Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I would like a remap. But i would like it just once. Like CCP allows a remap of 2 mio SP for every 2 years a character plays. Like the Change of the attributes.

ATM your Char reaches 2 Years it allows you to remap 2 mio sp, you do not need to do it.

Not in favor of paying for SP, not in favor of paying for remaps, not in favor of attribute implants, not in favor of remaps, not in favor of attributes at all.

SP should accumulate at the same rate for all subscribers. Eve players should be encouraged to get out in space and interact with each other, with a focus on improving knowledge of game mechanics and player skill vice character skill. Character skill should be a steady and dependable thing, with no advantages to wealthier players (whether in game or out of game).

No to gameplay-related microtransactions. Nuff said.

What's interesting is that at one point both Clone Upgrade costs and the 30-day Skill Queue were both considered sacred, and untouchable. The reality has less to do with pay-to-win and micro transactions and more to do with the fact that established players who have invested years into EVE in training up their characters don't want to give up any advantage. It also competes with the character bazaar, so that's touched on a few nerves as well. Allowing SP for PLEX would probably impact PLEX prices, and this is probably the hidden reason most object: It would simply require more effort to play for free.

This changes destroy basic rule in this game.

NO for PAY to play ( or win )

older chars have more can more do in game or use ships.

after changes everyone with big real wallet get acces to everything.

at now many chars ( not old chars ) are specialized - pvp, pve, production, incursion, exploration, wh life, capital ship use.

CCP want waste and destroy all this what players create from years ?

Ain't we already buying and selling skill points? The character bazaar has all kinds of SP packages for sale, jump freighter alt, flagship alt, industrial alt, wormhole alt, mission alt....etc. Player just have to pay and he will have a character that has skill points that needed months or years to acquire. So don't get nervous about skill points trading.

The bottom line is whether the SP market should be player driven or CCP provides. I want the SP market remains to be player driven. I would like a mechanic that can facilitate verteran players to sell skill points directly rather than selling their alts. Players are provided with tools to extract skill points from their characters and can give these skill points to other characters or put these skill points for sale in player market. Players who buy these skill points can apply them to whatever skills they like on a one time base. That way the number of skill points supplied will be limited by number of players and their time of investment in the game. Therefore the game will not be suddenly flooded with new players with tens of million of skill points, but also facilitates the trading of skill points among players. This skill points market will open door to other options such as ships/modules bundled with skill points for sale.

As regarding the remapping, I would like a one year trained equivalent of skill points remapping is available to all players per year for free. :)

Hey!

I wrote a topic before (referenced in the OP) about newbro skill remaps, and while it may not be the best solution, I do think it's something to consider and carefully look for from a fresh perspective, rather than from the view of an experienced player. I have therefore felt the need to break your comment down a little, and give my vision on it.

Note: This post has been written purely out of the view towards newbro's younger than two months old.



This depends. In my opinion for anyone who is playing for a longer period of time, I feel it is something we need to look into as a potential idea that could lay ground to other idea's. In my eyes, it could be beneficial to couple the rookie chat and status with a single, once-per-account remap that you can do upto a certain amount of time. (So ex: A player has upto 2 months after starting to remap their skills. This does not impact the general gameplay significantly, but gives newbro's a potentional feeling that they aren't thrown into the deep instantly, which in turn may help with user retention.



This part of the game has been discussed by CCP and CSM9 in the Winter Summit:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/csm/Meetings/summit/CSM9-WS-D1.pdf - Page 13.


The above quote directly comes from the meeting minutes. Potentially, the attributes may be removed completely if CCP pushes for it, which makes this argument moot.



If you indeed would implement paid remaps of skillpoints, you are correct. What I am advocating is to give newbro's a slight safety net that in the long run makes barely any impact but for a new player could mean the world. We allow them to learn about EVE instead of getting them stuck right off the bat.

In case of the newbro approach it would not, as it would still be a choice that is permanent in result, and requires planning and forethought. What you do help out with, however, is to help define that core principle of consequence by showing them how permanent it will be after they end their rookie period. Less of a cliff to get started, but still as much consequence for the long run.


It helps new players to actually assess what they want to do, and feel like they can still change it once in order to get used to the game. That makes the idea of goal-setting, progression and achievement for the newbro's a lot better. But yes, do not use this for established characters, as it would be counterintuitive.

This one really touches the core of the game, living with the consequences of one's choices. Granted, when you first start playing you do not really understand the extent of your choices, and new players are fooled by the number of skills and the apparent length of training times of their first skill queues (wait until you want or need jump drive calibration 5). Mitigating the consequences of choices by selling SP in any shape or form for cash is pay-to-win, and not very inventive from a game design perspective.

- Perhaps clearer guidance on training schedules (as we do in many corporations) would help people on their way better. Although the certificate system was reworked a while ago it still holds many irrelevancies, and above all, it is not set up in a way that actually guides newer players. Yes, a "start here" arrow on a flow chart could be a better approach. Not all handholding is bad, especially in a game with more skills than most other games. While I've always appreciated the fact that one gets more out of Eve (or any other serious game) by scanning the web for player written guides, it's not everybody's cup of tea to spend time on this.
- I've never heard of players quitting Eve for having to invest training time in new skills, so player retention is most likely not at stake here. That's why we have the character bazaar.
- Large alliances can (and most likely will) fund the remapping of SP for part of their troops if you allow SP for plex, making the (nullsec) game even more unbalanced than it already is (extra range on jump drives ? boost your blops fleet numbers ? extra supers ? increase capital production ?).
- Getting rid of learning implants ? Why ? These are tools that allow us to give some leverage to the choices we make as pilots. The rock-paper-scissors aspect of pvp is not only reflected in the way we chose and fit ships, but also in the SP we spent in the use of the hull and mods. Makes it more all the more interesting and challenging.
- Getting rid of attributes on skills and mods ? This takes away the freedom the learning implants give us to accomplish training goals faster.
- Getting rid of both attributes and learning implants takes away all leverage at the same time, and indeed starts forcing people into considering spending cash on skill points (I doubt skill ranks would be brought down, it wasn't in the csm minutes) because of - let's be honest - long training times. Great for extra income, terrible for the game. Being "locked into training skills in a non-optimal order for use, in order to train at the optimal speed" is not really a time issue for skills with ranks below say 6. It only becomes an issue when trying to specialize in several directions at the same time.
If I were to change anything, I'd give an extra attribute remap during the first two years of a character, and an extra one every two years afterwards to boost some more diversification. A second change could be to review the skill ranks.

But cash for sp ? Nah. P2W has no place in a subscription based game.

False. Neither change was opposed by the player base at the level that the change contemplated itt is. Actually, many people were in favor of the two changes you cite. Also, it was a 24 hour limit and not a 30-day limit. Obvious misrepresentation and lack of knowledge. Your argument lacks validity.


Wrong once again. Such sp remapping would only benefit veteran players more because they would be able to skill into whatever meta was fotm so much easier, and even for caps, which no new player would ever be able to do.

The character bazaar is not p2w. Someone created that character and had to spend time skilling the character. Someone had to keep the character active through subscription fees or plex. It is not play for free.

Your arguments are so bad you should feel ashamed that you ever posted. But I doubt you will.

Go back to wow, etc.

There is no "right" or "wrong" answer with regards to skillpoints. Merely what you find relevant now and irrelevant later... good for X situation and bad for Y situation.
Either way, the power of the skills you train is always there. You just aren't using ALL of them at any given time (for whatever reason). And that is part of the "process" of this game.


Example: when I was young I trained up MINING skills. I was pretty good at it and had a decent skillplan incorporating mining with PvP skills.
Then one day I realized that I really did not like mining in any serious way and did not want those skills to be on my PvP character. So I abandoned the skillplan and focused purely on PvP.

Fast forward a few years... I have near perfect subcapital PvP skills... but the mining skills remain... a remnant of a different stage in my evolution in EVE.
Then mining barges were changed/buffed. I took a look at them... and I saw the Procurer.
If ever there was a bait ship, that was it. Tanky, could fit full tackle, everyone underestimated it, and it also had the capacity to kill "small threats."
I got 3.
Now I sometimes sit in a low-sec belt... mining... using those same skills that I had abandoned because I hated them and found little use for (at that time).


The point is... you never know when you will eventually find use for the skills that you trained before and find useless today. And since there is no cap on how many skills you can accumulate, sooner or later you may find yourself working on those skills you previously abandoned.
In a larger sense... no time is "wasted" training any particular skill.


Other things to consider:

- It will make newbies think that more SP = more powerful (which is not exactly true as I have pointed out consistently in my usual "Skillpoint Spiel" (see the link in my sig below)).

- Buying skillpoints deprives the newbie of the "process experience" of being new... which is necessary as it teaches newbies how to work with what they have rather than just throw money at a perceived "problem."

- It makes the beginning experiences of newbies MORE painful as they will "throw money" to get more SP and expensive ships... and then wind up losing it due to lack of experience (which is more rage worthy than losing a couple of cheapo frigates and cruisers that one has put only mild investment into).

- Older players (especially rich ones with access to gobs of ISK) will be able to afford more PLEXes (and thus skillpoints) than any newbie will and continue stay ahead in terms of total SP.

- Yes, yes... the Character Bazaar is technically a way to bypass training and get more SP for ISK... but it is more of a grudging necessity than a desired mechanic.
Players will always find ways to sell characters regardless of the legality of such a transaction (look at other games for good examples of this). So the best option for all parties is to "contain" and "regulate" the sales in-house so everyone is protected.
If there was a way to reliably prevent players from selling accounts then I'm sure that would have been the method used by CCP. The reality is that there isn't.

- Players did get concessions from CCP regarding micro-transactions during the Incarna fiasco. One of those concessions what that PLEX/Aurum would not be used in ways that would give a player a clear advantage over others just because they paid more money (see: gameplay advantages).
Granted... creating multiple accounts is also a gameplay advantage... but CCP doesn't see the difference (mechanically speaking) between an alt account and another player playing. In their eyes, it is no different than teaming up with another (actual) player... except a player using two accounts has to split his/her time and attention between both accounts and is thus less effective than two actual players.