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Update regarding Multiboxing and input automation

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Nolak Ataru
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#4041 - 2015-04-11 21:18:54 UTC
He was comparing 1 fleet of 1 player with 10 ships to 1 fleet of 10 players with 10 ships total. This was something I covered in the ISBoxer essay to some extent and I disproved it there.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#4042 - 2015-04-11 23:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Trakow
Nolak Ataru wrote:
He was comparing 1 fleet of 1 player with 10 ships to 1 fleet of 10 players with 10 ships total. This was something I covered in the ISBoxer essay to some extent and I disproved it there.


That IS what we're all talking about! Helenetor said 1 player with 10 accounts vs 10 players with 10 accounts(total), not 10 accounts each, only one account each. So 10 accounts on either side of the fight. Seems you and Jason Xado are the only ones confused about what we're talking about.

As for your "essay" (Not sure which university would consider that an essay...) , you don't disprove anything. Besides, CCP's stance is likely 1 player vs 1 player. So how is it fair when 2 players fight, but one of the players is able to control 10+ ships simultaneously? If CCP wanted that ability, then it would have been integrated into the game, and it is not. That's not how the game is supposed to be played. Again, if you want to control multiple accounts, do it manually by either alt-tabbing or using multiple boxes, which by the way, you've said yourself is just as efficient as using ISBoxer, so then stop using ISBoxer if it's the same as doing it manually...

Also

Nolak Ataru wrote:
We already went over this ten times before, but I shall do it again:
Round Robin Broadcasting is the act of sending one command to one client for one click, and for each subsequent click, the command is sent to a different client. It was not banned by CCP as it only sends one action per click.
It is entirely possible to configure ISBoxer to change VideoFX sources once a player clicks on one. The route a command takes for a player using ISBoxer is thus:
OS>ISBoxer>EVE
Such that it can seem like a player is Round-Robin broadcasting when he indeed is not.


I've bolded and underlined the part where you've even stated and admitted the EULA violation by changing how the input is received to the Eve client. The commands are coming from third-party software. They are being intercepted between the OS and the client, where it is redirected to different clients.

And:

Nolak Ataru wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:

We already went over this ten times before, but I shall do it again:


No one is listening to your excuses and your wild attempts at deflection.
Proof or stfu.

Nobody's listening to your moving goalposts, fallacies, slander, and other lies.
I believe the function in ISBoxer is located in the KeyMaps section. In pseudocode:
OnClick
Send Action to client 1
Switch VideoFX Box1 to Box2

Now, where is your proof that RoundRobin was banned by CCP?


See CCP Random's comments here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE starting around 10:45 is where your proof is. Seems that my correspondence some time ago which got removed wasn't "proof" enough for you. Maybe now you can drop it, if you have any kind of maturity about it.

EDIT: And also at 13:35 he talks of using any third party software to activate modules, which I'm sure RR and VFX falls under as well, since you're not directly interacting with the client to activate the modules, you're interacting with VFX/ISBoxer, which in turn is activating modules.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#4043 - 2015-04-11 23:20:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:

We already went over this ten times before, but I shall do it again:


No one is listening to your excuses and your wild attempts at deflection.

Proof or stfu.

LOL.. so narrow minded so totally fixated on something ONLY CCP can provide but are unwilling to do.
CCP security team can't even get it together enough to publish accurate information relating to changes to the game. How do you expect players to be able to do it?

Kaaruos, you are still asking for proof from and individual of something you can't disprove, with proof.
Your only proof is your belief everyone tells lies but you.



- - - - - - - -
To all the trolls saying - See you admitted ISBoxer can be used to violate the EULA so those using it should be banned.

I say - YES DO IT - Ban every player using ISBoxer BUT you also need to ban EVERY player using any 3rd party software that "can be used" to violate the EULA, as ISBoxers overlay it seems is now not allowed, neither should any other program which provides overlays be allowed. After all, they "can" all be used to breach the EULA, whether they are by an individual should not be relevant, if it breaches the EULA, BAN IT.
Any program that enhances or modifies game play, EveMon, EFT, EveHq even EveOffline, all in a way enhance an individuals game play over someone who does not use them - Ban them all. (kill eve once and for all)

I so love when players advocate to destroy the game play of others, while at the same time risking their own game play style.
Is it any wonder Eve is in the current state it is.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#4044 - 2015-04-11 23:55:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Trakow wrote:


See CCP Random's comments here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE starting around 10:45 is where your proof is. Seems that my correspondence some time ago which got removed wasn't "proof" enough for you. Maybe now you can drop it, if you have any kind of maturity about it.

EDIT: And also at 13:35 he talks of using any third party software to activate modules, which I'm sure RR and VFX falls under as well, since you're not directly interacting with the client to activate the modules, you're interacting with VFX/ISBoxer, which in turn is activating modules.

Interesting, so in fact any overlay used in Eve can get you banned.
Also interesting is that CCP is choosing to police this on a very selective basis.

Funny but you don't need VFX to use RR, I've used RR for years but never with anything other than Windows. Yet I can still be banned for using RR, at the discretion of CCP (because my server tics exceed what they believe is "normal").

Round Robin in no way breaches CCP's EULA as long as it is not used in conjunction with 3rd party software.
VFX, does not breach the EULA, as long as it is not used to enhance game play.
That is something that is very subjective. What is considered "enhancing"?
I have a friend who uses VFX on his (pretty basic spec'd) laptop to allow him to move his titan around more safely, he can see what is happening with cynos and the titan without having to alt tab. His laptop would have trouble running more than 1 client without VFX. Should he be banned? Should he be forced to spend money he may not have so he can do it without the need for VFX?

CCP haven't changed the EULA. What they have changed is how CCP employees interpret it.
Leaving the door wide open to ban selectively, anyone (with multiple accounts) they choose to.

CCP really need to stop promoting (and making income from) multiboxing until such time as they have clear policies (written into the EULA) on multiboxing.


EDIT; According to the EULA, the OS could be considered 3rd party software as it, combined with shortcuts provided by the eve interface, allows a player to input commands as fast as his or her fingers can press keys.. Not a very clear definition.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Nolak Ataru
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#4045 - 2015-04-12 00:27:58 UTC
Trakow wrote:
That IS what we're all talking about! Helenetor said 1 player with 10 accounts vs 10 players with 10 accounts(total), not 10 accounts each, only one account each. So 10 accounts on either side of the fight. Seems you and Jason Xado are the only ones confused about what we're talking about.
As for your "essay" (Not sure which university would consider that an essay...) , you don't disprove anything. Besides, CCP's stance is likely 1 player vs 1 player. So how is it fair when 2 players fight, but one of the players is able to control 10+ ships simultaneously? If CCP wanted that ability, then it would have been integrated into the game, and it is not. That's not how the game is supposed to be played. Again, if you want to control multiple accounts, do it manually by either alt-tabbing or using multiple boxes, which by the way, you've said yourself is just as efficient as using ISBoxer, so then stop using ISBoxer if it's the same as doing it manually...


1) The multiboxer must pay for each account, plan it's skills, pay for it's fit, and risks it every time he undocks.
2) Any competent player will kill the ISBoxer's fleet as the ISBoxer's only real option for PVP is "Approach n Pray". Slingshots, EWAR, Nos, Neuts, and manual piloting can and will cause havoc for an ISBoxer.
3) Here's what you're basically saying. Person A and Person B are fighting in a 1v1 Active Rokhs, no rules, last man standing wins. Person A brings out a deadspace X-L Booster, or mag stabs, or whatever. You're saying that Person A somehow cheated by putting more ISK on the poker table than the next guy. We're somehow at fault for putting more ISK on the poker table.
4) I said that a fleet of 10 players with 1 account each is just as efficient as a 10-boxer, even pre-ban.

Quote:
Nolak Ataru wrote:
We already went over this ten times before, but I shall do it again:
Round Robin Broadcasting is the act of sending one command to one client for one click, and for each subsequent click, the command is sent to a different client. It was not banned by CCP as it only sends one action per click.
It is entirely possible to configure ISBoxer to change VideoFX sources once a player clicks on one. The route a command takes for a player using ISBoxer is thus:
OS>ISBoxer>EVE
Such that it can seem like a player is Round-Robin broadcasting when he indeed is not.

I've bolded and underlined the part where you've even stated and admitted the EULA violation by changing how the input is received to the Eve client. The commands are coming from third-party software. They are being intercepted between the OS and the client, where it is redirected to different clients.


So ban TS3 and Steam and Mumble overlay, as that turns the player's input to "OS>Program>EVE". Ban extra desktops as that turns the player's inputs to "OS>DesktopProgram>EVE". Ban Fraps and other similar software because..... need I go on?
Hell, even EVE-O Preview does nearly the same thing.

Quote:
See CCP Random's comments here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE starting around 10:45 is where your proof is. Seems that my correspondence some time ago which got removed wasn't "proof" enough for you. Maybe now you can drop it, if you have any kind of maturity about it.
EDIT: And also at 13:35 he talks of using any third party software to activate modules, which I'm sure RR and VFX falls under as well, since you're not directly interacting with the client to activate the modules, you're interacting with VFX/ISBoxer, which in turn is activating modules.

At 13:35 he was talking about bots, and you and everyone else in this thread know it no matter how many times you attempt to twist it. ISBoxer/VFX is sending commands to the client that you dictate to ISBoxer to begin with. They're sending keystroke, nothing more.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#4046 - 2015-04-12 01:57:04 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Trakow wrote:


See CCP Random's comments here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE starting around 10:45 is where your proof is. Seems that my correspondence some time ago which got removed wasn't "proof" enough for you. Maybe now you can drop it, if you have any kind of maturity about it.

EDIT: And also at 13:35 he talks of using any third party software to activate modules, which I'm sure RR and VFX falls under as well, since you're not directly interacting with the client to activate the modules, you're interacting with VFX/ISBoxer, which in turn is activating modules.

Interesting, so in fact any overlay used in Eve can get you banned.
Also interesting is that CCP is choosing to police this on a very selective basis.

Funny but you don't need VFX to use RR, I've used RR for years but never with anything other than Windows. Yet I can still be banned for using RR, at the discretion of CCP (because my server tics exceed what they believe is "normal").

Round Robin in no way breaches CCP's EULA as long as it is not used in conjunction with 3rd party software.
VFX, does not breach the EULA, as long as it is not used to enhance game play.
That is something that is very subjective. What is considered "enhancing"?
I have a friend who uses VFX on his (pretty basic spec'd) laptop to allow him to move his titan around more safely, he can see what is happening with cynos and the titan without having to alt tab. His laptop would have trouble running more than 1 client without VFX. Should he be banned? Should he be forced to spend money he may not have so he can do it without the need for VFX?

CCP haven't changed the EULA. What they have changed is how CCP employees interpret it.
Leaving the door wide open to ban selectively, anyone (with multiple accounts) they choose to.

CCP really need to stop promoting (and making income from) multiboxing until such time as they have clear policies (written into the EULA) on multiboxing.


EDIT; According to the EULA, the OS could be considered 3rd party software as it, combined with shortcuts provided by the eve interface, allows a player to input commands as fast as his or her fingers can press keys.. Not a very clear definition.


I never said RR and VFX were related or dependent on eachother, they are separate violations. And yes, using Round Robin in ISBoxer is in violation, I don't know how that's not clear to you. As for someone using VFX to enhance a slow laptop's performance, yes, it's still a violation regardless of why it's being used. Can I modify Eve's code to make it run on a really old computer? No. The fact that I'm modifying it so that I can play on old hardware doesn't negate the fact that I would violate the EULAs/policies.

You're right, they haven't changed the EULA's, they're just now enforcing things. And like I've said before, if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to play Eve. Play something else.
Trakow
Beta Switch
#4047 - 2015-04-12 02:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Trakow
Nolak Ataru wrote:
1) The multiboxer must pay for each account, plan it's skills, pay for it's fit, and risks it every time he undocks.
2) Any competent player will kill the ISBoxer's fleet as the ISBoxer's only real option for PVP is "Approach n Pray". Slingshots, EWAR, Nos, Neuts, and manual piloting can and will cause havoc for an ISBoxer.
3) Here's what you're basically saying. Person A and Person B are fighting in a 1v1 Active Rokhs, no rules, last man standing wins. Person A brings out a deadspace X-L Booster, or mag stabs, or whatever. You're saying that Person A somehow cheated by putting more ISK on the poker table than the next guy. We're somehow at fault for putting more ISK on the poker table.
4) I said that a fleet of 10 players with 1 account each is just as efficient as a 10-boxer, even pre-ban.


1) So? That's the player's choice, like anyone else...
2) And what's the difference? All those things will cause havoc on any player, even with one account.
3) No, person A did not cheat. They're using in-game items and features created by CCP. There's nothing external to Eve here.
4) Ok, so then what's the big deal with not being able to use ISBoxer then? Do it manually.

Nolak Ataru wrote:
So ban TS3 and Steam and Mumble overlay, as that turns the player's input to "OS>Program>EVE". Ban extra desktops as that turns the player's inputs to "OS>DesktopProgram>EVE". Ban Fraps and other similar software because..... need I go on?
Hell, even EVE-O Preview does nearly the same thing.


I'm fine with banning TS3 and those other things. The only thing I've ever used is TS3 because the corp uses it, but like I posted before, it's not being enforced currently. Might be in the future, but again, that's fine with me and I'll stop using it. Eve Voice is provided by CCP anyways. I have no issues playing a game the way it's supposed to be played, especially when everyone else is doing the same.

Nolak Ataru wrote:

At 13:35 he was talking about bots, and you and everyone else in this thread know it no matter how many times you attempt to twist it. ISBoxer/VFX is sending commands to the client that you dictate to ISBoxer to begin with. They're sending keystroke, nothing more.


Yes, and sending keystrokes is one of the problems. Besides, it doesn't matter what I and everyone else in this thread know or thinks, it's what CCP says and does that matters, and so far, I have no complaints.

I'm also at the point of realizing now that I think you're just trolling and you simply enjoy the argument, and refuse to believe that you were ever in violation. I came across this interesting blog post by The Nosy Gamer that even specifically names you

Quote:
To which, Nolak Ataru (aka bugme143) added:

TL;DR: CCP's not following their own EULA, banning people for 2+ commands in three seconds even without ISBoxer installed.

(SNIP)

The problem is that CCP did not enforce the EULA on this matter for years and only openly declared the use of ISBoxer a EULA violation in April 2013. Worse, users like Nolak refused to believe that the practice ever violated the EULA.


Source : http://nosygamer.blogspot.ca/2015/01/input-broadcasting-bans-have-begun.html

So I really think at this point that debating with you is a waste of time because it all just keeps going in circles... Or for some reason, you just enjoy flying easily with 10+ ships because you're afraid of flying solo or manually boxing.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#4048 - 2015-04-12 02:59:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Trakow wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Trakow wrote:


See CCP Random's comments here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBD7CL9oQqE starting around 10:45 is where your proof is. Seems that my correspondence some time ago which got removed wasn't "proof" enough for you. Maybe now you can drop it, if you have any kind of maturity about it.

EDIT: And also at 13:35 he talks of using any third party software to activate modules, which I'm sure RR and VFX falls under as well, since you're not directly interacting with the client to activate the modules, you're interacting with VFX/ISBoxer, which in turn is activating modules.

Interesting, so in fact any overlay used in Eve can get you banned.
Also interesting is that CCP is choosing to police this on a very selective basis.

Funny but you don't need VFX to use RR, I've used RR for years but never with anything other than Windows. Yet I can still be banned for using RR, at the discretion of CCP (because my server tics exceed what they believe is "normal").

Round Robin in no way breaches CCP's EULA as long as it is not used in conjunction with 3rd party software.
VFX, does not breach the EULA, as long as it is not used to enhance game play.
That is something that is very subjective. What is considered "enhancing"?
I have a friend who uses VFX on his (pretty basic spec'd) laptop to allow him to move his titan around more safely, he can see what is happening with cynos and the titan without having to alt tab. His laptop would have trouble running more than 1 client without VFX. Should he be banned? Should he be forced to spend money he may not have so he can do it without the need for VFX?

CCP haven't changed the EULA. What they have changed is how CCP employees interpret it.
Leaving the door wide open to ban selectively, anyone (with multiple accounts) they choose to.

CCP really need to stop promoting (and making income from) multiboxing until such time as they have clear policies (written into the EULA) on multiboxing.


EDIT; According to the EULA, the OS could be considered 3rd party software as it, combined with shortcuts provided by the eve interface, allows a player to input commands as fast as his or her fingers can press keys.. Not a very clear definition.


I never said RR and VFX were related or dependent on eachother, they are separate violations. And yes, using Round Robin in ISBoxer is in violation, I don't know how that's not clear to you. As for someone using VFX to enhance a slow laptop's performance, yes, it's still a violation regardless of why it's being used. Can I modify Eve's code to make it run on a really old computer? No. The fact that I'm modifying it so that I can play on old hardware doesn't negate the fact that I would violate the EULAs/policies.

You're right, they haven't changed the EULA's, they're just now enforcing things. And like I've said before, if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to play Eve. Play something else.

It isn't that they are now enforcing certain parts of the EULA. The issue is "how" they are enforcing it.
As a proponent of 1 .exe per IP you would not understand. Many find the challenge of multi boxing more interesting and engaging than just using 1 character at a time.

CCP as far as I know have not banned use of VFX, unless it is used in conjunction with tools CCP provide. That is not to say they won't at some time - And that is the whole issue.

CCP have moved the line of "what we will turn a blind eye to" but not made clear where that line is.

As for "if you don't like it leave" - Typical troll response. If everyone who didn't agree with or like certain aspects of Eve left the game. There would be so few left, CCP would be forced to close up shop. Eve is not perfect for everyone, never will be but the "don't like it leave" attitude is just childish and nonsense.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Nolak Ataru
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#4049 - 2015-04-12 14:05:58 UTC
Trakow wrote:
1) So? That's the player's choice, like anyone else...
2) And what's the difference? All those things will cause havoc on any player, even with one account.
3) No, person A did not cheat. They're using in-game items and features created by CCP. There's nothing external to Eve here.
4) Ok, so then what's the big deal with not being able to use ISBoxer then? Do it manually.

1) Because you're punishing players who have multiple accounts.
2) Yes, but it's even MORE effective against an ISBoxer. I outlined this to demonstrate that ISBoxer is not "one button win" despite all the whining occurring here.
3) You missed the point completely.
4) Again, missed the point.

Quote:
I'm fine with banning TS3 and those other things. The only thing I've ever used is TS3 because the corp uses it, but like I posted before, it's not being enforced currently. Might be in the future, but again, that's fine with me and I'll stop using it. Eve Voice is provided by CCP anyways. I have no issues playing a game the way it's supposed to be played, especially when everyone else is doing the same.

Alright, now stop using PYFA, EFT, and Fuzzworks, as those violate 6A3.

Quote:
Yes, and sending keystrokes is one of the problems. Besides, it doesn't matter what I and everyone else in this thread know or thinks, it's what CCP says and does that matters, and so far, I have no complaints.
I'm also at the point of realizing now that I think you're just trolling and you simply enjoy the argument, and refuse to believe that you were ever in violation. I came across this interesting blog post by The Nosy Gamer that even specifically names you

Quote:
-snip-

Source : http://nosygamer.blogspot.ca/2015/01/input-broadcasting-bans-have-begun.html
So I really think at this point that debating with you is a waste of time because it all just keeps going in circles... Or for some reason, you just enjoy flying easily with 10+ ships because you're afraid of flying solo or manually boxing.


I would like to first say "thank you" for not calling the Nosy Gamer a reputable news source, as it practices little to no actual journalistic practices. I was never contacted by them to explain why I said what I said, and I believe I had yet to read anything solid from them in the past year or so that isn't lip service to CCP or an attempt to grab clicks.
Secondly, explain in 3000 words or less how RoundRobin either breaks the EULA, or is bad for the game. I've personally seen more people quit because of alliances such as CODE and Space Warriors than an ISBoxer, but that may be because I'm both an ISBoxer and have friends in alliances like Space Warriors.
It is true, that I'm enjoying the argument, but that is due to the following facts:
1) Nobody has yet to give me or any other ISBoxer a solid reason why ISBoxer or it's functionalities should be banned or limited in any way.
2) Nobody has done the above without turning into a screeching monkey, flinging obscenities, fallacies, half-truths, insults, and lies at anything that moves.
3) Nobody has done the above without also including programs such as Pyfa, EFT, Fuzzworks, TS3, Mumble, Overwolf, and Steam in the list of programs that should be banned.
4) We are rapidly returning to the pre-Empyrian Age era where CCP devs ignore any criticism of a patch brought up by the players, and I am of the opinion that ISBoxer is simply the tip of the iceberg.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#4050 - 2015-04-12 21:42:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
This is frightening.

Instead of letting it go and finding peace,
you pointlessly argue as if it changed anything.

You do not seem to realise that it won't,
or you take things way too personal.

Either way is it unavoidable to conclude that you
are far too emotionally invested and have lost sense for what matters.

RealityCheck.

Your argueing leads nowhere.
Trying to make people admit that you are right leads nowhere.
Trying to make people explain it to you leads nowhere.

There is absolutely no chance it will change.

Someone is considered insane when he keeps repeating the same thing ...
... over and over again ...
... expecting that the result will change.

That's what's happening here.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Charadrass
Angry Germans
#4051 - 2015-04-13 09:02:25 UTC
this is my last posting here.

i decided to stop wasting my time writing here and trying to get ccp moved to make a clear statement.
sad to see how a game comes to an end by total ignorance of the publisher / programmer.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#4052 - 2015-04-13 11:41:53 UTC
Charadrass wrote:
this is my last posting here.

i decided to stop wasting my time writing here and trying to get ccp moved to make a clear statement.
sad to see how a game comes to an end by total ignorance of the publisher / programmer.

Good! But not only is the statement clear enough ...
... DON'T DO IT! ...
... you have found the light and can now live a better life!

Grats! :)
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#4053 - 2015-04-13 12:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jason Xado
Charadrass wrote:
this is my last posting here.

i decided to stop wasting my time writing here and trying to get ccp moved to make a clear statement.
sad to see how a game comes to an end by total ignorance of the publisher / programmer.


I agree I am done as well.

I wasn't asking for it to change I was just asking for CCP to have the common courtesy to explain why the change occurred. No one has answered that question, all they say is that nothing has changed and it is simply against the rules. Well that simply isn't true. Something has changed and after spending thousands of dollars on this game playing in my own little sandbox for years without a peep that I was doing anything wrong, CCP suddenly decides that how I play the game is cheating and doesn't even say why.

Well I'm done trying to get a simple answer on why, as obviously CCP doesn't want anyone to know for some reason or other. Hay it's their call if they want to be rude to customers, it's a free world.

Biomass in 10 seconds...

Fly safe and don't forget to have fun :-)
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#4054 - 2015-04-13 12:34:07 UTC
*kinks* (:


Have a good one you two! :)
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Nolak Ataru
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#4055 - 2015-04-13 12:34:50 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
This is frightening.
Instead of letting it go and finding peace,
you pointlessly argue as if it changed anything.
You do not seem to realise that it won't,
or you take things way too personal.
Either way is it unavoidable to conclude that you
are far too emotionally invested and have lost sense for what matters.
Reality Check.
Your arguing leads nowhere.
Trying to make people admit that you are right leads nowhere.
Trying to make people explain it to you leads nowhere.
There is absolutely no chance it will change.
Someone is considered insane when he keeps repeating the same thing ...
... over and over again ...
... expecting that the result will change.
That's what's happening here.


Interesting how you attack the person instead of the idea, but I shall play your little game.
Why is it whenever another issue reaches 200 pages, people say "Oh that's good, they're discussing the issue completely and letting all the voices be heard", while here it's "pointless"? Why are we so much different from other players when it comes to issues that hit home? The WH mass spawn thread hit 100 pages after pruning. Entosis is 17 pages for thread #2 and chugging along nicely.
Your quote is not the medical nor criminal definition of insanity, nor is it correct. The original quote is "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results", not "mistake". There is a very clear difference between the two. I would like to counter your quote by saying "Mental illness is in the eye of the beholder". Some, myself included, may consider market trading to be dull, boring, and mindless. The "leveling my raven" crowd are astonished whenever their 25b raven gets ganked in Niarja or Osmon, always spouting obscenities regarding the aggressor's mental well-being, and their general attitude.
You say it won't change. I say, Why not? I was taught growing up to defend what I believe in. I came from a town that is very big on debates and similar competitions. I worked with one of the "coaches", for lack of a better term, and he told me that if I believe in something strongly enough, I should defend it. Well, I am. If that is seen as being a bad thing; if defending what someone's actions or beliefs is now considered a crime where you come from, then I really don't want to live where you are.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#4056 - 2015-04-13 12:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
I am not going to read your drivel.
How about you have some standards and use paragraphs first.

Then how about understanding that i am not attacking anyone,
but it's you silly interpreting it as such.

This wall of text shows you are mad and proves me right.

There is no need for talk and discussion and I am glad I made two people,
who obviously are smarter than this, to see the light and leave.

Learn to understand. This thread is not for feedback.
It's for people who can't cope with it and keeps them busy.

Believing tha any talk about this will change this is nuts
and believing that every case is equal is not smart either.

Keep talking, you just waste your own time.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Lee Sin Priest
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4057 - 2015-04-13 14:46:23 UTC
Eve Solecist wrote:
I am not going to read your drivel.
How about you have some standards and use paragraphs first.

Then how about understanding that i am not attacking anyone,
but it's you silly interpreting it as such.

This wall of text shows you are mad and proves me right.

There is no need for talk and discussion and I am glad I made two people,
who obviously are smarter than this, to see the light and leave.

Learn to understand. This thread is not for feedback.
It's for people who can't cope with it and keeps them busy.

Believing tha any talk about this will change this is nuts
and believing that every case is equal is not smart either.

Keep talking, you just waste your own time.


Your sentence structure reminds me of 12 grade english poetry class

I hated those classes
ShadowandLight
Trigger Happy Capsuleers
#4058 - 2015-04-13 16:50:11 UTC
there is a new dev blog and comment section from Team Security, it was posted just to link their video from fanfest and twitter names

i asked them once again for clarification, hopefully they will respond

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=418471&find=unread

Legacy - An EVE Online Blog

Legacy of a Capsuleer Podcast

EVEServers.info - One stop API Solution for Corps/Alliances
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#4059 - 2015-04-13 18:11:33 UTC
Trakow wrote:
I'm also at the point of realizing now that I think you're just trolling and you simply enjoy the argument, and refuse to believe that you were ever in violation. I came across this interesting blog post by The Nosy Gamer that even specifically names you

Quote:
To which, Nolak Ataru (aka bugme143) added:

TL;DR: CCP's not following their own EULA, banning people for 2+ commands in three seconds even without ISBoxer installed.

(SNIP)

The problem is that CCP did not enforce the EULA on this matter for years and only openly declared the use of ISBoxer a EULA violation in April 2013. Worse, users like Nolak refused to believe that the practice ever violated the EULA.


Source : http://nosygamer.blogspot.ca/2015/01/input-broadcasting-bans-have-begun.html
The problem with this is that it's wrong. The EULA is designed to be broad and non-specific. What makes something "against the EULA" isn;t if the definitions within the EULA can be stretched to cover the activity, it's whether or not CCP class it as against the EULA. Strictly speaking any overlay software is against the EULA, as in against the wording. But CCP explicitly state that those are OK, so they aren't against the EULA, and if CCP ever change their minds it doesn't mean they were always against the EULA, it means that their enforcement has changed while the wording has not and they are now against the EULA.

ISBoxer is the same. For many years it wasn't just tolerated, it was explicitly allowed. Forum posts from CCP devs stated it, multiple support tickets also stated it as allowed as long as 1 click didn't perform multiple actions within any given client. So no, ISBoxer was not against the EULA, even if a popular blogger claims the wording might have covered it in the past.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4060 - 2015-04-13 18:15:55 UTC
But now, mutatum mutandis, it is. Let's get on with our lives.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016