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Dev blog: Opportunities Abound - The New Player Experience

First post First post First post
Author
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-02-19 21:28:36 UTC
Ned Thomas wrote:
I like it. I can see a lot of potential with the system and look forward to seeing it in action.

I do think there needs to be some achievements associated with the more nefarious side of Eve. Things like losing a ship to Concord, gaining a suspect timer, gaining a criminal timer, be in a corp that declares a war, bumping the same ship multiple times in a given time frame, successfully suicide ganking someone, etc. Hell, come up with an opportunity for "doubling" someone's isk (I have no idea how that would work). Besides showing people that they can be evil bastards in Eve, it would also serve as a warning to a new player looking through opportunity tree that these things do exist and are considered valid gameplay.

Just my two cents.


Make another player write a griefing ticket about you because of something you did while following the rules :D
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#82 - 2015-02-19 21:33:18 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Everyone wants to have their own minions of death!

Seriously though, it could be that it feels like a 'pet class' from other MMOs, and that strengthens the feeling that you're not alone in this cold harsh world and that at least someone will help you kill those nasty NPC redplusses. Soloing is traditionally easier for pet classes, and until one finds the right corp or social group, soloing is the way forward.


We had a newbie who named all of his drones individually.

He finally stopped after the rat aggro change started killing them too frequently.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Galen Dnari
Dnari Mining and Manufacturing
#83 - 2015-02-19 21:53:47 UTC
To me, the character "creation" process basically simulates growing up. You graduate from "university", and there you are out and about in New Eden. Things have changed over the years, though, so maybe I "remember" some things that are no longer true. Anyway, it seems to me that one of the choices in character creation is, or used to be, what your parents do or did for a living. That might affect starting skills a bit. Which school you choose to attend (military, trade, industrial) should also affect your starting skills. The bottom line though, to me, is this: every new "graduate" should have a skillset that reflects the school he attended and to some small extent, maybe, his parents' professions.

Every new graduate should be able to fly his racial rookie ship with at least level 1 mastery. Every new graduate should have at least level 1 mastery in the social skills. Every new miltary graduate should be able to fly at least one racial combat frigate with at least level 1 mastery. Perhaps he should be able to fly all of them with that mastery. Every new industrial school graduate should be able to fly a venture and his racial industrials with at least level 1 mastery. Every new trade school graduate should be able to fly his racial industrials with at least level 1 mastery, and have trade skills to level 1 mastery. There may be some appropriate tweaks to this: neural skills and thermodynamics come to mind.

Rookie ship and social skills would amount to 29,910 SPs, 1,335,000 ISK worth of skill books, and a bit over half a day's training for 29 skills. Adding all the frigate skills (the Military school path) brings it to 86,564 SPs, 2, 361,000 ISK for skill books, and a bit less than a day and a half training for 48 skills. You can see the skill plans here and here.

I don't know, maybe a new graduate already has most of these. I'm pretty sure he won't have all of them.

http://eveboard.com/ub/1939472205-31.png

Memphis Baas
#84 - 2015-02-19 22:08:26 UTC
This is a bit off-topic (thread is about the Opportunities system), but if you have broad general information that you wish to convey, such as for example that EVE Careers flowchart I saw on the internet, you could have sort of a "graduation" process after, before, or part of the character creator. "What careers are you interested in? Put a checkbox in anything that looks interesting below."

Because the Opportunities system seems very hands-on, "here are some goals, figure it out". It's not easy to convey a general guide about the game through that system. On the other hand, you could do a full screen gorgeous-concept-art-and-text brief interactive tutorial to follow the character creator, to give them a synopsis of the game before they "graduate", get shoved into the pod, and get thrown into the Ibis and left in space to figure things out.
Severyn Talus
Outer Realm Ventures
#85 - 2015-02-19 22:28:49 UTC
I really like the direction this is going, and look forward to trying the Opportunities system when it's released. I recently went through the current NPE with an alt, and having to read one wall-of-text after another wasn't a positive gameplay experience.

Speaking of drones, the Rookie ships do have a small drone bay. How about adding a Civilian Combat Drone alongside the Civilian Mining Drone?

Also, how about adding a small ore hold to the Rookie ships? That way the progression for a mining oriented player could be mine a holds worth of veld, buy two Miner I modules. Mine a few more holds worth of ore, and then have enough capital to invest in a Venture and a mining frigate skillbook.
Erasmus Grant
Order of the Eclipse
Triumvirate.
#86 - 2015-02-19 22:31:17 UTC
Now all you got to do is get your GMs do their jobs compensate you for time lost towards skillpoints lost when you have billing issues.
Circumstantial Evidence
#87 - 2015-02-19 22:38:08 UTC
Fostering player interaction is challenging: you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. The NPE starts players in a system full of other players, and will quickly lead them to a landmark site where they will see other player ships. But the NPE also needs to expose players to basic game mechanics... which can be used for yourself, or with others.

But... Time to mine?!

I think it might be better for this "opportunity," to first describe the *benefit* rather than the *process* - which some players view as incredibly boring.

But then it gets complicated, and so I don't know if what I offer is a better way to organize it, because the benefits of mining depend on player goals: is it manufacturing (which can lead to usage of item, or ISK,) or direct ISK, through resale of minerals or ore?

I imagine CCP office whiteboards (and other surfaces) are covered with stuff that looks something like this:
+ Making ISK
|-Shoot red crosses
|-Mine rocks, sell ore on market
|-Market Trading: buy low, sell high
|-Planetary Industry
|-...etc

+ Making stuff
|-Mine rocks, reprocess to minerals
||-OR Get minerals (by other methods)
|-Get a BPC
|=Use BPC + minerals to build something
||-Use it
||-Sell it

The word "get" implies different ways things can be aquired, some less nice than others.
I don't know how much CCP wants to be seen leading new players towards "less nice" methods.


About new player ship loss / ganks: I don't think its a problem for player retention in the first month, when you don't have much to lose, as it is after the second month.

You liked what you saw in the first month, and are building a character and isk, perhaps moving a bunch of stuff around, other players have been friendly to you. But out of nowhere, your overloaded hauler carrying more than 50% of your net worth, is taken out (in highsec) by "LoL" guy, who thanks you for the loot. That's the decision point, where some will say "screw this game, I'm not paying for another month of (mission/mining) grinding to get that stuff back."
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#88 - 2015-02-19 23:04:28 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
it could be a good replacement for the tutorials but don't think it should go further than that. "Killing a drifter" achievements will open a can of worms i am not sure you want to open. I already can see the "eve play through in 40 days" yt vids.


My instinct is to agree with this – presenting new players with a set of arbitrary goals from above could potentially be very misleading.

On the other hand, difficult goals that a new player can't possibly accomplish by themselves (like killing a Drifter) are something that might get new players actually talking. Maybe they fleet up from their starter corp to find one and get massacred, maybe older players start leading Drifter-killing roams for newbies. It could be a great way to boost engagement.

Be careful though What?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#89 - 2015-02-19 23:24:43 UTC
What about the possibility of introducing daily, weekly, monthly (etc.) 'Opportunities' that scale up and result in more challenges for either sole or group play and reward players with SP bonuses? (not ISK or loot) You'd get more players actively logging in to complete 'Opportunities', and they'd also be undocking and roaming about.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#90 - 2015-02-19 23:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
What about the possibility of introducing daily, weekly, monthly (etc.) 'Opportunities' that scale up and result in more challenges for either sole or group play and reward players with SP bonuses? (not ISK or loot) You'd get more players actively logging in to complete 'Opportunities', and they'd also be undocking and roaming about.

Examples could include:
• Mine xx of Felspar [daily|weekly|monthly]
• Kill xx of NPC [frigates|cruisers|battleships] [daily|weekly|monthly]
• Salvage xx m3 or xx ISK of loot [daily|weekly|monthly]
• Travel to xx unexplored systems or wormholes [daily|weekly|monthly]
• Scan down xx anomalies [daily|weekly|monthly]

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Octoven
Stellar Production
#91 - 2015-02-19 23:52:29 UTC
When I initially created my character the tutorials were a bit crap to be honest. This was when the old character creator was still around that allowed a player to choose their career path when making the character. For example I went industry so I started with...if im not mistaken Industry V. Also some other skills related to the industry path. When I got in game I had to start training learning skills....but I had the industry skill package I started with to help me play the game while those skills were being trained.

The largest problem with this system was the player started with skills they had no idea what they did. So they stripped it and gave newer players a minimal amount of skills and a faster learning period with the accelerator imp. That doesnt really solve that issue though. There are two problems new players face in eve.

1. What can I do in eve?
2. Am I able to do it?

So lets take a simple skill: Warp Drive Navigation. Lets also take a pvp opportunity where in the player moves 12 jumps away to low sec to run with mates. 4 jumps later...."Hold up guys my capacitor has to recharge cuz my skills suck". The same story is heard from various aspects of the game. New players just don't really get enough usability skill wise starting out. So they put skills in and do lvl 1 missions for 1-2 weeks while some usable skills train up.

I think the better solution is a combination of revamping the NPE in addition to bringing back some of the older skill sets. So you introduce the opportunities and give them an overview of most things in eve to do which answers "What can I do in eve?"

Now we need to address, "Am I able to do it?" Again, this isn't a matter of can I go sit in a titan day 1. Give them advanced opportunities to do that more correctly mirror the current career agents. At the completion of these offer them a choice of a level 5 skill for example, Industry, Mining, Gunnery, Missile Operation, CPU Management, PG Management, Astrometrics. When they choose one, you can then outline some support skills they will receive in addition to that level 5 skill. This kind of brings back some of the utility of the old skill packages from the character creator, but places them in game at a later time once the player is familiar with the skills and features of the game, rather then shoving it in their face before they even see space. Of course it more correctly addresses the initial week training period where players do not feel like they can do anything for lack of skills.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#92 - 2015-02-20 00:01:51 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I still think the main thing that keeps pushing new bros away is the fact of the many many levels of griefing that you folks do allow.. but of course you wont nerf that cause that also would hurt someone else's game. perfect thinking here.


We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed. The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish.



Exactly.

As a predator that is often accused of griefing, I do occasionally hit a newbie by mistake. While a veteran that loses a ship to me will be mocked, a rookie will get advice on how to recover from their loss, how to prevent it happening again, and on how they can get involved in the 'dark side' of EVE themselves.

My alliance members generally do the same. Several people have joined us after losing a ship to us and then getting chatting.





Back on topic.

One concern I have is that the opportunities of new players to make enough ISK to recover from a frigate or destroyer loss are limited, especially when most newbies do not realise they can do the career agents missions multiple times by doing them at a different agent.

I can take a HAC or even a Marauder into an engagement with a bit of a #yolo attitude, knowing that if I lose it, the loss will be trivial (for a HAC) or at worst a nuisance (Kronos). New players do not have this ability even with T1 frigates.

If this lowers the rewards a newbie gets in their NPE, this is a problem.



Some other things that should be Opportunities:


- Go suspect
- Go criminal
- Shoot a player ship that shot you first
- Shoot a player ship where you shoot first
- Probe down a signature to 100% with Core Scanner Probes
- Probe down a signature to 100% with Combat Scanner Probes
- Destroy a player-owned deployable (MTU, Mobile Depot or similar)
- Deploy an interdiction bubble


And a few listed as 'advanced opportunities' that are marked with a disclaimer "These are optional, difficult activities that might take you months of play"

- Destroy a POCO
- Destroy a POS
- Kill an opponent in solo PVP (so you are the only person on the killmail)
- Kill two opponents in solo PVP within a minute of each other
- Destroy a sovereignty structure

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#93 - 2015-02-20 00:28:25 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
As a predator that is often accused of griefing, I do occasionally hit a newbie by mistake.

That's probably because you'll shoot anything and everything. Roll

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-02-20 00:46:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
i would very much prefer skillpoints in opportunity-related skills over material things as a reward. scanned down something ? 10.000 SP in astrometrics. salvage site ? another 5.000 in astrometrics and 10.000 in salvaging. wormhole found ? yet another 5.000 in astrometrics and some more in a related skills

no more than maybe 2 or 3 million total, but those should make life for a newbie that much easier

you could also combine this with an incentive to make players subscribe. for example, you could give some SP in cloaking for scanning down a wormhole, but only to subscribed accounts (should be awarded retroactively, of course)
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#95 - 2015-02-20 01:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Good job CCP!

This looks good I likey.


War Kitten wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:


As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!


Everyone wants to have their own minions of death!

Seriously though, it could be that it feels like a 'pet class' from other MMOs, and that strengthens the feeling that you're not alone in this cold harsh world and that at least someone will help you kill those nasty NPC redplusses. Soloing is traditionally easier for pet classes, and until one finds the right corp or social group, soloing is the way forward.

Perhaps the NPE should put more emphasis on drones... and tell players about the wonderfulness of the Ishtar that they should be training for... Lol



I remember people afking whilst their pet killed everything for exp.... Then again it was a specific class that summoned things, and it wasn't really a problem due to level/exp limitations and it would die to anything tough after a while.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2015-02-20 01:49:42 UTC
Great job guys, this system has been long overdue but just by looking at the pictures it seems a lot more inviting than reading swats of text. Should be interesting to see what this system will do in the future!

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#97 - 2015-02-20 01:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: BeanBagKing
Dev Blog wrote:
The final point I want to mention is that, for now at least, we have no rewards associated with completing Opportunities


One reward that I think would be worthwhile is a medal. It's an underused system, and to borrow a quote, "A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.". This would give them something shiny to pin to their character within the first few hours of the game. There's a lot of jokes about "hats" and "monocles", but some people really do care about that, especially when you've only been in space a few minutes.

It would also be something useful to corps that recruit new players. A requirement could be that they have the medal showing they completed the "Opportunities", so you know they have a bare minimum of competence. Or if each has it's own medal, that they have all the ones corresponding to "PvP" and "Ratting", but a particular corp may not care about "Mining", etc.
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2015-02-20 01:52:03 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

- Destroy a POCO
- Destroy a POS
- Kill an opponent in solo PVP (so you are the only person on the killmail)
- Kill two opponents in solo PVP within a minute of each other
- Destroy a sovereignty structure


Those aren't opportunities, those are achievements. And personally I'm not sure if I want to see actual achievements in the game.

My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!

My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#99 - 2015-02-20 02:06:54 UTC
This looks amazing for the NPE, I have a couple of direct questions/comments and a follow on thought.

Firstly, direct questions.
Once this hits TQ, will there be a way to deliberately opt into being in a test group or will it be random.
Also if rewards are not being given, all the items that used to come from the newbie tutorials should be awarded on account creation instead in that case, otherwise rewards need to come alongside the opportunities (in a believable fashion).

Follow on thought, could this develop into a new mission system, where by 'Opportunities' pop up randomly as you travel/with time, and you can chose to follow up those opportunities or not. These could include PvP opportunities if there are Outlaws/Criminals in the vicinity in High/Low and the like also, to make people more aware of targets they can shoot without neg standings.
Nolan Kotulan
Nova Tabula Rasa
#100 - 2015-02-20 02:08:32 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

- Destroy a POCO
- Destroy a POS
- Kill an opponent in solo PVP (so you are the only person on the killmail)
- Kill two opponents in solo PVP within a minute of each other
- Destroy a sovereignty structure


Those aren't opportunities, those are achievements. And personally I'm not sure if I want to see actual achievements in the game.


This. Making such opportunities achievements is just ridiculous and have nothing to do in that game.

Aren't you talking about "New Player Experience"?

Is "Killing a Drifter" or "setting a POS" a NPE, really?

I don't like all this new NPE at all. Tutorials and career agents are just fine and very well done like they are actually.

And I'm fully against these releases of unfinished new features, just like the totally new buggy notification system.

Per aspera ad astra