Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Nikk, you have poorly understood my post. Never have I implied that PVE players are meaningless or of less value. Not honestly sure how you come to this conclusion. Nothing about my statements say this.

I have no strayed from the topic. As you stated "Regardless of this distinction, cloaked play over extended periods of time is frequently described as AFK, based on the perception of the opposing players". My point was covering this plus more. Even if a player is active. While cloaked, they are invulnerable. They could be sleeping, eating, market trading, or watching the undock. One does not know. That in itself is fine, however there is zero counter to it.

I would think that most players would like to have a chance to do something about this, however if you are the person being camped, all you can do is sit on your hands. Again I state this is not balance.

It almost seems like you are attempting to be combative in your statements in an attempt to twist what I am saying, just to invalidate it. For example your #4 statement. We both agree on it, you have upvoted my post on the exact same thing just 2 pages ago. So I dont understand the need for even rehashing it.

No. I believe that there is a flaw in cloak cause it allows for situations that a player can become completely invulnerable. The only other comparision is hidding in a station in high sec. Null sec stations and towers can be destroyed. This invulverablity is an unfair advantage to the cloaker.

The number one issue I have with local is the volume of free intel people can get if they know how. Its not actually that hard of a concept though. When someone you don't know appears in local, search them on Killboards. This gives you a history of what they fly, who they fly with, if they do drops, or blops, are they a more so a PVP pilot or a PVE pilot. You basically get anyones EVE history handed to you, without any real effort on your own part. Which is pretty ridiculous imho.

Id rather see CCP split local chat number log into 2 listing.
A) Number of Blue pilots
- would show a blue pod with the number of blue pilots
B) Number of potentially hostile pilots
- would show a red pod with the number of potentially hostile targets.

EX. 100 people in a system. 20 of which are blue to you.
you would see
Blue Pod: 20
Red Pod: 80

And that would be all the intel you get. You know there are 80 potentially hostile people in local, but you do not know their names, their corps, their alliances.

Until you see them in space.
OR
They talk in local chat.

You could even take this a step further and have this only apply in territory you control (be it Sov Space, or your Faction in FW)
Meaning if I were in NC. and took a trip up to VFK, I would see no local information, but the GSF guys in VFK would see all their Blue Pods, and me as a Red Pod.

Taking this even further you could also have this function in NPC Nullsec where your standings dictate whether or not Guristas (for example) are willing to broadcast local information with you. Lets say I am in BL. and me and the Guristas are tight bros because i dump all my LP and Isk back into their store for those dank crystal sets they sling my way. Guristas love me so much they will tell me how many of my friends are in system with me, and how many enemies are in system too.

I would leave NonFW LS space, and HS space absent from this however, and keep Local Chat available to everyone, still within the same scope though, where peoples names and information do not show up.

Free intel is the worst kind of intel.

And since this works both ways for both potential targets and cloakers, this would make it significantly harder for Cloaking ships to make use of local to identify weak or easy pickings for blops or drops, they would be forced to scan down the ships in system to get a rough idea of potential numbers of hostiles. While the potential target (if in an owned system) would see there is a hostile, and how many friends are in system, but have no other information than that. If they are uncomfortable because they are alone in system, they can leave to a more populated area if that makes them feel secure, and the cloaker, AFK or not would never know (unless watching the people leave through a gate) because they don't get any information from local at all.

Boom, you just made cloaky camping much more difficult in processing of information, because they would have to constantly be active in acquiring information, without having the knowledge of people coming or going from that system. (assuming hostile space, or NPC sov without sufficient standings).

There are a lot of things you can do to make local, less useful and more useful at the same time. While both stunting cloaking, and expanding the reconiness of recon.

Many apologies if I have seemed insensitive, or obtuse.
I simply wish to avoid the shoals that so many previous threads on this topic have foundered upon.



1
Pointing something out, as you initially did with the value of PvE play, is often done when the perception exists that it is not clearly understood.
Since we are all on the same page, all play styles having value, I hope we can dispense with obvious details moving forward.

2
Counters exist, when a need is demonstrated for them.
The counter for cloaking, is local chat. Or, more to the point, the counter for local chat is cloaking.
Knowing someone is present in the system, clearly diminishes the impact they can have from unexpected attacks.
To explain it more clearly in reverse, if local tells you no neutral or hostile pilots are present, you know with absolute certainty that no immediate danger exists from cloaked threats. You are given a perfect awareness of your safety.

3
Your choice to disregard options, already pointed out by Jenn aSide and others in terms of PvP fitting, is implied by this.
Perhaps you should clarify, and say no options exist that you are comfortable using.

4
I am sorry if you read more into my statement than I intended.

5
Invulnerability by cloak, is an exaggeration if taken literally. Many gate camps successfully stop and destroy ships attempting to use a cloak, in order to bypass their defense.
The real invulnerability in this, is the simple avoidance of contact.
You don't even need a real cloak, just like the so-called AFK cloaking player doesn't need a cyno.
The opposing players who BELIEVE that it is a cloaked ship, and is fitted with a cyno, makes all actual fitting needs unnecessary.
The cloak is so powerful, they only have to think you have one....

You're welcome and thank you.

I see your point, but disagree also.
My reason being is, I don't see why I should be able to decloak them. They cannot hurt me and I them. At the point they become a real threat, I can return the favour.

I do feel that null is rather too safe to a certain degree. Pilots in a system see someone enter and either dock or pos up. There needs to be the chance of a threat that cannot simply be removed or dismissed so easily. If some on this subject had their way, then probes or some pos decloaking module would rule the day. But then apart from large groups and blobs, what threat would others pose?

I would side with you more, if it were the case that cloakers could shoot and kill others, without opening themselves up to any threat. But because that isn't possible, I simply cannot.

I have no doubt that some pilots are affected by someone AFK for hours in their system, but many are not. When we have a situation that local intel is a guarantee, whereas the effects from AFKing are not. It seems to me those locals already have an edge.

I can see the argument that we have two broken systems at present. Cloaking and local. But they counter each other and as I have said before, add what I believe is a great edge to the game. Game play not often seen in MMOs. Psychological warfare.

Now even though I like the current situation, I would be fine with change if all relevant mechanics were changed as part of a package. New ways to gather intel, new ways to hunt cloakers. Chat could then be moved to say for example, constellation only.
It's not the we're averse to change, it's simply that we wish it done correctly.

AFK Cloaking is detrimental to the game. I don't care to debate this fact it is very detrimental it needs to be nerfed and im sick and tired of the staff reposting the debate after so many have begged that it get nerfed or wiped off the map.

I really don't even know your intention of posting this thread if ccp refuses to look into the issue. what is the point? so we debate this issue for another year and CCP once again pretends there is no issue.

if you're going to allow griefing and the like simply say so..

(cloaks back up cause there's nothing can be done about it)
(back to eating my Cheetos while I freak locals out while im AFK)

Yeah... You lost me here... One word: Bait.

Whining should not be allowed on the forums...CCP response...

Have an issue, heres a tissue.

What would that accomplish, AFK cloakers won't be there to lock anyway...since they are AFK.

Oh this is not true, this thread was posted because ISD were locking every thread about AFK cloaking, most often before 10 posts were able to get in. CCP has stated in the CSM 9 minutes that AFK cloaking is a non-issue.

"AFK cloaking is an entirely social form of power. To me, it is the equivalent of posting on the forums until someone stops ratting."
- CCP Fozzie, CSM 9 Summer Minutes

yeah...they didnt open a thread about it and say:

'Sorry we keep locking your repetitive threads. put all your crap here. seven threads less to close per week'

edit- and as far as i can tell, ISD made this thread. Not CCP.