exclusively at the expense fo the other, then remapping and doing the other half?

to be honest, i agree it shouldn't happen at all. i'd just like to see CCP scrap attributes, learning implants, and remaps and just be done with it. sure the system is "interesting" but never in a million years would i describe it as "good".
Sony Ichosira
Doomheim
#74 - 2015-02-27 12:36:38 UTC
I have not read every post in this thread but here is what I've got to say. A lot of people say that eve is dying. This is not entirely true in my opinion (I'm playing this game for about 6-7 years now). But, in the moment you, CCP, will implement any of the mentioned changes, related to changing PLEX for SP/remaps/anything related to skills/character itself then ONE thing will happen:


EvE



WILL



D I E


In the matter of months. If you'll implement any of these changes, you'll destroy the unique system which only EvE online has, and all players that are attracted to this game (as imo, this is the only MMO worth playing atm), will just leave and never come back.

Just saying.
Sony
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#75 - 2015-02-27 13:38:21 UTC
An amazing absence of blue posts so I'll just try and force it. Can any CSM/Dev tell us what CCP's stance is on this issue and if it's being discussed internally, regardless of how (in)formal it may be.

This is one of those festering rumours that WILL result in drama which could have so easily been taken care of if only CCP would have been smart enough to make an obvious, unambiguous, statement on it before the **** hits the fan. We've been in that situation before, I'm not interested in going back to it.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2015-02-27 15:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
1750 aurum for a remap in nes store (50% of a plex) Blink i think it would be cool Just put some limit on this maybe? don't know.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2015-02-27 15:20:54 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
An amazing absence of blue posts so I'll just try and force it. Can any CSM/Dev tell us what CCP's stance is on this issue and if it's being discussed internally, regardless of how (in)formal it may be.

This is just an ISD created thread so that they don't have to go through every other day, or multiple times a day and lock redundant threads because people didn't bother to search. I would not expect any kind of blue ribbon on this thread.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#78 - 2015-02-27 15:31:57 UTC
I can already hear the carrier pilots whining about wanting their skillpoints back.

Limited, annual skill point remaps (like I laid out here) would silence that whining right quick. Along with all the whining that comes around any time things get nerfed.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Dirk Morbho
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2015-02-27 15:33:06 UTC
Buy-back of skill points isn't terrible if it's kept in balance. Make it scale with the Rank of the skill so you can't train a 'cheap skill' and refund for an 'expensive skill' in terms of training time. Then on top that scaling, add a penalty (like 20%, or whatever) so that when a skill refund is done, they'll not be taking it lightly.


mah 2 centavos
Big smile
Sony Ichosira
Doomheim
#80 - 2015-02-27 16:14:11 UTC
Dirk Morbho wrote:
Buy-back of skill points isn't terrible if it's kept in balance. Make it scale with the Rank of the skill so you can't train a 'cheap skill' and refund for an 'expensive skill' in terms of training time. Then on top that scaling, add a penalty (like 20%, or whatever) so that when a skill refund is done, they'll not be taking it lightly.


mah 2 centavos
Big smile


Please, don't. Just leave this whole "thing" as it is now. Don't fix something that is not broken, because you can broke it as well...