These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Proteus] Reduction in Fighter and Fighter Bomber scan resolution

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
midnight chase
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2015-01-07 14:19:41 UTC
so by practically eliminating capital drones in sov warfare, there is going to be a mas cull of capital pilots due to this, which now brings me onto my next point at first i was all for the jump fatigue introduction but seeing it rack up, ccp ytou are now killing the game for more experienced players.


jump fatigue and light year ratio it should of been one or the other not flipping both, this is starting to kill the game on a capital and sub cap level, if you want to nerf capital drones then get rid of the assign drones to intercepters and sub caps now that is op and broken, and intercepter doing batlleship damage thats way too op
Sarah Nahrnid
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#342 - 2015-01-07 14:20:53 UTC
Panther X wrote:
afkalt wrote:


Or you know....there's the whole obligation to patch exploits.


How is reducing scan resolution on fighter bombers fixing an exploit?

When was the last time you repeatedly SCOOPED fighterbombers? Actually while you're at it, when was the last time anyone did?

Read the explanation of the fix and tell me what this exploit addressed?

No one scoops fighterbombers. You recall them because they have to fly to a target.I mean unless you are bombing yourself.

You scoop SENTRIES, my good man.

My super flies at what 68m/s. I don't know about yours with the 10,000mn Estamel's Modified MWD. If I'm going 68m/s and fighterbombers go at whatever MWD speed they go at.. Do the maths.

They have to orbit the target and get in optimal range to attack.

This is the lowest common denominator type of fix. I'm not sure how you don't understand why we are asking why they can't explain the actual reason for this type of "fix" at all. It. Doesn't. Make. Sense.

I can understand that if they explain "we nerfed scan resolution because it causes X" "Here's the numbers as to why we reduced it to X amount"

You might as well have put up a "Youmadbro?" Meme for all your argument. Are all drones not coded the same? Fighters and bombers down to ewar? I haven't seen the code. Have you? Has any one? Everyone talks about the code of this particular mechanic like they wrote it themselves. I'm not a coder. I haven't seen it, so I don't know. But I don't like being peed on and told that its raining. If one does it, they should all do it. Fix all drones if this is an exploit.


Pretty much this. FBs are ONLY good for Caps and Sov structures (See iHubs, SBUs, TCUs, Outposts, POS mods)
I can understand the scan res hit on fighters, it makes sense at least. Even if the whole "exploit" thing is true though, impractical.
Before anyone says it/brings it up, you can't assign Bombers like you can fighters. It does not work, period and I've tried.

Oh and like I've said in a previous post, my Aeon with 5 Tyrfings and 5 Cyclops shot my Rattlesnake (3 extenders, 4 hardeners and T1 shield extender rigs) and did 83 damage per bomber every 15 seconds, whilst it was not moving and had 2 Republic fleet TPs on it.

So anyone who says Bombers are effective against subcaps is actually talking out their ass or has no idea what they're talking about.
Bombers do absolutely NOTHING to anything that's not the size of a small moon sig radius wise.

TL;DR: For fighters understandable for bombers this is trash and completely unnecessary.
Niskin
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#343 - 2015-01-07 15:05:39 UTC
This doesn't seem that hard to figure out. POS/Sov arrays don't move. You can sit at zero on them. You can launch fighter bombers, then scoop/recall them, then launch them, then scoop/recall them, over and over again. This provides for up to a 50% DPS increase on any target that can be attacked in this way. They changed the scan res to prevent this from happening, maybe not the perfect fix but it solves the problem with minimal impact in other areas.

Having the damage applied at the end of the cycle is another potentially good fix, as another poster mentioned. Another way to go at it would be to lower the signature of the mods most likely to be shot in this way, but that would take a lot more effort and might not catch all the scenarios.

It's Dark In Here - The Lonely Wormhole Blog

Remember kiddies: the best ship in Eve is Friendship.

-MooMooDachshundCow
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#344 - 2015-01-07 15:13:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
midnight chase wrote:
so by practically eliminating capital drones in sov warfare, there is going to be a mas cull of capital pilots due to this, which now brings me onto my next point at first i was all for the jump fatigue introduction but seeing it rack up, ccp ytou are now killing the game for more experienced players.


jump fatigue and light year ratio it should of been one or the other not flipping both, this is starting to kill the game on a capital and sub cap level, if you want to nerf capital drones then get rid of the assign drones to intercepters and sub caps now that is op and broken, and intercepter doing batlleship damage thats way too op


You don't obviously know what you are talking about...

So you'll stop to use FBs because of a scan res nerf ? Srly ?

And Capital projection nerf is killing the game ? What the hell are you saying... It saved the game.

Niskin wrote:
This doesn't seem that hard to figure out.


For some ppl it is.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#345 - 2015-01-07 15:17:39 UTC
I like how everybody seems to be hunting for what the exploit use might be for ship on ship combat when I think it's pretty obvious it would be best be used against stationary target like structures where you could stay right on top of it and deploy/scoop over and over again to finish your grind that much faster...
SpikeyWelsh
The Malleus Maleficarum
Random Violence.
#346 - 2015-01-07 15:17:51 UTC
nerf nerf nerf nerf

@fozzie, iff you wanne get rid of guys who have worked months or years to get there char into such ships, and devoted a lot of
isk/time to get one why dont you just remove all supers and titans............and give people there isk/SP back

Nerf 1: 50% extra fuel consumption
Nerf 2: Max 5ly jumprange with space aids......yeah yeah called`` jump fatique``
Nerf 3: fighters and bombers.....and not a little....90%


Whats next?

Slave sets not working for capitals anymore? like chrystals... or

Same crap iff you look into the folowing..12 interceptors can point a super, and still the super will warp of. iff you build a mobile warp disruptor ( made of 12 warp desruptors) and depoy it, a super will be caught.
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#347 - 2015-01-07 15:21:02 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
nerf nerf nerf nerf

@fozzie, iff you wanne get rid of guys who have worked months or years to get there char into such ships, and devoted a lot of
isk/time to get one why dont you just remove all supers and titans............and give people there isk/SP back

Nerf 1: 50% extra fuel consumption
Nerf 2: Max 5ly jumprange with space aids......yeah yeah called`` jump fatique``
Nerf 3: fighters and bombers.....and not a little....90%


Whats next?

Slave sets not working for capitals anymore? like chrystals... or

Same crap iff you look into the folowing..12 interceptors can point a super, and still the super will warp of. iff you build a mobile warp disruptor ( made of 12 warp desruptors) and depoy it, a super will be caught.


Cry us a river...
FearlessLittleToaster
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2015-01-07 15:32:00 UTC
Fozzie,

You are disrupting the natural cycle of Eve exploits. It should work like this:

1. Some really really clever players figure out how to do something and exploit the crap out of it.
2. The information spreads across the game and eventually the enemies of Goons adopt it as a common tactic.
3. Goons, being stupid and slow on the uptake for these sorts of things, cry about it like little girls while burning.
3 1/2. The people using the exploit insist that it is supposed to work that way and we need to HTFU.
4. Goons utilize the massive organizational ability of our dreaded middle management to adopt the exploit, figure out how to further min/max the exploit, and implement it as a doctrine coalition wide.
5. Idiocy and rage-posting are turned up to 11 cluster-wide.
6. Patch.

Now it looks like this:

1. Some really really clever players figure out how to do something and exploit the crap out of it.
2. You go "oh, hey, that's not supposed to do that" and fix it.

I find this to be an unnatural perversion that flies in the face of years of tradition dating back to at least 2006. Please post a detailed guide on how to use this right away so that the natural order can be restored. Otherwise the skies shall become as fire, the seas shall turn to blood, dogs and cats will live together in peace, and I will suddenly start to like gin.

In all seriousness though, I'm delighted that you caught/fixed this before it became a real issue. The new release cycle and so on are awesome but seeing a proactive change to prevent an exploit before it became a real problem makes me happier than I have been in a long time about the future of the game.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#349 - 2015-01-07 15:49:54 UTC
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
Fozzie,

You are disrupting the natural cycle of Eve exploits. It should work like this:

1. Some really really clever players figure out how to do something and exploit the crap out of it.
2. The information spreads across the game and eventually the enemies of Goons adopt it as a common tactic.
3. Goons, being stupid and slow on the uptake for these sorts of things, cry about it like little girls while burning.
3 1/2. The people using the exploit insist that it is supposed to work that way and we need to HTFU.
4. Goons utilize the massive organizational ability of our dreaded middle management to adopt the exploit, figure out how to further min/max the exploit, and implement it as a doctrine coalition wide.
5. Idiocy and rage-posting are turned up to 11 cluster-wide.
6. Patch.

Now it looks like this:

1. Some really really clever players figure out how to do something and exploit the crap out of it.
2. You go "oh, hey, that's not supposed to do that" and fix it.

I find this to be an unnatural perversion that flies in the face of years of tradition dating back to at least 2006. Please post a detailed guide on how to use this right away so that the natural order can be restored. Otherwise the skies shall become as fire, the seas shall turn to blood, dogs and cats will live together in peace, and I will suddenly start to like gin.

In all seriousness though, I'm delighted that you caught/fixed this before it became a real issue. The new release cycle and so on are awesome but seeing a proactive change to prevent an exploit before it became a real problem makes me happier than I have been in a long time about the future of the game.



This. At least a few others saw the obvious exploit too - structure grinding.

C'mon folks, this was a post by Fozzie explaining a fix that they can make entirely through data changes without harming any code (and thus not taking eleventeen QA cycles to test and retest) before it can be released.

Don't make mountains out of molehills - I'm sure CCP are aware of other issues involving drones. This one is a small fix.

Analogy: Your mom noticed that your little brother was hungry and gave him a snack. She is probably aware that this does nothing to end world hunger, but it wasn't the problem she was looking to solve.



I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#350 - 2015-01-07 15:58:30 UTC
SpikeyWelsh wrote:
nerf nerf nerf nerf

@fozzie, iff you wanne get rid of guys who have worked months or years to get there char into such ships, and devoted a lot of
isk/time to get one why dont you just remove all supers and titans............and give people there isk/SP back

Nerf 1: 50% extra fuel consumption
Nerf 2: Max 5ly jumprange with space aids......yeah yeah called`` jump fatique``
Nerf 3: fighters and bombers.....and not a little....90%


Whats next?

Slave sets not working for capitals anymore? like chrystals... or

Same crap iff you look into the folowing..12 interceptors can point a super, and still the super will warp of. iff you build a mobile warp disruptor ( made of 12 warp desruptors) and depoy it, a super will be caught.


Your obvious butt hurt is amusing.
Also, you're using iff incorrectly.

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Jean Luc Lemmont
Carebears on Fire
#351 - 2015-01-07 16:01:04 UTC
midnight chase wrote:
so by practically eliminating capital drones in sov warfare, there is going to be a mas cull of capital pilots due to this, which now brings me onto my next point at first i was all for the jump fatigue introduction but seeing it rack up, ccp ytou are now killing the game for more experienced players.


Yes, because fixing a potential exploit is a way to kill the game. As opposed to, you know, not fixing it, which would cause no harm at all. Roll

To me it seems more like they're moving further along the road of making capitals strategic assets rather than things you toss around "just because".

Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!

This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury

It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#352 - 2015-01-07 16:03:22 UTC
War Kitten wrote:


This. At least a few others saw the obvious exploit too - structure grinding.




If the defense for something labeled by CCP as an exploit involve the target moving, find a target that can't.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#353 - 2015-01-07 16:07:57 UTC
man this thread is probably the best parachute honey pot in recent memory
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#354 - 2015-01-07 16:08:46 UTC
just in case y'all forgot, it's drone scan resolution that is being nerfed

let that sink in a bit
d r o n e s c a n r e s o l u t i o n

it means practically nothing
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#355 - 2015-01-07 16:11:05 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
just in case y'all forgot, it's drone scan resolution that is being nerfed

let that sink in a bit
d r o n e s c a n r e s o l u t i o n

it means practically nothing


It means something if you go from target to target often but I don't know any use case for this to happen. Do supercap blap target within 2 drone cycle worth of damage?
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#356 - 2015-01-07 16:11:50 UTC
i mean i get that the prevailing attitude by detractors ITT is that since one spent northwards of 10b isk on a single ship, that one has purchased exemption from all possible reductions in power

but jesus christ, it's just not that big of a deal

all it does is make your capital-sized drones take a few scant moments longer to start applying damage

that is literally all it does to anyone using the drones in the bog-standard, non-exploitative manner


then again, this is a nice little window into the future reactions after the real nerfs get posted

crap, now i'm torn
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#357 - 2015-01-07 16:12:28 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
War Kitten wrote:


This. At least a few others saw the obvious exploit too - structure grinding.




If the defense for something labeled by CCP as an exploit involve the target moving, find a target that can't.


Knee-jerking at the word "nerf" is easier than thinking.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#358 - 2015-01-07 16:13:08 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
just in case y'all forgot, it's drone scan resolution that is being nerfed

let that sink in a bit
d r o n e s c a n r e s o l u t i o n

it means practically nothing


It means something if you go from target to target often but I don't know any use case for this to happen. Do supercap blap target within 2 drone cycle worth of damage?

it basically only matters if you're using fighters to shoot rats

and no one is going to shed a tear at that experiencing an infinitesimal reduction in efficiency
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#359 - 2015-01-07 16:21:59 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
just in case y'all forgot, it's drone scan resolution that is being nerfed

let that sink in a bit
d r o n e s c a n r e s o l u t i o n

it means practically nothing


It means something if you go from target to target often but I don't know any use case for this to happen. Do supercap blap target within 2 drone cycle worth of damage?

it basically only matters if you're using fighters to shoot rats

and no one is going to shed a tear at that experiencing an infinitesimal reduction in efficiency


You should hear some of the conversations on comms about that nonsense - those types live and breathe for infinitesimal reductions.

Isk/hour >> all!

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#360 - 2015-01-07 16:26:42 UTC
War Kitten wrote:

You should hear some of the conversations on comms about that nonsense - those types live and breathe for infinitesimal reductions.

Isk/hour >> all!

fortunately those sorts are disconsolate, sub-human spergs whose acrimony can safely be discarded