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What about Off Grid Boosting?

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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#121 - 2014-12-04 07:23:10 UTC
My take on links, repost from another forum and from F&I

Links should be turned into targeted high-slot modules with RR-like range. Details are up to discussion & further development, but here's the basic lowdown repeated for the Nth time.

This requires:

1. A new small link ship (Command Destroyer would be a pretty good candidate) to better keep up with skirmish gangs and allow use in FW
2. All link ships need 9 high slots (not 9 turret/launcher hardpoints)
3. Links need to have their fitting requirements redone to allow fitting 9 links without Command Processors
4. Links need to use a non-trivial amount of capacitor
5. Adjusting CSs and T3s to make sure they all have approximately equal (or equally non-existent) damage dealing capabilities when running links (think current Eos vs the rest)
6. Links need to have their bonuses dropped considerably, because

- targeted links of the same type are stacking penalized, but several can be activated on a single ship
- links can be overheated


This solution has the following benefits:

1. It solves the offgrid issue in an elegant way without recoding EVE Online bu using existing methods
2. It makes links scale with fleet size (one link ship can only boost a squad)
3. It removes the 100% alt account gameplay, but instead of resulting in mass-biomassing of all the OGB toons, it turns boosters into a new combat role that is actually exciting to play and emphasizes player skill. Currently nobody flies OGB as their main.


Links today are like champions/standard-bearers/musicians in fantasy strategy games, simply providing a blanket stats boost as long as they meet two conditions, be in fleet and present in system. I'd like to see links turned into "bards", that cast buffing spells on selected fleet members to improve their performance in critical situations. Basic gameplay is similar to logistics in EVE, but is more proactive in nature.

tl,dr; instead of being simple "engage links, receive bacon for whole fleet", targeted links do **** all nothing without the pilot making the right choices at the right time, while flying his ship on grid.

- not a finished idea as what comes to the stats, but and idea worth developing imho.

Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-12-04 07:29:05 UTC

As bards it would make sense for the OGB to sing on comms for as long as they would want the boost to last.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#123 - 2014-12-04 07:31:51 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
My take on links, repost from another forum and from F&I

Links should be turned into targeted high-slot modules with RR-like range. Details are up to discussion & further development, but here's the basic lowdown repeated for the Nth time.

This requires:

1. A new small link ship (Command Destroyer would be a pretty good candidate) to better keep up with skirmish gangs and allow use in FW
2. All link ships need 9 high slots (not 9 turret/launcher hardpoints)
3. Links need to have their fitting requirements redone to allow fitting 9 links without Command Processors
4. Links need to use a non-trivial amount of capacitor
5. Adjusting CSs and T3s to make sure they all have approximately equal (or equally non-existent) damage dealing capabilities when running links (think current Eos vs the rest)
6. Links need to have their bonuses dropped considerably, because

- targeted links of the same type are stacking penalized, but several can be activated on a single ship
- links can be overheated


This solution has the following benefits:

1. It solves the offgrid issue in an elegant way without recoding EVE Online bu using existing methods
2. It makes links scale with fleet size (one link ship can only boost a squad)
3. It removes the 100% alt account gameplay, but instead of resulting in mass-biomassing of all the OGB toons, it turns boosters into a new combat role that is actually exciting to play and emphasizes player skill. Currently nobody flies OGB as their main.


Links today are like champions/standard-bearers/musicians in fantasy strategy games, simply providing a blanket stats boost as long as they meet two conditions, be in fleet and present in system. I'd like to see links turned into "bards", that cast buffing spells on selected fleet members to improve their performance in critical situations. Basic gameplay is similar to logistics in EVE, but is more proactive in nature.

tl,dr; instead of being simple "engage links, receive bacon for whole fleet", targeted links do **** all nothing without the pilot making the right choices at the right time, while flying his ship on grid.

- not a finished idea as what comes to the stats, but and idea worth developing imho.


Congratulations, you've made links too much of a pain in the ass to use. So much for the "instead of resulting in mass-biomassing" part.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#124 - 2014-12-04 07:33:18 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:

Congratulations, you've made links too much of a pain in the ass to use. So much for the "instead of resulting in mass-biomassing" part.


I can't really agree with that, I'd find flying this kind of link ship very interesting.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#125 - 2014-12-04 07:43:05 UTC
"since this is my first post I will excuse myself from searching for past discussions about a topic that was discussed many times before"
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#126 - 2014-12-04 07:54:36 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
idea

Congratulations, you've made links too much of a pain in the ass to use. So much for the "instead of resulting in mass-biomassing" part.

Yeah, more or less this. If links become targeted modules, then you might as well bring logistics or another combat ship instead, because you'll get more utility that way. Unless, of course, links become much, much stronger. But then that leads to a whole different set of balance issues.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#127 - 2014-12-04 08:03:01 UTC
Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#128 - 2014-12-04 08:36:04 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc.

The only reason why boosting is useful is because it's a force projection mechanism. If boosting operated on a 1:1 correspondence with provider/receiver, then it would be universally more advantageous to bring another combat ship instead, unless the links were made to be significantly stronger.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#129 - 2014-12-04 08:39:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc.

The only reason why boosting is useful is because it's a force projection mechanism. If boosting operated on a 1:1 correspondence with provider/receiver, then it would be universally more advantageous to bring another combat ship instead, unless the links were made to be significantly stronger.

And even then logistics would be vastly superior to WFL.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#130 - 2014-12-04 08:44:19 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Same reasons to use links still apply- the side with links is faster, tanks more, has more tackle range, is harder to jam etc.

The only reason why boosting is useful is because it's a force projection mechanism. If boosting operated on a 1:1 correspondence with provider/receiver, then it would be universally more advantageous to bring another combat ship instead, unless the links were made to be significantly stronger.


Yeah, I guess 1:1 would be pretty pointless, but my suggestion is 1:9.



McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#131 - 2014-12-04 08:56:36 UTC
Just thinking a bit outside the box now...

How about FW sites don't allow for boosts to function within them? Either certain sites or all the sites. This would protect messing with boost mechanics outside of that specific situation.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#132 - 2014-12-04 11:25:27 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Timer inheritance is very much acceptable and makes sense, as long as the criminal flag discrepancy I mentioned earlier is addressed. Timers, kill mails, and sensor strength rebalancing delivered as a package should constitute an acceptable solution to this perceived problem, while keeping the overall balance of power intact.


Weapons timer would be perfectly fine for me. All I want is to be able to shoot them with my frigates :)

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Brutus Le'montac
#133 - 2014-12-04 12:23:25 UTC
Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.

people invested months of training and subscription to train for it.
its also a compleet valid mechanic.

so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.

offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.

end of discussion.

Thought is dangerous; lack of thought, deadly!
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#134 - 2014-12-04 13:13:21 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.

people invested months of training and subscription to train for it.
its also a compleet valid mechanic.

so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.

offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.

end of discussion.


This is the most ******** argument for keeping any ******** mechanic in general. Having an alt-tabbed alt that automagically wins you fights should not be a pre-requisite for PVP.

Charlie Firpol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#135 - 2014-12-04 13:23:29 UTC
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
scan and kill it
end of discussion.


I will say it just for you again:

You don´t have to scan down an offgrid booster, because they are at gates/stations, protected by sentry guns.

You can´t kill an offgrid booster, because they are at gates/stations, protected by sentry guns.

(strictly speaking from my factional warfare perspective, as we´re flying frigs and dessies 9 out of 10 times)

I hope this helps you to understand where the problem lies and I hope that you can now add something useful to this discussion.

The Butcher of Black Rise - eve-radio.com
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#136 - 2014-12-04 14:43:33 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Soon™



Off-grid boosting should stay.
Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it.

Booster should be able to be active from behind pos shields.
Don't like it? Find the moon and kill the PoS.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#137 - 2014-12-04 14:43:52 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Brutus Le'montac wrote:
Train up for an ogb yourself, or stop whining. this is clearly the "he cant haz nice things cuz i dont haz them" kinda behavior.

people invested months of training and subscription to train for it.
its also a compleet valid mechanic.

so its easy, get one yourself or stop your whining behavior.

offgrid boosting is fine. scan and kill it, or bring your own.

end of discussion.


This is the most ******** argument for keeping any ******** mechanic in general. Having an alt-tabbed alt that automagically wins you fights should not be a pre-requisite for PVP.


They don't, and it's not.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#138 - 2014-12-04 14:50:20 UTC
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Soon™



Off-grid boosting should stay.
Don't like it? Probe down the booster alt, and kill it.

Booster should be able to be active from behind pos shields.
Don't like it? Find the moon and kill the PoS.

That's a really bad strawman. You can't do anything at all inside POS shields aside from activating a limited list of personal modules, so not being able to boost from within the shield is very consistent with all of the other remote assistance restrictions that entails. Try again.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2014-12-04 15:09:40 UTC

Another option would be to start adding Logi ships to killmails. This would introduce a new meta for data collection of which PVP pilots hang out with which Logi pilots by trawling killboards.

This way, if you are fighting someone, you know which Logi to be on the lookout for to probe down and kill.

It would also help you quickly identify who in Local is likely OGB.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#140 - 2014-12-04 15:21:19 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

That's a really bad strawman. You can't do anything at all inside POS shields aside from activating a limited list of personal modules, so not being able to boost from within the shield is very consistent with all of the other remote assistance restrictions that entails. Try again.


I can't rep or transfer cap to someone who is not on grid with me, so not being able to boost someone who is not on grid with me would be consistent with all of the other forms of remote assistance.