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Why I go to Highsec

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La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-11-09 23:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
People go to or live in highsec for a variety of reasons for example I go to highsec because:

Someone is deserving of a suicide gank,

I forgot a skill book,

I need to transport a new recruits stuff to nullsec,

Marketeering,

Getting in as many safaris as I can on my alt before that play style gets removed,

I can make the same amount of isk I would in nullsec without the risk.

That last part is the most important part I am being forced into highsec and comparatively nullsec sucks because highsec is too good. There is no meaningful choice to this game play mechanic, if you want to make as much as you can you're in highsec. This is a game warping imbalance that is keeping EVE stagnated; for what reason, no body knows or those that do aren't speaking, I however know that "it doesn't make sense." Occupancy sov isn't going to mean anything if sov space is still garbage. Part of fixing nullsec is nerfing highsec; however that is not palatable to many people.

I'm sure in the first page you'll be able to see the tears/arguments stream in of "If you nerf highsec then I'll quit!" In preemptive answer to this objection I'm going to state: No you won't no one ever quits EVE they only take a break. I don't need to go into fine details but, that is the case.

The next terrible argument that needs to be addressed is "nerfing highsec hurts the newbies." This is demonstrably false, newbies are not capable of flying risk deficient L4s/Incursions in their completely safe officer fit ship. If anything hurts newbies its crappy NPE and the putrid miasma emanating from npc corporation channels.

What about buffing nullsec instead? The entire game is linked so a buff to nullsec is an indirect nerf to highsec. Yes its not a zero sum game, we all get that the details behind this are deeper than I expect the average GD member to grasp. The most important part is that this would involve power creep which is something to be avoided.

I have plenty of my own ideas and a plan drawn up that would rival anything James315 has written. However its lacking outside input; so GD how should highsec be nerfed?

E:

Even the CSM admits there is a problem.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5168575#post5168575

Mike Azaria wrote:

La Nariz wrote:
CSM dude when is highsec reward getting nerfed?

It isn't, too many players in other parts of the game partially finance themselves with said income. If you gutted that the ripples would go much further than you might expect.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2 - 2014-11-10 00:00:45 UTC
Let me see if I got this right.

You go to high sec to gank everyone with no repercussions on a disposable alt, but you say high sec is the safest place to be.

Interesting.

Mr Epeen Cool
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#3 - 2014-11-10 00:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
I could have sworn there was a rule against duplicate threads somewhere....

Also, realize that coming from one of the major sov holders and saying "CCP pretty pretty please buff my space so that I can has more isk" might not be the best way to convince the devs.

Edit: And as you pointed out, a buff to null is an indirect nerf to hisec, so too a nerf to hi is an indirect buff to null.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#4 - 2014-11-10 00:05:01 UTC
I'm making a collection. That's why I'm in high-sec.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-11-10 00:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
La Nariz wrote:
I can make the same amount of isk I would in nullsec without the risk.


This tells me that isk is more important to you than fun. That is the first sign you are going about eve wrong, now usually I don't tell people they are doing the sandbox wrong, but .... if your gameplay style is a chore then you are.


Furthermore, how many high sec corps have SRP funded by moon goo like all the serious corporations.....oh that's right.....zero.

So why is it, if high sec makes so much isk, that corps running real sinks like SRP and so forth live and earn outside of high sec again?
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#6 - 2014-11-10 00:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Grr, Highsec.

Play another tune dude, tired old propaganda is tired and old.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#7 - 2014-11-10 00:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
afkalt wrote:

So why is it, if high sec makes so much isk, that corps running real sinks like SRP and so forth live and earn outside of high sec again?

He's talking about individual pilot income, not alliance level income. A pilot can be in a sov alliance, partake in sov conflicts, but make his isk in hisec. Individual Iskmaking isn't tied to sovspace.

Mind you, I'm not convinced iskmaking from missions or some such is better than an upgraded -0.9 system or thereabouts, but we shouldn't conflate pilot income with alliance income.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#8 - 2014-11-10 00:18:49 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

we shouldn't conflate pilot income with alliance income.


Extremely important point here. No amount of "Grr moons!" is worth anything when discussing individual personal income.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-11-10 00:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

we shouldn't conflate pilot income with alliance income.


Extremely important point here. No amount of "Grr moons!" is worth anything when discussing individual personal income.



To a point. No one is srp'ing Mission losses.

And if you want to cut right to it, playing the market is where the money is made.

Besides on looking at the wider picture - with full SRP the need for personal wealth decreases. Such are the benefits of being in a community. I go to war tomorrow and I don't lose a bean. A high security corp goes to war ... Well that's a different beast.

You cannot ignore the bigger picture. It is not about solo pilots.


I spend less on null than in high. The 'cost of living' is just different.




Edit: won't be back in the thread, it is destined for the sewer as these always are.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-11-10 00:25:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

we shouldn't conflate pilot income with alliance income.


Extremely important point here. No amount of "Grr moons!" is worth anything when discussing individual personal income.



But they'll still try to GRRRR instead of discuss the point of hisec being stupidly good income with really low risk.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#11 - 2014-11-10 00:30:47 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

we shouldn't conflate pilot income with alliance income.


Extremely important point here. No amount of "Grr moons!" is worth anything when discussing individual personal income.



To a point. No one is srp'ing Mission losses.

You aren't getting it. Someone can fight in sov, get srp'd in sov, and mission in hisec. Owning sov and hisec missions are not mutually exclusice.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#12 - 2014-11-10 00:34:09 UTC
afkalt wrote:

To a point. No one is srp'ing Mission losses.


It's possible to die in missions?


Quote:

And if you want to cut right to it, playing the market is where the money is made.


No, that's where it's gained.

Aside from NPC buy orders, it is largely made elsewhere.


Quote:

Besides on looking at the wider picture - with full SRP the need for personal wealth decreases.


Never been with a null group, have you?

Quote:

Such are the benefits of being in a community. I go to war tomorrow and I don't lose a bean. A high security corp goes to war ... Well that's a different beast.


Yeah, they can just fold for a few mil and it goes away.


Quote:

You cannot ignore the bigger picture. It is not about solo pilots.


Yeah, it is, since that's the topic and all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-11-10 00:44:13 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Let me see if I got this right.

You go to high sec to gank everyone with no repercussions on a disposable alt, but you say high sec is the safest place to be.

Interesting.

Mr Epeen Cool



I gank on my main, however you post with no repercussions on a disposable alt. Should NPC alts be allowed to post? I'm just asking questions.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-11-10 00:45:31 UTC
afkalt wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
I can make the same amount of isk I would in nullsec without the risk.


This tells me that isk is more important to you than fun. That is the first sign you are going about eve wrong, now usually I don't tell people they are doing the sandbox wrong, but .... if your gameplay style is a chore then you are.


Furthermore, how many high sec corps have SRP funded by moon goo like all the serious corporations.....oh that's right.....zero.

So why is it, if high sec makes so much isk, that corps running real sinks like SRP and so forth live and earn outside of high sec again?


Isk is a means to an end and I get more ends with less means if I make isk proportional to the risk.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-11-10 00:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
PotatoOverdose wrote:
afkalt wrote:

So why is it, if high sec makes so much isk, that corps running real sinks like SRP and so forth live and earn outside of high sec again?

He's talking about individual pilot income, not alliance level income. A pilot can be in a sov alliance, partake in sov conflicts, but make his isk in hisec. Individual Iskmaking isn't tied to sovspace.

Mind you, I'm not convinced iskmaking from missions or some such is better than an upgraded -0.9 system or thereabouts, but we shouldn't conflate pilot income with alliance income.


You don't believe a CSM member?

E:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5168575#post5168575

Mike Azaria wrote:

It isn't, too many players in other parts of the game partially finance themselves with said income. If you gutted that the ripples would go much further than you might expect.


Right there the highsec CSM implies that highsec income is too good to the point other parts of the game have to finance themselves with said income.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#16 - 2014-11-10 00:54:00 UTC
And yet the goons manage to field a 1000 ship supercap fleet....offer double SRP on PvP, etc.... sounds like bankruptcy.

Not to mention AFK ratting and AFK mining with much better risk/reward than highsec, and no competence required. To recap - sov nullsec full of rich players, highsec full of poor players, and the richest corps/alliances all in highsec.

Solution - nerf highsec.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-11-10 00:56:01 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
And yet the goons manage to field a 1000 ship supercap fleet....offer double SRP on PvP, etc.... sounds like bankruptcy.

Not to mention AFK ratting and AFK mining with much better risk/reward than highsec, and no competence required. To recap - sov nullsec full of rich players, highsec full of poor players, and the richest corps/alliances all in highsec.

Solution - nerf highsec.


Veers you are confused about alliance level income versus individual income. Consider individual income then get back to us. Also yes the solution is to nerf highsec.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#18 - 2014-11-10 00:56:40 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
People go to or live in highsec for a variety of reasons for example I go to highsec because:

Someone is deserving of a suicide gank,

I forgot a skill book,

I need to transport a new recruits stuff to nullsec,

Marketeering,

Getting in as many safaris as I can on my alt before that play style gets removed,

I can make the same amount of isk I would in nullsec without the risk.

That last part is the most important part I am being forced into highsec and comparatively nullsec sucks because highsec is too good. There is no meaningful choice to this game play mechanic, if you want to make as much as you can you're in highsec. This is a game warping imbalance that is keeping EVE stagnated; for what reason, no body knows or those that do aren't speaking, I however know that "it doesn't make sense." Occupancy sov isn't going to mean anything if sov space is still garbage. Part of fixing nullsec is nerfing highsec; however that is not palatable to many people.

I'm sure in the first page you'll be able to see the tears/arguments stream in of "If you nerf highsec then I'll quit!" In preemptive answer to this objection I'm going to state: No you won't no one ever quits EVE they only take a break. I don't need to go into fine details but, that is the case.

The next terrible argument that needs to be addressed is "nerfing highsec hurts the newbies." This is demonstrably false, newbies are not capable of flying risk deficient L4s/Incursions in their completely safe officer fit ship. If anything hurts newbies its crappy NPE and the putrid miasma emanating from npc corporation channels.

What about buffing nullsec instead? The entire game is linked so a buff to nullsec is an indirect nerf to highsec. Yes its not a zero sum game, we all get that the details behind this are deeper than I expect the average GD member to grasp. The most important part is that this would involve power creep which is something to be avoided.

I have plenty of my own ideas and a plan drawn up that would rival anything James315 has written. However its lacking outside input; so GD how should highsec be nerfed?


You can't make more money in the blue donut?

You are blue to everyone in null and can't make more money?

Man you should give up and play something else.

I make shitloads of cash in low and null and I am not blue to anyone.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-11-10 00:58:49 UTC
Mharius Skjem wrote:


You can't make more money in the blue donut?

You are blue to everyone in null and can't make more money?

Man you should give up and play something else.

I make shitloads of cash in low and null and I am not blue to anyone.


Again individual income versus alliance income, referring to mythology as reality, and no evidence.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#20 - 2014-11-10 01:03:10 UTC
La Nariz wrote:

Right there the highsec CSM implies that highsec income is too good to the point other parts of the game have to finance themselves with said income.


Too bad CSM don't actually represent CCP. Implications, quotes taken out of context, and feelings don't mean squat without data.

La Nariz wrote:


Again individual income versus alliance income, referring to mythology as reality, and no evidence.


And where is your evidence?


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
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