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Walking in stations

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Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1061 - 2015-07-30 21:16:41 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Misconceptions here:

1 that CCP allocated resources from EvE to WIS depriving EvE of resources.

2 that a poor implementation on an idea means the idea was bad.

3 that the "majority of players didn't want WIS"


While you may be right on items 2 and 3, item 1 is not a misconception, CCP blew at least 18 months of development time on WIS which would have been far better spent to fix what was broken in the base game of FIS.

People wanted the WIS they had been promised, not what was delivered.

Perhaps however that's dependent on 1 whether CCP allocated additional resources 2 whether those resources would hav been diverted to dust instead of WIS

My experience with project management would suggest it's likely additional resources were acquired to work on WIS and had WIS not been on the agenda those resources likely would not have been obtained in the first place. CCP might operate differently so I might be wrong.


You do not remember the 18 months thread naught? Soon tm.
Avvy
Doomheim
#1062 - 2015-07-30 21:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Lucas Kell wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
To believe as they do, you have to ignore history.
And to believe as you do you have to ignore the fact that CCP have changed their entire approach. With the new development processes there's no reason to assume that working towards WiS wouldn't be achievable, especially when you consider the only reason it didn't get off the ground last time was angry screaming overly entitled children.

I get it though. Other viewpoints aren't valid and what CCP should do is cater to just people like you, which they have done for years while their sub numbers continue to drop.



There seems to be a lot of work still needed to be done to it. Even the character movement didn't seem that great to me.

Real question is, is it really worth the effort.


Edit:

Assuming each station has its own environment.

More than a 1000 in Jita, probably more than half never ever leave the ship or cabin except to look around once.

There would be other stations empty, some with 1 or 2 people in them others with 10 or 12 other with maybe 25 -30.

Each different station would require a different internal structure.

There really would be a lot of work involved to do it properly, of course this will depend upon how much they've already done if any.

I just find it hard to see that they can justify the cost of completing it, without drastically cutting corners. By doing so end up with a substandard addition to the game.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1063 - 2015-07-30 22:00:30 UTC
I imagine there would be one for each station type, of which there aren't too many. With CCPs development cycle I imagine they would make one of each race for all stations of that race, iterate upon those until they are working well, then over time create different versions for different type and owners of station (with NPC corp ownership colours and logos applied dynamically much like skins).

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Avvy
Doomheim
#1064 - 2015-07-30 22:19:51 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I imagine there would be one for each station type, of which there aren't too many. With CCPs development cycle I imagine they would make one of each race for all stations of that race, iterate upon those until they are working well, then over time create different versions for different type and owners of station (with NPC corp ownership colours and logos applied dynamically much like skins).



Ok, so likely to do it in phases. Which is possible spread the cost as long as people don't get too critical of it as it would be a work in progress.


What would the stations be used for, meeting place for clones, gambling maybe, maybe a bar as well.


How many would use the stations other than sitting in ships or the captains cabin?

I think the main point is, if they put all the effort into creating the station environments would enough people actually use them. Or is it a case of, seems like a good idea but might not actually be in practice.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#1065 - 2015-07-30 22:22:00 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
No need to be melodramatic.
CCP just needs some devs that are good at making interiors to work on the station. It doesn't have to be announced, there can be all the usual song and dance about the usual developments until one day, "Surprise! We made stuff!"


I bet they know where they can find some, even with Carbon expertise...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1066 - 2015-07-30 23:02:53 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:

You do not remember the 18 months thread naught? Soon tm.


Of course he doesn't remember it. He might claim to be a launch player, but he's actually an illegal character sale from a little while ago. When he first popped up, he was such a noob that he was flying shield tanked Proteus ships so he could fit more mag stabs. I am not even kidding.

He doesn't remember it because he was never there.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1067 - 2015-07-30 23:06:58 UTC
Avvy wrote:
... What would the stations be used for, ...?
As I said a long way back in this thread, a relatively simple addition would be inviting people into your Captain's Quarters. Sure, you won't do much but at least you can "see" each other while talking. Some visual stimulus while you wait for someone to think, speak and or type.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Avvy
Doomheim
#1068 - 2015-07-30 23:16:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Avvy wrote:
... What would the stations be used for, ...?
As I said a long way back in this thread, a relatively simple addition would be inviting people into your Captain's Quarters. Sure, you won't do much but at least you can "see" each other while talking. Some visual stimulus while you wait for someone to think, speak and or type.


Now at least that is something worth considering, certainly before the rest of it.


Edit:


I wonder if it would be better to just forget walking in stations. Then redesign the captains cabin making it bigger and allowing people to invite people into their cabin.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1069 - 2015-07-31 05:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Cancel Align NOW
Quote:
As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive.


That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1070 - 2015-07-31 05:35:18 UTC
The massive feature Zulu is talking up, got downplayed just prior to incarna's release. Like many things involving CCP it became phase one. Like many others when my graphics card running temperature climbed dramatically in that little room with a locked door to nowhere, I was bitterly disappointed with work that nine teams had done over a period of 18 months.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1071 - 2015-07-31 05:41:39 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Quote:
As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive.


That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog

WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list

incarna patch notes

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1072 - 2015-07-31 05:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Cancel Align NOW
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Quote:
As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive.


That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog

WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list

incarna patch notes


1. Surely you are trolling. The walking in stations expansion for Eve Online was named Incarna.

Quote:
Captain's Quarters

A new 3D user interface has been built to support interaction with Captain's Quarters features.
The station hangar has been replaced with Captain's Quarters. Capsuleers can now, for the first time, step out of their pod and stretch their legs in their personal quarters. Please check out this dev blog by CCP Zulu for more information.
Captain's Quarters include the hangar balcony, where one can enjoy a gorgeous view of one's active ship in the hangar.
The main screen provides information about things happening in the EVE universe, including sovereignty changes, the Interstellar Correspondents News Feed, incursions and more - stay tuned.
The Captain's Quarters have tools that will make life for the capsuleer much easier, including the agent finder, corporation recruitment, planetary interaction, character re-customization and ship fitting.
A new camera system was built from the ground up to support avatar movement and various state transitions.
An extensive avatar movement scheme using Natural Motion's Morpheme has been developed to control your character. This includes an eight directional movement scheme accessible via keyboard controls, click-to-move and mouse movement.
Separate keyboard shortcuts for Captain's Quarters and flying-in–space, as well as a number of options for customizing the walking-in-station camera, have been added to the ESC menu.


2. How did you miss that?

3. I don't like being trolled locator agents activated.
Raven Pirkibo
Jameco Industries
#1073 - 2015-07-31 05:51:34 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
We're getting WiS and it's called Legion. It's been sneaked under everyone's noses. Huzzah


To be honest Project Legion is going to have a hell of a lot more than just walking in stations for Eve players, it will be a full FPS game in it's own right that will be the successor to Dust and part of the greater Eve universe.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1074 - 2015-07-31 06:01:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Quote:
As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive.


That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog

WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list

incarna patch notes


1. Surely you are trolling. The walking in stations expansion for Eve Online was named Incarna.

Quote:
Captain's Quarters

A new 3D user interface has been built to support interaction with Captain's Quarters features.
The station hangar has been replaced with Captain's Quarters. Capsuleers can now, for the first time, step out of their pod and stretch their legs in their personal quarters. Please check out this dev blog by CCP Zulu for more information.
Captain's Quarters include the hangar balcony, where one can enjoy a gorgeous view of one's active ship in the hangar.
The main screen provides information about things happening in the EVE universe, including sovereignty changes, the Interstellar Correspondents News Feed, incursions and more - stay tuned.
The Captain's Quarters have tools that will make life for the capsuleer much easier, including the agent finder, corporation recruitment, planetary interaction, character re-customization and ship fitting.
A new camera system was built from the ground up to support avatar movement and various state transitions.
An extensive avatar movement scheme using Natural Motion's Morpheme has been developed to control your character. This includes an eight directional movement scheme accessible via keyboard controls, click-to-move and mouse movement.
Separate keyboard shortcuts for Captain's Quarters and flying-in–space, as well as a number of options for customizing the walking-in-station camera, have been added to the ESC menu.


2. How did you miss that?

3. I don't like being trolled locator agents activated.

Read the patch notes for Incarna. WIS was a major component however there was a crapload of EvE related stuff too. Which might explain the 3 teams of EvE dev being outnumbered by loaned teams from other projects

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1075 - 2015-07-31 06:13:00 UTC
I have read those notes numerous times. There was hardly anything FIS related stuff in there.

As you are a 2013 player who is used to the 6 week development and does not have experience with the winter/summer cycles. I can see how you think there was a "crapload of EvE related stuff. You should read the patch notes for Dominion, Apocraphya etc.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#1076 - 2015-07-31 06:59:55 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Quote:
As of August 17th, there will be about nine teams working on Incarna. Of those, seven are on loan from other projects - to which they will return once Incarna is launched - and the remainder are EVE development teams. The EVE teams can work on both Incarna and in-space features, but they are assigned to Incarna for now. Actually one of the teams is spending one and a half releases on Incarna, the other about three releases. So the resource cost from EVE is very contained while the size and impact of the feature will be massive.


That quote is CCP Zulu from this blog

WIS not Incarna. Aside from WIS Incarna included updates to graphics, ships, modules, UI, drones, missions.... it's a very long list

incarna patch notes
1. Surely you are trolling. The walking in stations expansion for Eve Online was named Incarna.
His point is that's not all Incarna was. You guys hear Incarna and think CQ. I hear it and think No more multi JBs! Travel is ruined! Somebody working on "Incarna" was doing things that didn't involve the CQ.

Unezka Turigahl wrote:
They did both. I believe it was Zulu who was in charge at the time and gave the figure of 18 months of very sparse development of FiS in favor of WiS. Obviously this means they had most of the company working on WiS.

They also hired on new employees specifically for WiS. They also pulled developers in Atlanta off of WoD to help work on WiS. Also, I believe the underlying tech for WiS was the same as for WoD and was developed by the Atlanta team.

What exactly the rest of the Icelandic team was contributing to WiS then, I have no idea... since the engine was developed by Atlanta and 3 of the 4 CQs were said to have been completed by Atlanta... but apparently the rest of the Iceland team was too busy working on it to get around to FiS issues. A couple ships were rebalanced I think, and some other smaller things were done, but other than that, :18 months:
Actually, if you read the quote that Cancel Align NOW put above, the vast majority of the teams working on the CQ were from "other projects" which I'd assume to be things like WoD with only 2 of the EVE teams on it. So no, not "most of the company" at all.

Apparently you didn't notice all of the changes going in over that 18 month period, like the Tyrannis and Incursion expansions. It's like 20 patches and 2 expansions within that timeframe, yet you people seem to think that the only thing that happened was WiS.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#1077 - 2015-07-31 07:15:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lots of stuff, but no code

Still waiting for the prototype. It is easy after all. At least show us your alpha prototype.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#1078 - 2015-07-31 07:32:36 UTC
Sorry if this was posted already, but I figured I'd link it here as it humors me for a number of reasons. Also, because I like seeing Soraya get burned.


https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=209985&find=unread
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1079 - 2015-07-31 07:39:27 UTC
I like the part where he was directly contradicted by a CCP quote from Incarna, that apparently everyone already knew about but him. They outright say that the colossal failure of Incarna had resources directly drawn from the rest of the game, which 100% contradicts his statements.

And still he doubles down and claims he was right all along. The perils of intellectual dishonesty, ladies and gentlemen.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1080 - 2015-07-31 07:45:12 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
His point is that's not all Incarna was. You guys hear Incarna and think CQ. I hear it and think No more multi JBs! Travel is ruined! Somebody working on "Incarna" was doing things that didn't involve the CQ.

Apparently you didn't notice all of the changes going in over that 18 month period, like the Tyrannis and Incursion expansions. It's like 20 patches and 2 expansions within that timeframe, yet you people seem to think that the only thing that happened was WiS.


Compared to Revelations, Trinity, Empyrean Age, Apocraphya and Dominion, Tyrannis and Incarna offered very little in the way of spaceship flight. CCP warned us that that would be the case, and promised that Incarna would be fantastic. They delivered on little for FIS pilots and failed to deliver the games, meeting rooms and chance for character conflict they talked up for WIS.

You can keep talking up Tyrannis and the other "20 patches", personally I was not very impressed with Eve Gate, these forums, ingame calendar or the charcater creater (which was prep work for Incarna) etc.