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What about Off Grid Boosting?

First post
Author
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#141 - 2014-12-04 15:26:57 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

That's a really bad strawman. You can't do anything at all inside POS shields aside from activating a limited list of personal modules, so not being able to boost from within the shield is very consistent with all of the other remote assistance restrictions that entails. Try again.


I can't rep or transfer cap to someone who is not on grid with me, so not being able to boost someone who is not on grid with me would be consistent with all of the other forms of remote assistance.

Even providing fleet bonuses and assigning fighters?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#142 - 2014-12-04 15:29:56 UTC
Oh yeah forgot about those.

Delete all boosts, logi, and caps. IMHO. Roll
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#143 - 2014-12-04 15:32:16 UTC
Now we're talkin'.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2014-12-04 15:54:15 UTC
I haven't read the replies on this thread.

My understanding is that CCP has hated off-grid boosting for a while. I was pretty involved in the threads to update the Rorqual, and the topic of off-grid boosting was a topic there, and one of the points made was that CCP is trying to find a way to make the Rorqual survive on grid so that they could get rid of off-grid boosting.

My guess is that off-grid boosting will go away at some point, but preparatory steps have not been made yet.

As for my input, this toon that I am posting on is my Rorqual and Orca pilot and as such is mapped for leadership, and I have recently decided to train dear old Paynus for a Claymore. So I have been thinking about boosting and whatnot. Now while Paynus is an alt and I would benefit greatly from off-grid boosting (my main is a maxed out snake-fitted frigate pilot), I must admit that I do hope off-grid boosting goes away so that booster pilots are actually a player career, rather than an alt career. I think it would make a dent in Eve's "Alts Online" nature.

With that, however, I think CCP should introduce some T2 destroyers that offer a 1% link bonus (where T3s give 2% and Command Ships give 3%). So boosting would still be available to small-ship low sec groups. The destroyers should not be able to use a covert cloak. I would also like to see T3s be reconfigured somehow so that they cannot fit both cloak and links. Basically, make the boosting subsystem an offensive subsystem instead of a defensive subsystem. So you have to choose a cloak subsystem or a boost subsystem but you can't have both.

I think off-grid boosting should go away and boosting should be an actual career for a skilled player, with more ships available to provide boosts in a wider variety of contexts, and with T3s nerfed a bit in their ability to boost, in addition to requiring on grid boosts across the board. I think this should apply to the Orca as well - it must be in the belt with the miners to give mining boosts. I think the Rorqual should be given a role bonus that makes it the only ship in the game that can boost off-grid, at least until they crack the nut of how to make it survivable in the belts.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#145 - 2014-12-04 16:01:30 UTC
Well, maybe you should read the replies, because some of them make very important points about why on-grid boosting is a bad idea.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2014-12-04 16:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Aiyshimin wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.

people invested months of training and subscription to train for it.
its also a compleet valid mechanic.

so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.

offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.

end of discussion.


This is the most ******** argument for keeping any ******** mechanic in general. Having an alt-tabbed alt that automagically wins you fights should not be a pre-requisite for PVP.



No, the crappiest argument for keeping something is "because I had to do it". Brutus is spot-on right in his reply to you, and all you can do is continue the temper tantrum.

Boosting doesn't make you automatically win. You still have to put out effort, and you can still be overwhelmed, outmaneuvered, and outsmarted. Boosts just give you a little extra.

Your posts still smack of "I want it gone because I'm afraid of using it, and hate fighting it".

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#147 - 2014-12-04 16:13:21 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Well, maybe you should read the replies, because some of them make very important points about why on-grid boosting is a bad idea.


Alright I read everything. I still think off-grid boosting should go away and boosting should be modified. There wasn't really anything substantial other than Steve's post about the technical challenges of getting rid of off-grid boosting.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2014-12-04 16:19:36 UTC
You should be able to receive boosts from a ship in an adjacent star system. Also, links should be active while cloaked.

It's not that hard to spend $200 on PLEX and go buy a booster alt. Stop being so lazy you dirty looters. It will be harder to farm effortless mails in an 8k m/s garmur when everyone has links but hey **** happens.

I make a lot of money so I really enjoy pay 2 win games.
Zahhadune
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2014-12-04 16:22:16 UTC
Why not just have a small icon that shows someone is getting OGB. Doesn't that solve everything? You know the person is getting OGB and you can bounce if you don't want to play??
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#150 - 2014-12-04 16:22:22 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
You should be able to receive boosts from a ship in an adjacent star system. Also, links should be active while cloaked.

It's not that hard to spend $200 on PLEX and go buy a booster alt. Stop being so lazy you dirty looters. It will be harder to farm effortless mails in an 8k m/s garmur when everyone has links but hey **** happens.

I make a lot of money so I really enjoy pay 2 win games.


Removed for trolling

-PPC Warde

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#151 - 2014-12-04 16:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
You should be able to receive boosts from a ship in an adjacent star system. Also, links should be active while cloaked.

It's not that hard to spend $200 on PLEX and go buy a booster alt. Stop being so lazy you dirty looters. It will be harder to farm effortless mails in an 8k m/s garmur when everyone has links but hey **** happens.

I make a lot of money so I really enjoy pay 2 win games.


I get it and I agree.

Adding the pay to win aspect is a a very strong point for getting rid of off-grid boosting. This confirms my point that boosting should be something that a real pilot should have to do.

Arguments that getting rid of off-grid boosting will kill boosting because people will just bring logi are merely speculative and are without merit. If on grid booster ships are given the tools to survive, they'll be used. Sure, it would kill boosting just one guy. But fleet boosting is for fleets. Devoting a real player to 1 extra logi ship for a fleet of 2 instead of boosting the fleet of 2 would happen. But one player boosting a fleet of 20 is far more valuable than one extra logi. With the right balancing and attention on-grid boosting would still be very valuable and commonly used and actuallyy an exciting PvP career.

But boosting should be something that an actual player has to devote attention and skill to. Alt careers are essentially pay to win.
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2014-12-04 16:43:51 UTC
Zahhadune wrote:
Why not just have a small icon that shows someone is getting OGB. Doesn't that solve everything? You know the person is getting OGB and you can bounce if you don't want to play??


That doesn´t solve the problem in a proper way, because we need a solution that does not decrease the amount of action you get.

Finding out if somebody uses an offgrid booster isn´t hard, not even today. Usually, they sit on gates or stations anyway.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com

Zahhadune
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2014-12-04 16:54:16 UTC
Right, I get that Charlie, but to the OP, they were concerned that this was going to drive away new players. Newer players can't quickly figure it out and some sort of icon would be easy to implement under the current system and would benefit newer players.

I am an old PVE vet. I suck at PVP. I am currently flying with an up and coming pvp corp with a ton of newish pilots. We don't know enough "yet" to check the gates, stations etc to look for boosters, or have the time when roaming to scan down people.

If nothing else, some sort of icon would be a decent bandaid for a larger code rewrite.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#154 - 2014-12-04 16:56:33 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Soon™



Off-grid boosting should stay.
Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it.


This.

Nothing stops you from finding and do some Alpha-loot-pinata on a ship.


OP. Be happy, they already changed it so you cant boost from the safety of a POS forcefield. If you think current system is flawed, try a system where you cant even touch the booster in the first place.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#155 - 2014-12-04 16:56:46 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:

Boosting doesn't make you automatically win. You still have to put out effort, and you can still be overwhelmed, outmaneuvered, and outsmarted. Boosts just give you a little extra.

Your posts still smack of "I want it gone because I'm afraid of using it, and hate fighting it".


When two otherwise equal parties meets, the side with boosts will win. This is why links are so common.

And what comes to your pathetic babbling about my motivations, this character is a perfect mindlinked booster that I use both off and on grid. I've had access to OGB for a few years now, but surprise- it doesn't make it a good mechanic, actually it doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Your post is just a sad attempt and justifying the existence of a completely ******** game mechanic with some imaginary space-envy.



J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#156 - 2014-12-04 16:58:08 UTC
Shaleb Heworo wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Soon™



Off-grid boosting should stay.
Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it.


Can't do that without a probing account. Which brings you back to the point where a second account shifts the odds to a point where you basically "need" one to compete in pvp. Can you see how this might discourage new players?



Hahhahahhaha.

Really, are you that annoying to play with.

You do know it is a MMO so instead of thinking in accounts....think in friends.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#157 - 2014-12-04 17:01:45 UTC
J'Poll wrote:

You do know it is a MMO so instead of thinking in accounts....think in friends.


Why don't you ask your friends to OGB for you, this is a MMO after all. If you don't have a friend who will sit in a safespot or on a gate doing jack **** nothing while you fight, well, sucks to be you.

Or was this about accounts after all.

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2014-12-04 17:14:14 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Soon™



Off-grid boosting should stay.
Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it.


This.

Nothing stops you from finding and do some Alpha-loot-pinata on a ship.


OP. Be happy, think they already changed it so you cant boost from the safety of a POS forcefield. If you think current system is flawed, try a system where you cant even touch the booster in the first place.


Let me just go grab my fully skilled virtue prober alt...oh wait..let me hit the character bazaar for that too. Scan down a strategic cruiser while playing tag with his main in frigs? No problem. I'm sure it's equally distracting for him to micromanage his booster in the delicate art of well...doing nothing. Glance at scan for combat probes or yellow boxing if you're on gate or station maybe. Risk? Minimal. Reward? "Lol @ this guy trying to kill my condor with warrior ll's."
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#159 - 2014-12-04 17:18:34 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

You do know it is a MMO so instead of thinking in accounts....think in friends.


Why don't you ask your friends to OGB for you, this is a MMO after all. If you don't have a friend who will sit in a safespot or on a gate doing jack **** nothing while you fight, well, sucks to be you.

Or was this about accounts after all.



Or ask your friends to form a fleet and alpha the booster...problem solved..

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2014-12-04 17:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarod Garamonde
Aiyshimin wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:

Boosting doesn't make you automatically win. You still have to put out effort, and you can still be overwhelmed, outmaneuvered, and outsmarted. Boosts just give you a little extra.

Your posts still smack of "I want it gone because I'm afraid of using it, and hate fighting it".


When two otherwise equal parties meets, the side with boosts will win. This is why links are so common.

And what comes to your pathetic babbling about my motivations, this character is a perfect mindlinked booster that I use both off and on grid. I've had access to OGB for a few years now, but surprise- it doesn't make it a good mechanic, actually it doesn't have anything to do with this topic. Your post is just a sad attempt and justifying the existence of a completely ******** game mechanic with some imaginary space-envy.






You are CLEARLY not a lowsec small-gang PvP'er. (Actually, your ZKill history shows you're a WH-dweller).
Not only is your statement sensationalist and misleading, but you aren't even backing it up with anything but more infantile tantrums.

My alliance doesn't always go out there and ROFLstomp the other guys. We lose to un-boosted fleets. We also win while we're un-boosted or underboosted.
For the last time.... you still have to put out effort. Having bonuses doesn't make up for crap fits or pisspoor piloting, or "trickling in" to a fight, and it certainly doesn't change the effect gate guns have on a brawl.

Edit: Oh, so you're an Absolution pilot..... THAT'S why you want boosts on-grid. So you can see everyone else forced to play the same way you do. I now know precisely what your motivations are.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]