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Latest CSM notes : Rumours of attribute points/implants being removed.

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Talonikus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2015-01-26 02:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Talonikus
The attributes themselves are useless. Implants have purpose and I think people like them.

Maybe they can also consolidate the types of ammo for some of the turrets by at least half. 8 is daunting for a new player.
The Connoisseur
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2015-01-26 02:21:05 UTC  |  Edited by: The Connoisseur
I don't see this as a bad thing at all. As it stands the quickest way to skill up efficiently is to not play the game and sit in a station with +4's/+5's to try to catchup in the sp rat race that so many new players see separating them from veterans. The game heavily rewards you for efficiency when it comes to your sp allocation. Attributes along with learning implants create a gameplay adversion, not a risk adversion. It is a system where the rich who do nothing win. EVE should be about fun risk, not a game of defend your mandatory learning implants so you can skill up fast enough to catch up and do what you want to do. I for one would love to not continue wasting jc timers and living by said timers in order to skill up at a decent rate.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2015-01-26 02:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
I say More Killing and Less Skilling.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#104 - 2015-01-26 02:45:16 UTC
You are reacting to outputs. If they decide to remove implants then they are reacting to inputs. Maybe people should ask the question, "What information does CCP and the CSM have that would make them consider this?"

Think about it, the proposal would eliminate a consumable that burns isk. I am sure they would not consider this lightly.
Solops Crendraven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2015-01-26 02:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Solops Crendraven
Nexus Day wrote:
You are reacting to outputs. If they decide to remove implants then they are reacting to inputs. Maybe people should ask the question, "What information does CCP and the CSM have that would make them consider this?"

Think about it, the proposal would eliminate a consumable that burns isk. I am sure they would not consider this lightly.
Of course they wouldnt take this Lightly.They would do this as last resort . I wouldnt expect Them to shoot themselves in the Foot.

Moving To Las Vegas Watch Me Play Poker! enter link description here
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#106 - 2015-01-26 05:14:11 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
You are reacting to outputs. If they decide to remove implants then they are reacting to inputs. Maybe people should ask the question, "What information does CCP and the CSM have that would make them consider this?"

Think about it, the proposal would eliminate a consumable that burns isk. I am sure they would not consider this lightly.


The effect on lp and isk can be solved. CCP deals with isk inflation and deflation all the time. It shouldn't prevent the removal of attribute implants.
Trey Kutoi
SergalJerk
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#107 - 2015-01-26 06:06:05 UTC
I screw around with +3s and hardwirings in lowsec because it doesn't really matter.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#108 - 2015-01-26 07:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The argument of "risk/reward" is different when it comes to skill implants. Rewards as it applies to ships, modules and non-learning implants is of a temporary nature. If a player does not risk the more expensive ship, module or non-learning implant they are not affected at a later date. If a player does not risk the more expensive learning implant though - or chooses to use something like Slaves - they receive permanent repercussions for that decision.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2015-01-26 07:52:56 UTC
I like the current implant system and remapping.

If you want to get people to PvP with more clones, you could just remove the fact that you lose implants when you are podded. So your new clone wakes up with all it's implants.

This would still kill the implant economy, so I am not sure I am exactly for it. But it is an example of how the 'problem' of learning implants (discouraging PvP) could be circumvented without dumbing down the game.

I like attributes, remaps, implants - to include learning implants.

I do PvP. I do hate getting podded in an expensive clone. I still don't want learning implants to be removed.

I will not rage quit if they are removed. It's a tertiary issue overall. I don't think removing them will all the sudden make Eve players start PvPing. I also don't think removing them will ruin the game. It's really much ado about nothing. But just to put my two cents in, removing attributes, remapping, and learning implants will cost Eve some flavor. If it's problematic, replace it with something equally flavorful and not problematic. Don't just get rid of them.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#110 - 2015-01-26 07:59:24 UTC
If they remove learning implants now, what will happen to hardwire ones after?
The arguments: "they are too expensive, new players can't afford them, we won't pvp when having them" are wrong from the begining.
+5 implants (without attribute changing) add few days to the longest skills training, they have no impact on lowest level skill, which is most desire for new players. If players don't want to pvp in expensive learning implants they won't do it with hardwire ones. The problem is not the implants, it's the price of them. Also let's not forget we have more than one clone.
Most of all CCP need to take a look at training mechanism, number of neural remaps etc.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#111 - 2015-01-26 08:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
The Connoisseur wrote:
I don't see this as a bad thing at all. As it stands the quickest way to skill up efficiently is to not play the game and sit in a station with +4's/+5's to try to catchup in the sp rat race that so many new players see separating them from veterans. The game heavily rewards you for efficiency when it comes to your sp allocation. Attributes along with learning implants create a gameplay adversion, not a risk adversion. It is a system where the rich who do nothing win. EVE should be about fun risk, not a game of defend your mandatory learning implants so you can skill up fast enough to catch up and do what you want to do. I for one would love to not continue wasting jc timers and living by said timers in order to skill up at a decent rate.


There is no SP rat race, it's only an SP rat race if you want it to be or perceive it that way. What you're saying is nothing other than "we should all start at lvl 90, the levelling system is a rat race and frankly it's not important. The only important thing is the end game because I'm one of those people who want to min-max, but without the min and I just don't understand how one could do well without being maxed out".
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#112 - 2015-01-26 08:19:11 UTC
Celgar Thurn wrote:
Apparently CCP/ the CSM are debating removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. I would like to raise the following issues with this possible action:
.



My thoughts on this.


No.


My in depth explanation - OH HELL NO. Attributes are there for a reason. Variety. Each attribute has a reason. Charimsa social/fleet. Intelligence - operations, and perception how to use the bloody thing. Implants are there to make up for our short comings when we want to focus on something but realize oh wait i need to hurry and do this.


So yeah, my thoughts leave them in.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
LordZer00
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#113 - 2015-01-26 09:02:20 UTC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

The argument presented is a logical fallacy
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#114 - 2015-01-26 09:09:24 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
Celgar Thurn wrote:
Apparently CCP/ the CSM are debating removing attribute points and the learning implants from the game. I would like to raise the following issues with this possible action:

1) This idea seems to remove an additional element of risk to undocking in New Eden. I along with probably a lot of capsuleers do not like it when they are podded and have to replace implants & hardwiring but it is a part of the game. This idea follows the recent removal of medical clones which arguably was a good idea but I don't think we needed to go further than that change.

2) This change would be another kick in the pants to the missions system, mission/LP revenue and various career sub-options such as selling ore for storyline missions etc. I would argue that too many revenue ideas have been removed or made uneconomic already.

3) I feel this is another case of dumbing down of the game. Are we eventually going to get to a point where EVE Online is like many other MMOs where items are just collected within the game and nothing gets destroyed ?

I invite comments and ask whether people feel the attribute point & implants are a nice complication within the game or whether we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.


The problem with attribute implants is they punish you for living in null sec(or low sec to a lesser extent) but it's a trivial cost for a high sec mission runner.

I would prefer a monthly fee for the bonus.



Well plus 5´s can be stored in a trainingsclone and if you can´t afford to lose +4´s well, use +3´s the difference isn´t that crazy.
I burned through 3billions in implants since I went to nullsec. Avoiding being stupid (my case) and your implants will be relatively safe. Last but not least you should be wealthy in null-sec. So if you don´t be a - excuse me - killboard whore it doesn´t matter to use and once in a while lose +3´s or +4´s.
To finish this, I don´t think +5´s are worth it except you are planning something like training into capitals/super caps.
Fu Qjoo
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#115 - 2015-01-26 09:19:45 UTC
Can't wait to see this implant/skill/attribute crap go away. I will still be not smart enough to understand this game but every little thing helps. And please give autopvp/automine/autorat/autoincursion option. And autouse best blueprint please. One day the game will be dumbed down enough so I might even undock my ship (please make undock button bigger). Anyone knows how I can board my ship btw?
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#116 - 2015-01-26 09:32:37 UTC
Fu Qjoo wrote:
Can't wait to see this implant/skill/attribute crap go away. I will still be not smart enough to understand this game but every little thing helps. And please give autopvp/automine/autorat/autoincursion option. And autouse best blueprint please. One day the game will be dumbed down enough so I might even undock my ship (please make undock button bigger). Anyone knows how I can board my ship btw?


Start a thread on how we all really should start in titans, fitted and ready, without even having to board them. Sure, they'll have to adapt the career tutorial to "blap these NPC dreads" but it'll be worth it.
Leannor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#117 - 2015-01-26 09:33:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Leannor
Memphis Baas wrote:
My opinion is: of all the things that they can do to get people to PVP more even if they don't want to, it's not one of the worst.

I would undock more if there were no attribute implants to worry about. I would also train differently if all the skills trained at whatever max rate we have when properly remapped. And I'm a carebear, so the PVP'ers would have an increasingly target-rich environment.

Yes, the game is changing, and it remains to be seen whether it's ultimately for the good or the bad. CCP does go ahead and do whatever they want, so basically we can complain about changes but ultimately we can't really prevent them.

Oh, it has a ways to go yet, considering that you don't lose your armor when you die in most current MMO's.


don't have implants then ... or have a local clone without them ...

for those that have spent billions on implants, I hope they will be getting recompensed!

"Lykouleon wrote:

STOP TOUCHING ICONIC SHIP PARTS"
Chal0ner
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#118 - 2015-01-26 10:21:52 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
I would undock more if there were no attribute implants to worry about.

Memphis Baas wrote:
and we lose the boredom of sitting in station and can do whatever we want.


Yes, I absolutely see how this is CCPs fault.
(I was being ironic)

As someone said, your boredom has nothing to do with EVE, CCP or game mechanics.
Chal0ner
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#119 - 2015-01-26 10:27:43 UTC
Nalia White wrote:
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Yes, remove attributes and attribute implants.

Also remove all other implants.
Also remove boosts.

Then engaging a ship comes down to the ships, their fittings, and the players' skills, none of this additional garbage.


that's the right mindset for playing eve right there folks!

we should even remove all the graphics and stuff. who needs more than a dot and two lines on each side to play video games?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNAdtkSjSps
Louise Beethoven
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2015-01-26 10:41:35 UTC
Do it CCP, remove attribute points. However everyone should get 2,700sp/h training across the board, it's the only fair way to do it.