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Walking in stations

First post
Author
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1121 - 2015-07-31 15:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
... If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously?
Back bone IP addresses are static.

That doesn't break it down. How does CCP keep track of which places it can be switched on for and which it can't?

You can block an IP from an aspect of the game, but how are you going to track which ones?

I keep track of legislative changes (in a completely different subject area, not gambling related) regionally to help keep the relevant countries compliant with treaty obligations. It's a nightmare just on a regional level of 34 countries, let alone Worldwide.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#1122 - 2015-07-31 15:40:08 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS!


Why we mine when we can have minerals from the market?

WIS should bring oportunities to use legs, to bring more content in EVE market also along with quarters to walk in. Else it woud be just another CQ room. That we have already.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1123 - 2015-07-31 15:50:27 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS!


Why we mine when we can have minerals from the market?

WIS should bring oportunities to use legs, to bring more content in EVE market also along with quarters to walk in. Else it woud be just another CQ room. That we have already.


well if nobody mined then there would be none on the market lol

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1124 - 2015-07-31 15:56:09 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Australian Capital Territory and yes I'm understanding the legislation correctly. Whether you want to believe that or not.
I can't find any mention anywhere of gambling for virtual currency being disallowed. The only references I can find are when it constitutes real money gambling, such as second life.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP don't directly offer gambling in the game, nor do they offer it outside the game. 3rd parties do. So the risk isn't with CCP unless they directly offer it as mentioned as a possibility for WiS by Jenshae above. But the moment CCP decide to develop gambling options as features of Eve, then they would be accepting the responsibility to comply.
It's irrelevant how it's offered up, they actively allow it. They've even partnered with some of the 3rd party gambling corps for official events.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
While we can both see that it is all in game currency, so might seem just the same as any other free online games and apps, the law isn't always so straight forward. The ability to purchase PLEX for cash, sell that for ISK and then gamble exposes problem gamblers to the potential of substantial real cash loss in game. Problem gambling has had a significant focus from the community in Australia over the last few years and being the nanny State we are, legislation to protect people from themselves has been implemented in recent years.
They already are at risk. They could buy 1000 plex, convert it all to isk and throw it all into iwantisk. There's no reason that wouldn't cause as much grief for CCP as a system the built themselves. In fact a system they built themselves would more easily be able to handle limits on the amount you can put in.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1125 - 2015-07-31 16:06:13 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
It works in real life too, instead of driving my car for 10 minutes to go the 8 miles to work, I immerse myself by getting out the old horse and buggy and taking 14 days to make the same trip lol. Can't wait till CCP gives us real WiS so I can watch people walk to talk to their agent while I click a single button to accomplish the same goal and make more isk per hour Twisted
Instead of going to the shop and just buying some fish to take home and eat tomorrow, I'm going to go to the shop, buy some fish and worms, go to a pier, spend 8 hours fishing and catch some fish to take home and eat. Sometimes it can be fun to take your time.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#1126 - 2015-07-31 16:08:53 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
... If it's so easy, how do you achieve Worldwide compliance continuously?
Back bone IP addresses are static.
You can block an IP from an aspect of the game, but how are you going to track which ones?
I thought you would be able to see it easily enough but I will give a basic run down (there are work arounds for this basic one, however, it would probably be sufficient measures for rating purposes)
- Table of states / countries that have a problem with gambling.
- Backbone IP address list for those places.
- Tracert.
- Compare results.
- If they are using a problem IP for routing then turn off the gambling games.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1127 - 2015-07-31 16:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Lucas Kell wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Australian Capital Territory and yes I'm understanding the legislation correctly. Whether you want to believe that or not.
I can't find any mention anywhere of gambling for virtual currency being disallowed. The only references I can find are when it constitutes real money gambling, such as second life.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
CCP don't directly offer gambling in the game, nor do they offer it outside the game. 3rd parties do. So the risk isn't with CCP unless they directly offer it as mentioned as a possibility for WiS by Jenshae above. But the moment CCP decide to develop gambling options as features of Eve, then they would be accepting the responsibility to comply.
It's irrelevant how it's offered up, they actively allow it. They've even partnered with some of the 3rd party gambling corps for official events.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
While we can both see that it is all in game currency, so might seem just the same as any other free online games and apps, the law isn't always so straight forward. The ability to purchase PLEX for cash, sell that for ISK and then gamble exposes problem gamblers to the potential of substantial real cash loss in game. Problem gambling has had a significant focus from the community in Australia over the last few years and being the nanny State we are, legislation to protect people from themselves has been implemented in recent years.
They already are at risk. They could buy 1000 plex, convert it all to isk and throw it all into iwantisk. There's no reason that wouldn't cause as much grief for CCP as a system the built themselves. In fact a system they built themselves would more easily be able to handle limits on the amount you can put in.

That you can't find the relevant legislation is exactly the sort of problem that CCP would face.

You can argue all you want that it's all the same. We are both space lawyering here and not from any solid foundation to do so. What both of us are talking about are based on our layman views. Trying to suggest anything more is stupid.

I know the things I am aware of in relation to my country, but I'm not a lawyer and I certainly don't know the finer details of how responsibility for different aspects falls under the law. Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion.

So arguing this is just stupid. It's not as simple as CCP could replace all 3rd party gambling by including it in WiS. it's more complex then that. How much more complex. **** knows but I certainly don't take confidence just because you say so. That would be the last thing I would ever do, since most discussions with you are just circular arguments that go nowhere.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1128 - 2015-07-31 16:16:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Scipio Artelius wrote:
... Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion. ...
Look up the specific cases and legislation. There are already games with gambling in them.
Who ever put pressure on Second Life (servers in California) ruled that all gambling must be "skill" based (like poker and they have slot machines that have little tile puzzles on them) as their currency directly translates into real money.
There are many gambling web sites that would have had similar problems regarding ratings.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#1129 - 2015-07-31 16:19:08 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

well if nobody mined then there would be none on the market lol


So true. Now leave and close the door using only spaceship with warp drive. Not even with legs.
Hands. We have hands. Dont use them. You could make something useful.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#1130 - 2015-07-31 16:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
... Until something is actually tested in a court then any position is just opinion. ...
Look up the specific cases and legislation. There are already games with gambling in them.
Who ever put pressure on Second Life (servers in California) ruled that all gambling must be "skill" based (like poker and they have slot machines that have little tile puzzles on them) as their currency directly translates into real money.
There are many gambling web sites that would have had similar problems regarding ratings.

We're just going off topic here and for that I apologise.

I've said my piece and don't want to take the thread further off topic by discussing where rulings of any court apply or whether it is simple for CCP to replace 3rd party gambling in game with their own gambling based WiS features.

So I'll just leave it there as there isn't any chance of a consensus on this any time soon.

Back to WiS and my apologies to all.
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1131 - 2015-07-31 16:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aralyn Cormallen
Its also worth noting the fuss over corporate logos. It's not sufficient to say a given law does or doesn't effect a given situation - what matters is whether CCP's lawyers (the people paid to ensure they comply with all relevant laws) is satisfied that everything has been complied with. Like the corp-logo internet lawyers, you can provide whatever evidence you like to claim whatever you like til your blue in the face, but if CCP's lawyers aren't 100%, its just noise, and CCP wont risk massive law-suits on say so from laymen (or even the say-so of fully qualified experts in the field - if you are not their paid fully-qualified experts in the field your word means less than nothing on the subject).
Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1132 - 2015-07-31 17:00:14 UTC
Doublepost
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1133 - 2015-07-31 17:00:15 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
So arguing this is just stupid. It's not as simple as CCP could replace all 3rd party gambling by including it in WiS. it's more complex then that. How much more complex. **** knows but I certainly don't take confidence just because you say so. That would be the last thing I would ever do, since most discussions with you are just circular arguments that go nowhere.
It is that simple. CCP already have gambling in their game. It's already possible to do and even supported by them at official events. But like how games like clicker heroes allows you to buy in game tokens then gamble them for in game items, paying for a game service then playing that game is in itself not gambling. Consider how many games you play that allow you to buy in-game currency or items then use that in games of chances within that game. Are they all 18+ with gambling licenses? Doubt it. If them adding it as part of WiS were somehow limited by legislation that nobody seems to have documented, then it would already be limited by that legislation in it's current form.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1134 - 2015-07-31 17:19:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
thing that bother me is everyone wants something which is already available but they seem to want it to a slow and more inconvenient way Ugh


But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS!

It works in real life too, instead of driving my car for 10 minutes to go the 8 miles to work, I immerse myself by getting out the old horse and buggy and taking 14 days to make the same trip lol. Can't wait till CCP gives us real WiS so I can watch people walk to talk to their agent while I click a single button to accomplish the same goal and make more isk per hour Twisted

Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#1135 - 2015-07-31 21:46:37 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
thing that bother me is everyone wants something which is already available but they seem to want it to a slow and more inconvenient way Ugh


But but but,....."Immersion"! Who needs a spaceship with a warp drive when you can use LEGS!

It works in real life too, instead of driving my car for 10 minutes to go the 8 miles to work, I immerse myself by getting out the old horse and buggy and taking 14 days to make the same trip lol. Can't wait till CCP gives us real WiS so I can watch people walk to talk to their agent while I click a single button to accomplish the same goal and make more isk per hour Twisted

Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right?



LOL. Because, context in situations.

You really need to get some perspective.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1136 - 2015-07-31 22:06:41 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them.


And now he's a photographer too. Roll

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1137 - 2015-07-31 22:25:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them.


And now he's a photographer too. Roll


Now, now he never said that, he just said he takes photos.

Not very good ones though as one normally dedicates more than "less than a second" to composition, light metering and exposure selection.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1138 - 2015-07-31 22:29:04 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them.


And now he's a photographer too. Roll


Now, now he never said that, he just said he takes photos.

Not very good ones though as one normally dedicates more than "less than a second" to composition, light metering and exposure selection.


I once had the very great pleasure of seeing the entire works of Ansel Adams on display. Purportedly, he would stand in the same place sometimes for days at a time just to get a good shot.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#1139 - 2015-08-01 01:58:44 UTC
Freya Sertan wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
.... Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right?
LOL. Because, context in situations.
You really need to get some perspective.
Quote:
analogy
əˈnalədʒi/
noun
noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
You are welcome. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1140 - 2015-08-01 02:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cancel Align NOW
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
.... Some people paint landscapes while I take photographs of them. They take hours to days while mine take less than a second. My way is obviously better right?
LOL. Because, context in situations.
You really need to get some perspective.
Quote:
analogy
əˈnalədʒi/
noun
noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies
a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
You are welcome. Blink



Think that was understood. Blink His point was the particular analogy chosen was so far removed it did nothing to clarify or explain.