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Strong Empire gameplay, strong Empire lore, strong Empires
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Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-11-30 17:47:10 UTC
I debated on whether to put this in Features & Ideas, General Discussion or here, and eventually settled on here.

So persuant to a discussion between many roleplayers and empire citizens in an out-of-character channel, we have the distinct feeling that CCP is attempting to focus all its efforts in pushing players out to nullsec and W-space because of a mistaken perception that these places are where all the "player-driven gameplay" occurs. We've seen announcements in lore that "the empires are losing their grasp" and indications that less effort is going to be put into gameplay that occurs in empire space as opposed to gameplay in lawless regions (the poor state of FW at the current time attests to this). We haven't seen any live events for a long time and we've had to essentially beg for tidbits of lore here and there, up to and including having to beg CCP to give us an update on the Federation's single most important national event.

This is not what we want.

We do not want the Empires to "lose their grasp." If anything, we want the opposite - we want strong, competent, capable empires willing and able to compete with capsuleers who won't work for them. The factions and the lore behind them are just as important to EVE as the actions of players. Anything that weakens them weakens the game.

We want more live events. We want the ability to interact with the empires and work for or against them in a way that is dynamic and not neccessarily linked to the factional warfare system. We liked the ability to talk and interact with official representatives of the factions.

We want CCP to spend just as much time on the improvement and iteration of features in empire space as they do on features in nullsec and W-space. We want CCP to acknowledge that people who live in empire space are not second-class citizens - we want CCP to acknowledge that players and gameplay in empire space are just as important as players and gameplay in nullsec space.

EVE's story and lore is a big part of the game's appeal - we don't want CCP to abandon it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-11-30 17:49:14 UTC
We need strong Empire!
Lets start invasion into Villore! And bomb Gallente Prime to avenge for operation Highlander!

The Federation must be... umm... nibbled :P

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#3 - 2014-11-30 17:51:34 UTC
Since the Midular/Coleile storyline, we've gotten... nothing.

A whole bunch of wormspace stuff. Some null stuff. Some new ships stuff. A book. A box set. A christmas celebration with gifts every day, and all of it is awesome.

But, I feel like CCP has basically abandoned those of us who are quite happy to align, in game, with the Empires, the militias.

In short... +1

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#4 - 2014-11-30 18:00:15 UTC
I am almost 100% a lowsec player. Despite this, I agree with Andy about 95%. I don't mind wormhole and nullsec content, but please don't release that at the expense of high/low Empire space content.

And for god's sake, give us some actual lore please.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Halcyon Ember
Repracor Industries
#5 - 2014-11-30 18:01:46 UTC
The problem is that currently the game is focused on pushing people out of high sec by slowly but surely stripping away what small rewards can be gleaned there. This further means a lack of focus on empire stuff because empire space is high sec and they don't want you making money there. So the only interactions they're interested in promoting is the null sec ones.
If players could actually do things for their chosen factions in the same manner as they do for player owned corps there might be a little less reason to push us all out and we might all have more high sec content.

Queen of Chocolate
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#6 - 2014-11-30 18:06:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
+1

On the EVE main website, "Loyalist" is listed as a career option for aspiring players. I, for one, hope that this will not be forgotten as the story moves forwards. Have the capsuleers be an emerging power, certainly, but don't neglect having the empires 'strike back' as a result. The Prophecy trailer was, I think, a good example of this: capsuleers do something big, Empire gets mad and hits back like a truck, actually winning the battle until the capsuleers wiped out both fleets with the gate activation.

There are many directions such a thing could go. For FW, it could change from empires vs empires to empires vs pirates, to represent the empires uniting against the capsuleer threat (as they did with Nation a century prior). The empires could also choose to withdraw from CONCORD, or perhaps force a reform of it back into the weaker international meeting ground it used to be, resulting in the replacing of CONCORD fleets with empire-specific ones. This has little mechanical alteration, but would serve to visibly demonstrate that the empires, perhaps fearful of increased capsuleer power, are choosing to exert more personal attention in the defense of their own territories. Perhaps Incursions that spawn in null territories could be randomized empire fleets, instead of or on a rotating cycle with Sansha ones. This would, again, represent that the empires are taking a stand.

All that being said, I don't think more live events are strictly necessary. I understand that the devs have limited manpower in this regard. What I think vastly more preferable, and easier for the team to manage, is simply more world news about empire events, just more fluff and life from the empires. We were starting to get some of that last year and it was amazing, but sadly it dropped off. Also, I for one think events like the research race are good, as they offer player input in a balanced way that doesn't necessitate huge, complicated live events.

I'd like to end this post by saying that a lot of the changes that have been made in the last few months have been amazing, and it looks like there are many more to come. The devs are doing wonderful work. Some of us are just hoping that the empires won't be forgotten as EVE moves forward, as for some of us the empires and the lore of the universe are the reason we play.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-11-30 18:21:22 UTC
Adding about FW vs pirates:

There are NPC nullsec regions, owned by pirates. Empires could start invasion there and with same mechanics as FW: empire vs pirate, but in nullsec, and for control of the said nullsec region.

For example, State vs Federation in lowsec, State vs Gurista in nullsec (Venal).

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Anslo
Scope Works
#8 - 2014-11-30 19:08:04 UTC
Well everyone else is posting in here so +1

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#9 - 2014-11-30 19:12:58 UTC
I agree with above, a strong empire lore along with a strong player lore (nullsec) will benefit the game in the long run, as everyone has different motivations.

The recent effort CCP put in the lore, like the research race and letting the outcome decide the release of the tech 3 destroyers is a great move in that direction.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Kueyen
Angharradh's Aegis
#10 - 2014-12-01 12:01:42 UTC
+1

I recall some other poster's ideas to allow industrialists to directly support the empire factions (by providing them with raw resources and/or finished products); Same for pirate factions.

Furthermore, if the nullsec blocks have nothing to fear from the empire factions (and they don't currently, because the empire factions haven't changed their territorial claims in over a decade), then the empire factions shouldn't have anything to fear from the nullsec blocks. No one-sided threaths, no matter how cool they look in trailers. And woe the block that is the first to take on the full might of an empire faction; these have, after all, been around for hundreds if not thousands of years, vs. the upstarts on the edge of the cluster...

In summary:
* No to the continuing devaluation of Highsec space (try comparing Silicon Valley or the Ruhrgebiet with the heart of the Congo, or the Gobi desert, and see which areas are more productive...)
* No to the proxy war without Lore consequences that is Faction Warfare (it's been 5 to 6 years, and I've never heard the Lore reflect any of probably numerous occasions where one faction's militia finally virtually or completely took over their CEPWA area... only to lose it later again, of course.)

But:
* Yes to more Lore (doing great lately! keep it coming!)
* Yes to more (and better, but not necessarely bigger) live events
* Yes to more (constructive!) interaction between pro-empire-faction players and those factions (and making those more visible so that others may learn of these deeds).

Until all are free...
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#11 - 2014-12-01 16:14:49 UTC
+1

I agree with what has been said in the thread.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#12 - 2014-12-03 10:56:03 UTC
I think CCP has a misguided notion that highsec isn't sandboxy enough so is trying to steer players out to areas they believe does fit that description. That isn't helped when a lot of nullbears (especially on the CSM) seem to take issue with any and all players who don't like to play the game the same way THEY do that CCP listens to.

I would definitely like to see players more able to actually interact with the lore, but that goes beyond JUST live events. A reduction in the frequency of news droughts would be nice, but what would be really great is more interactivity with NPCs aside from mission givers, and with a lot of RPers claiming loyalty, it would be great if it were more than just words on a page. I'd love to be able to declare loyalty in game somehow and have it matter in game.
Tavin Aikisen
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#13 - 2014-12-03 11:40:53 UTC
It's hard to really say anything that hasn't already been said here.

But I agree completely. The whole appealing aspect of the game was that people were able to thrive in high-sec. Sure not all of the resources or opportunities are there, and that's fine. But null-sec and low sec doesn't need to be the ultimate objective of every player.

I don't expect to see players influencing NPC faction politics, although it'd be great if the could, but we should still see them populating their space. :)

"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."

-Cold Wind
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2014-12-03 12:25:59 UTC
+1 (What am I plusing here?)

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2014-12-03 13:57:00 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
+1 (What am I plusing here?)


To hopefully give the playerbase additional options to support the empires rather than the limited nature of the live events.


"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2014-12-04 19:06:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Vulxanis Viceroy
It would be nice to have the bans lifted from CCP actors being in player channels.

I'd love to have the Kor-Azor heir visit Vulxanis (who is distantly related to him) at his holdings. So that Vulxanis can personally reaffirm his loyalty, and hopefully, be able to please him with his efforts regarding his holdings.

I would also like to have many simultaneous live events that would spread people out. No real monetary incentive. I'd like to actually participate WITHOUT blobs.

Plus if we could have a new empire come into play, not a pirate faction but a NEW EMPIRE, that would be awesome if players got called on to fight this empire at the beginning. Loyalty is a good enough reason to want to go for roleplayers.

No monetary incentive necessary.

Also, +1!

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

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Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#17 - 2014-12-04 19:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:
It would be nice to have the bans lifted from CCP actors being in player channels.

I'd love to have the Kor-Azor heir visit Vulxanis (who is distantly related to him) at his holdings. So that Vulxanis can personally reaffirm his loyalty, and hopefully, be able to please him with his efforts regarding his holdings.


No offense, Vulx, but this is the kind of thing that CCP should not be doing.

CCP actors shouldn't be used for just furthering a single individual player's personal storyline. Their time is limited and they have a lot more important things to be doing.

Actors should be there to provide an official, factional representation at large, public events that players have taken the time and effort to organize for other players, or to answer, on a limited level, player-driven efforts to move EVE's overall story along. Their time should be spent doing things that benefit the game and the playerbase as a whole, not individuals. Even if actors were about, you should absolutely not have the attention of one unless you're hosting a big, open event that multiple players will have access to and will benefit from.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#18 - 2014-12-04 19:55:06 UTC
Some in game way to actually 'earn' holdings rather than simply inventing them. Or Capsuleer version of holdings. That would however be a good way to go forward to support the Empires. It's not 'your' Sov, it's Amarr Sov (or whoever), but you are allowed to officially live there. Rather than simply having a pile of junk in the station and flying there.

That sort of thing would go towards supporting the Empires in game.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#19 - 2014-12-04 20:06:36 UTC
That would definitely be pretty cool, Nevyn. Some kind of extension of existing PI tech, probably. I already see putting a PI colony down on a planet to be the bare minimum someone should do to be able to say that they own a holding on that planet.
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#20 - 2014-12-05 00:24:18 UTC
That's something I would really like to see.

Let Amarr players somehow acquire holds, let Caldari players actually get stock in corporations, let Gallente players have a vote, and have that come up every once and a while in a meaningful way. Beyond that, having backstory that were somehow more real would also be good; there are plenty of players who claim they are from so an so or loyal to a specific group, and it doesn't have much effect at all either.

Now that Bloodlines don't actually have any stats associated with them, but are just words on the character sheet, I would like to see more bloodlines added so, for instance, we can have Manarr Gallente players and Minmatar from all of the tribes, not just 3 of them (and, to be honest, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to let us pick any of the capsuleer schools to represent the fact there ARE immigrants and expatriots in each of the empires)
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