CSM Campaigns

This is a tired and frequently mythbusted claim. Blowing up internet spaceships in a game about blowing up internet spaceships is not bullying.

Wait, wait, wait. 5-10 billion every 15 minutes? What? I'm going to assume you mean million, and even that is generous. Lets ignore ganker srp for a minute and look at margins on barge ganking for solo gankers.

Currently a T2 fit catalyst costs around 8 million isk. 1.5 million of that is the hull + rigs and cannot drop as blue loot. Gankers don't receive insurance so the average loss per gank in a t2 cat is around 4-4.5 million isk. This assumes of course that no one interferes with your attempts to scoop your own loot.

For yellow loot, a reasonably fit retriever might have 10m in modules on it. (I'm using pyfa numbers right now, someone can double check my math with eve central if they want). Strip miners are around 3m a piece, a meta 4 shield extender is similar. DC2 and MLU2's are 300-400 thousand a piece, so 10-11 mill isn't an unreasonable estimate. I can ignore the rigs because again those can't drop, so our average revenue per gank is about 5-5.5 million.

5.5 in yellow loot - 4.5 average loss = 1 mill per 15 minutes, or 4 mill an hour. I don't think there's a lower paying profession in the game than that, but it gets worse.

We've been calculating 1 gank per 15 minutes, but this isn't realistic. The criminal timer lasts 15 minutes, that doesn't include time spent undocking, warping to the target and ganking the target. I also doesn't include all the time spent searching for a target because there's none around when criminal timer wears off. If a ganker manages to consistently hit 3 ganks an hour, they are doing very well, so I think we can safely drop our estimate for the average income of a belt ganker that does not have srp down to 3 mill an hour.

"But Bebop!", you say, "What about all of those Ore Strip miners?"
Well my friend, those are few and far between, but this is a fair point. The real profit in ganking comes from the abnormal fits. The people who think "Yes, I will spend half a bill to get 1% better yield". Still, should the ganking profession be based around the careful miner who mitigates risk, or should it be based around the person who is offering expensive modules up on a silver platter? Also, how many hours might I have to gank to encounter this player? I personally have never hit a barge with this sort of profit on the ship.

I guess now we should look at freighter ganking. Again, I will run all numbers with t2 cats at 8m a piece, but plese keep in mind that profit margins here are even more inconsistent.

A fleet of 20 t2 catalysts costs around 160m due to the cirus industry changes (it used to be around 200m). That fleet also has to be supported by at minimum one scout (also doubling as the warp-in), one bumper, one neutral agressor, an orca pilot, a freighter pilot, and multiple neutral loot scoopers. The fleet has 26 characters working together and can output approximately 326400 damage before concord arrives assuming they are in a pre-pulled 0.5 system (I use a 24 second response time for this calculation instead of 26 because of dps loss for likelyhood of imperfect warp-ins, also, I'm calculating it at 680 dps with is perfect skills without implants due to the likelyhood of pod loss to white knights). This is enough damage to gank anything except a triple bulkheaded providence or obelisk, or some specific armor fits (usually involving slave implants).

Again, we see a loss of 4.5 mill per catalyst multiplied across 20 ships to be about 90 mill total. This of course again assumes that we somehow get all of the blue loot. Actually doing so is fairly rare on crowded gates, but fairly common in deadspace. I think we can safely say actual losses are closer to 110 or 120 million per gank.

Calculating average yellow loot is much much harder. Freighters range wildly in amount carried, but my experience would put an average somewhere around 500m in the cargohold. 1.7 bill is a fairly normal amount for a freighter loss. At 500m in hold, 50% drops (I'm ignoring courier contracts for this, but they do put a strain on consistency), giving us about 250m in loot. Subtracting the costs of the catalysts nets us 125m or so in profits distributed across 25 characters for a total of 5m/person/gank. At three ganks an hour we're still only matching level 3 mission payouts. Finally, this has assumed perfect yellow loot scooping, and no failed ganks. At any given time when we are freighter ganking we'll have 5-10 people trying to stop us. We've been using eccm for a long time now, and it is extremely effective, but we are still contending with attempted smartbombers and burst ospreys. 3 Ospreys negate approximately 4 catalysts worth of dps with extremely low risk to them, so we are constantly playing a numbers game. Currently we have the numbers to continue, but how long can we hold that?

I've actually read through all of your responses and all I see is constant whining that CODE is doing every single day:

"Wah wah, nerf the income of other parties, wah wah, we need more pilots to join pirate ranks, wah wah, nerf industrialists."

I'm sure you understand that the content you're trying to promote heavily relies on the content you're trying to downtrod ever so heavily.

If and when, you actually "fight" for rebalancing of everything done in high-sec, including non-pirate activities (industry, legal business), then we can talk.

Until such a time comes, you're just a wailing child who envies its neighbour another toy.

That's quite the imagination you have there.

Neither is throwing a ball at a kid while playing dodgeball, but if a group of you repeatedly pelt the same small kid full pelt while he's obviously not enjoying it, it kinda turns that way.

All of these calculations, and yet the reality still stands that ganking is highly profitable.

The people directly responsible for that profit are those that insist on carrying way too much in ships that are far too weak. As Bebop pointed out, suicide ganking isn't profitable against competent targets, it's the ignorant, the lazy and the greedy that end up losing their ships and providing the big payouts.

I needed a candidate to give an example of absolute worst, rock bottom, lowest of the low. The candidate, who, should he make it to CSM, would surely give people enough reasons to say that CSM is a manure pit.

You guessed correctly, I have found one. A CODE member with eve-killing intentions, there can be no greater disgrace to any community than to have one speaking.

ED: Oh dear, I have found myself agreeing with Lucas Kell. Just how obvious an issue must be for the Pinky and the Brain to have the same opinion on it.

Ripard Teg has already come and gone.

As expected from a failure of a candidate, you couldn't have been further away from truth.
I promote more ships exploding in hisec. More of your cheap ones you never worked for, and less of the expensive ones people had to work for. Making you work for your ships and not just do zero risk ganking would be fine too.

Devaluing the PVE content isn't going to miraculously fix high-sec issues. You don't fix things by nerfbatting everything YOU personally disaagree with. That you personally THINK in your OWN opinion is breaking the economy.
If anything, it'll promote more PvP pirating activities and there'll be a point where it becomes degenerative and malnutricious to new and old players alike. (The hounds outnumber the foxes)

You want less AFK miners and bot-aspiring behaviour - make mining more interesting other than staring at your mining lasers cycle for hours and hours on end while your ore holds are getting full.

I'm totally against a mini-game that takes your mind off of your surroundings (like hacking mini-game which takes half of your screen away), what I'd like more is the rebalancing of asteroids in a way, that there would no longer be so many different types of rock but less, where the most common materials would be on the outside and more valuable ones on the inside. If you left your mining lasers alone, they would be mining the outer layer, which would require no guidance. Getting to the inner layer would require you to make corrections to the angle/penetration/whatever of your lasers to get that valuable hemorphite ore out of a rock.

Also, introduce collision damage. Battleship "bumping" a frigate should result in the frigate being crippled or destroyed. Make collisions with space rocks on an equal scale. You can shave off smaller rocks, bigger ones will cause dmg. With the introduction of manual control it would give a whole new level to being chased and taking them into an asteroid belt (Wing Commander I style) or staying in the middle of rocks to try and avoid falling prey to pirates.

Size should matter. A partisan with a slingshot should not be able to kill a tanker.