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What about Off Grid Boosting?

First post
Author
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#321 - 2014-12-06 08:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
Yea I can agree with that. It's hard to see when people are being boosted. That could be improved. It would allow players to pick their fights better. Once you're committed it can be hard to pull out again. I wasn't aware solo kill bragging is that much of a thing, but yea, having them show up on killmails would be nice too. Same for logi, but that's another discussion entirely. :P

Sibyyl wrote:
This is an interesting perspective, and it causes me to question my viewpoint (in addition to the point Des made about small gang PVP).

I recognized your name as soon as I saw your post. I spent a week researching skills in EVE before making a trial account, and your eveboard was the first thing I looked at to understand what a PVP pilot might have (at the time I didn't know that EVE was anything other than PVP). Those skills were pretty much the first things I ever put into an EVEMon plan to give myself an idea what a plan would even look like.
Thanks man, happy I was able to help out a fellow pilot. :D
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2014-12-06 08:23:45 UTC
Beledia Ilphukiir wrote:
I don't think people have so much problem with that. It's a clear 2 vs 1 situation then, which takes some of the sting out of losing and most the glory out of winning. It also means there are no hidden factors influencing the fight which is a big positive on its own, affecting factors are recorded in the killmail and all involved risked their ships on the field. It's by miles a better situation than having to guess what actually affected the fight and the multi account user being able to hide that affect.


Disagree with this point. Deception and asymmetric warfare are both hallmarks of EVE. This is not the game where deciphering your opponent's capabilities should be trivial or obvious.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#323 - 2014-12-06 08:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Aivo Dresden wrote:
While I see your point, it would be pretty brutal to remove boosts entirely.

and
Beledia Ilphukiir wrote:
I don't think people have so much problem with that. It's a clear 2 vs 1 situation then, which takes some of the sting out of losing and most the glory out of winning. It also means there are no hidden factors influencing the fight which is a big positive on its own, affecting factors are recorded in the killmail and all involved risked their ships on the field. It's by miles a better situation than having to guess what actually affected the fight and the multi account user being able to hide that affect.

I agree. That's why I think that they shouldn't be removed or placed on-grid. A balancing package consisting of timers, sensor strength, and possibly kill mail intelligence (although I wouldn't go as far as adding names/modules, maybe just some kind of additional "influenced by" statistic) could address boosters without making drastic changes. How about a visual effect directly on the ship if it's receiving bonuses, similar to various active modules? Then at least you'll have to work a little bit for the intelligence.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#324 - 2014-12-06 09:47:25 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:


First off, that's a two on one. Secondly, your logistic alt will tip the scale in your favor.

There's always a counter.

On top of that, I'd guess that frigate 1v1s are about 1/100th of 1% of the battles taking place in New Eden at any given time. Really not worth calling for a mechanic makeover, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen Cool


but that's the point of the thread, imho, we need to raise that 1%. Straight

Just Add Water

Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#325 - 2014-12-06 10:39:26 UTC
1. Combat links give a weapons timer.
2. Activating links increase signature for combat probes.

That would be a reasonable interim measure until they go on grid. Weapons timer would get rid of the gate huggers and station limpets. Sig increase should be lowered just a bit so you don't need a perfect scanner (with implants) to find them.

This would add a reasonable amount of risk for OGB without breaking any current game play.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#326 - 2014-12-06 11:02:41 UTC
Zappity wrote:
2. Activating links increase signature for combat probes.

I thought about this potential fix for booster probing issues for a while, and I have to say that it does make the most sense. This would allow probe resistance to scale with the amount of links used, which is superior to just raising signature radius or lowering sensor strength across the board.

So that's a +1 for me. Along with the timer of course.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#327 - 2014-12-06 11:06:44 UTC
Zappity wrote:
1. Combat links give a weapons timer.
2. Activating links increase signature for combat probes.

That would be a reasonable interim measure until they go on grid. Weapons timer would get rid of the gate huggers and station limpets. Sig increase should be lowered just a bit so you don't need a perfect scanner (with implants) to find them.

This would add a reasonable amount of risk for OGB without breaking any current game play.

I totally support this suggestion.
Jita Akachi
Doomheim
#328 - 2014-12-06 11:09:03 UTC
Burner Missions pit you against a single enemy NPC. This NPC is an extremely powerful frigate with stats based on those of a player flying a pirate frigate with officer/deadspace gear, pirate implants, and command links.

NPC use OGB now! Big smile

At the moment CCP can't remove OGB, but when they will can, how many account will be lost if you see some at "all gate" ?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#329 - 2014-12-06 11:20:46 UTC
Jita Akachi wrote:
At the moment CCP can't remove OGB, but when they will can, how many account will be lost if you see some at "all gate" ?

Boosters can easily be converted to valuable small-ship pilots with just a month or two of training, so I doubt any accounts will be lost. Also, I'd wager a guess that a good portion of boosters are already high-SP characters. OnGB isn't one of those "**** you CCP I'm done bye" issues; it's a "welp, there goes the ability to use a small gang" issue. And it won't fix the underlying "problem" (people not being "fair" in 1v1 fights) anyway.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Jita Akachi
Doomheim
#330 - 2014-12-06 11:23:54 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jita Akachi wrote:
At the moment CCP can't remove OGB, but when they will can, how many account will be lost if you see some at "all gate" ?

Boosters can easily be converted to valuable small-ship pilots with just a month or two of training, so I doubt any accounts will be lost. Also, I'd wager a guess that a good portion of boosters are already high-SP characters. OnGB isn't one of those "**** you CCP I'm done bye" issues; it's a "welp, there goes the ability to use a small gang" issue. And it won't fix the underlying "problem" (people not being "fair" in 1v1 fights) anyway.


lol
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#331 - 2014-12-06 11:26:03 UTC
Not sure what part of that was funny and why, but okay. What?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Jita Akachi
Doomheim
#332 - 2014-12-06 11:33:31 UTC
I use OGB myself, yes it's not a great mechanic, but remove that and i close asap an costly uneed account. I'm sure majority will do, pilot with ogb don't need an new "small-ship pilot".
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#333 - 2014-12-06 11:43:55 UTC
Since an OGB needs to be on an active account anyway, you might as well train it for something else. Most of them are probably like in the 40-60m SP ranges now.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#334 - 2014-12-06 11:46:57 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
I'm fine with OGB and I'll tell you why.

To make a good booster takes a long time. It's not like banging out a gank alt on a trial. It's more than six months of focused min/max training to do one simple thing. To add on grid capabilities to that would be another number of months.

So I feel there is enough of a penalty involved in training one that the balance is maintained. And as mentioned above, they can be probed down and easily blapped.

Mr Epeen Cool


You could use that same logic to argue why they are bad, or why you should get an alt for every defined fleet role. Personally I think it should either go or be reduced in effectiveness against on grid boosting. A dedicated on grid command ship should be better than an improbable of grid T3.
Jita Akachi
Doomheim
#335 - 2014-12-06 12:00:43 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Since an OGB needs to be on an active account anyway, you might as well train it for something else. Most of them are probably like in the 40-60m SP ranges now.


Nop, i will perhaps transfer a carachter before, bunt not really need, i can use a pve toon as a scout, or perhaps still use a boost on grid, but some km far away, with stab, cloack and tank, still pretty safe. Or make a falcon or griffin alt, dunno for now, i didn't yet asking myself as OBG will be here for a while.
Sir Constantin
#336 - 2014-12-06 14:32:11 UTC
+1
Off grid boost needs to be removed and replaced with something like a AoE of 20KM or something else, i don't know.

Forcing solo pvp'ers to have boosting alts to be able to kill someone in a similar fit is bad.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#337 - 2014-12-06 14:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tear Jar
Scipio Artelius wrote:

2. Bring ewar - links don't do anything for an opponent that can't lock you, track you, shoot you


Links can massive increase your sensor strength and lock range.
Tear Jar
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#338 - 2014-12-06 14:59:47 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Beledia Ilphukiir wrote:
I don't think people have so much problem with that. It's a clear 2 vs 1 situation then, which takes some of the sting out of losing and most the glory out of winning. It also means there are no hidden factors influencing the fight which is a big positive on its own, affecting factors are recorded in the killmail and all involved risked their ships on the field. It's by miles a better situation than having to guess what actually affected the fight and the multi account user being able to hide that affect.


Disagree with this point. Deception and asymmetric warfare are both hallmarks of EVE. This is not the game where deciphering your opponent's capabilities should be trivial or obvious.


Decyphering your opponents abilities beforehand should not, but being able to figure out what they did afterwards is good.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#339 - 2014-12-06 15:13:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
Tear Jar wrote:
Links can massive increase your sensor strength and lock range.
It's not massive, as you make it out to be. It's closer to like 30% increased sensor strength, which really doesn't matter much if someone puts a rack of jams on you. I think people need to consider that most of the people who have links, have done a fair bit of PvP as well. When you fly around in your Atron and you get picked off by a Garmur, the links are irrelevant. You would have most likely died either way, with or without links.

Sir Constantin wrote:
Off grid boost needs to be removed and replaced with something like a AoE of 20KM or something else, i don't know.
By any measurement, 20km is way too small. That means that someone who uncloaks on the opposite side of the gate, would be practically out of boost range. Same for a fight taking place on the opposite side of a POS or what not. It would have to be the effective grid, or maybe 250-300km.

Sir Constantin wrote:
Forcing solo pvp'ers to have boosting alts to be able to kill someone in a similar fit is bad.
Except that the guy you're fighting isn't a solo PvPer. You're fighting 2 accounts and 2 characters. Of course the person with 2 accounts and 2 characters is going to have an advantage.

You make it out like every single Crow pilot is of exact skill and if they had a fight, they would draw each time, or just marginally survive. The only reason pilot A wins is because he's got boosts. That's your argument. Is it entirely inconceivable that one of the pilots is just better and would have probably won with or without boosts? Like people attribute losses to links, but you don't know that. The percentage of fights would have turned out differently, is not something we know. I'm willing to bet it's probably a very, very small number though.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2014-12-06 15:45:02 UTC
Tear Jar wrote:
Decyphering your opponents abilities beforehand should not, but being able to figure out what they did afterwards is good.



Zappity wrote:
1. Combat links give a weapons timer.
2. Activating links increase signature for combat probes.

That would be a reasonable interim measure until they go on grid. Weapons timer would get rid of the gate huggers and station limpets. Sig increase should be lowered just a bit so you don't need a perfect scanner (with implants) to find them.

This would add a reasonable amount of risk for OGB without breaking any current game play.


A good addition to Zappity's list in response to what Tear Jar said would be:

3. Include links on kill report.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.