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UI Modernization preview - Feedback and issues

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Circumstantial Evidence
#181 - 2014-11-09 14:19:06 UTC
User could get temporarily confused as to which tab or window is active, because the color on mouse hover of inactive tabs is identical to the final color, once the tab is made active.

If there is a difference between hover state on tabs and the active state, it is not distinct enough. Please increase contrast between the different states.

TQ / current behavior: for tabs, the text will get brighter on mouse hover. The background color/brightness doesn't change, until the tab is made active.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#182 - 2014-11-09 15:41:56 UTC
In addition to my previous post:

Some icons/services in the station service panel are redundant and should be removed. Like: Industry, Ship Fitting and Regional Market. Most players have these servies already in their neocom.

Furthermore, you may rethink the design of some icons, to make them more distinguishable.

- Inventory: I guess the cube should depict some sort of box to indicate wares and such. but the very neutral form of the cube makes it hard to get that connection. Suggestion Maybe make it look more like a parcel.

- Fleet: The three stars could be confusing, because the star symbol is already used in the corporation icon.
Suggestion 1 You could use a formation of ships as a clear indicator, or
Suggestion 2 maybe some sort of military insignia.

- Loyalty Point Store: A shield with a star in its middle is pretty meaningless in that case.
Suggestion Keep the current bay wreath symbol. Maybe add "LP" to the icon,, since this is a term commonly used ingame.

- Ship Insurance: The lock is an inappropriate symbol to depict an insurance
Suggestion Since you are getting back ISK in an insurance, why not use an ISK-symbol?


One other thing off the top of my head:

Speaking of the ISK-symbol, i think the dash in the middle crossing the "Z" should be a double dash. It is used in many currency symbols and many people recognize this form of imagery (capital letter crossed by double dash) as an icon for wallet or money in general.


Regards,
Damjan

Proposal: >>> New Inventory / Item Hangar <<<
Ronin Silfar
Our Big Spaceship Gang
#183 - 2014-11-09 15:53:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ronin Silfar
Cynthia Aishai wrote:
In the new UI, brackets can't be seen through pinned windows.

This is a serious problem.

Casey Ambraelle wrote:

  • I like the new window transparency layers especially if they work with the hacking interface there wasn't anything to scan down and test it.

  • Not all windows are resizable, stackable, or able to be rolled up to just the title bar. Fitting is one of these, Industry is another. Please make all windows resizable, stackable, and able to be rolled up. I'm a big boy I can decide how big I need a window to use it

  • Flat monochromatic icons are hideous and makes the game look like something from the 80's. I use to play ASCII games on a Kaypro II with a green monochromatic screen, while I like to wax poetic about ye old days I have no desire to relive them. Please keep the multi color icons that look modern and not a throw back to the 80's.

  • Where have all the sliders gone so I can create my own skin colors? You want to make some presets you can theme the UI on default with thats fine but please do not take away my ability to change the skin color as I see fit. Maybe I want a hot pink UI or a purple one or some other nausea inducing color that is possible with the RGB sliders.

    • /signed on all points. I don't hate the new icons, but I wouldn't like having them forced on me and do feel they are inferior overall. I'll give it time and report back, but I'm very passionate about UX design, and know my tastes well enough that I doubt time will soften my opinion of them. At a minimum people who want color should be able to have it. The great thing about the simple design of these monochromatic icons is that they could very easily be adjusted to a different color. Allowing us to color each of the icons ourselves if desired is preferable. A single color still, but one that we choose for each icon individually.

    Better would be letting us keep the old UI if we prefer it.

    Better still would be to officially support user UI modifications. Let the community create UIs for you and let the community decide what they want to use. [Insert MMO here] permits UI modifications, why don't you yet? :-/

    I get that learning new icons takes time. I'll report back like I said, but I can honestly say some of these icons need improvement as already mentioned. Better than flattening the icons would be improving some of the existing icons (like the confusing ship fitting icon) and keeping the same style.

    With regards to the color schemes. take a look at this screenshot from an alt: http://i.imgur.com/3mDm0w1.jpg
    That look is impossible with the new UI. Custom color schemes are 100% required. The Minmatar colors are pink?... really?!

    Aurelius Valentius wrote:
    Also I should mention people with astigmatism are going to have hard time with this concept unless it is properly implemented - due to the high contrast - I have an issue with this and I can't read some of text due to the contrast issues mentioned, but even the ones that are clearer - are blurry.

    the current UI has a very nice grey blend to it on some of the buttons in it - the old station tab replacement buttons - I would suggest that as an optional theme for people that have astigmatism, or other such issues.

    Also - while I am not - make sure you get color blind input as well.

    I have an astigmatism and can completely agree with this statement.

    Kaaeliaa wrote:
    The goal of an interface is to present the most broad usability possible, not to look pretty.

    And if this were for a job I'd be fine with that. It's for a game though, so damnit I want pretty! Flat monochromatic icons are not pretty. Now maybe if it were line-art that animated when you hovered over it it'd be more tolerable.

    Lykouleon wrote:
    Had a group of ~10 pilots on SISI for a while this evening. General consensus of the fleet was:

    1) Even after settling in, using the new NeoCom icons without colors is incredibly confusing. We much, much prefer the idea laid out by Google in their recent material design specifications, substituting NeoCom items as the 'branded' product icon: http://www.google.com/design/spec/style/icons.html#icons-product-icons

    ie: each NeoCom element should communicate its function. A lack of color on those elements deprived us of understanding their function visually. Otherwise, perfectly fine with the rest of the UI icons.

    2) Consistency of transparency needs to be addressed. Yada yada yada.

    3) Highlighted tabs are far too bright to be able to read underlying text.

    And personally, I really would prefer more options for background transparency. I've been using 'Black' as the window color and 'Stealth' as the background color for years to achieve a visual style that doesn't become overly intrusive with colors. The new colors...really, really annoy me and distract from what's going on behind the ui screens.

    I can not +1 this enough. Even just a splash of color is better than what we have now. For the color blindness reasons Blue Harrier mentioned in post #113, but also for quoted reasons.

    Conclusion: A large portion of my enjoyment in video games comes from aesthetics and visuals. I don't take serious issue with the mechanical and balance changes happening recently because I have faith in CCPs ability to sort all that out and provide a superior game experience in the end. However, UI and UX design have always been rather poor imo. It is in this area that I lack faith in CCPs ability to deliver. The current changes are too heavy-handed. Eve needs more color, not less of it. Why don't you start making monochromatic nebulae while you're at it eh? :P

    Also, I fully support an overview overhaul as a previous poster mentioned. http://bit.ly/1ttX9dy

    In the end though, it doesn't matter. CCP appears to subscribe to the sunk-cost fallacy.
    Loonge Karlin
    Beyond Reproach
    #184 - 2014-11-09 16:02:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Loonge Karlin
    Holy Jihad Warrior wrote:
    810mb of ram for each client on all low setting for useless **** on my screen i dont want or asked for, Dont do this CCP.


    Sounds like a hardware issue. I run 5 clients, all sit at 600-700 mb of ram each at max settings and not a single problem.
    Infact I've noticed the ram used by the new UI is lower than the old.
    Loonge Karlin
    Beyond Reproach
    #185 - 2014-11-09 16:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Loonge Karlin
    On another note more focused on these changes, overall its great. Stuff like tabs blinking and/or highlighting is cool, much more suited for a sci fi space game like EVE.

    Improvements are needed without a doubt.

    Things like as mention many time before, trans sliders for each window would be great. Overview is the first thing that comes to mind. Having the overview pinned and not active while trying to deal with the background lighting effect from such things as the sun or random light makes it very hard to read. Perhaps a slider for both the inactive and active stats for windows would be a good starting point.

    More customizable color schemes would be awesome. Being able to make our own themes is advisable. If i want a pink base color with elements being green or something nutz is cool.

    The "current" neocom icons are way better then the "new" ones. I would advise keeping the old icons but modernizing them. Take a leaf out of google's book but make them more 3D and clearer/cleaner. Same for station icons although I barely use them anyway but hey.

    Yes, Im gonna mention and complain about it. Where the hellz is the UI "Sharing" option? Much like what you've done with the overview but linking it up with the UI, weather you combine the sharing into one central screen or have them split doesn't matter but in all honesty that would've been the first thing you should of looked at when overhauling the UI. I'm a multiboxer and it would suit us more than most but in a way the same thing is true for the overview but I can tell you for a fact that it with would be used more then the overview sharing option.

    Also having the option to use the old UI or the new one

    I also have to highly agree with Ronin about the Overview. http://bit.ly/1ttX9dy If you really wanna play around with icons, do an overhaul of them while you're at it. I very much like the idea of using the ISIS icons for each type of hull in the overview. Don't worry about having a different icon for each ship just each size of ship. The ISIS icons are very simple yet still provide huge split second decision feedback. You warp into a **** fight and lots of things to choose from when targeting things. Having a different icon for frigates and destroyers would make it much better and easier to make good decisions. Having different icons for each ship though is kinda stupid because you still want people to have some mystery when it comes to "ok i know I'm going up a against a heap of Frigates but which ones to i get rid of ASAP".Thats where other features of the overview would come in like names and whatnot.
    Dreiden Kisada
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #186 - 2014-11-09 17:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dreiden Kisada
    I'm not understanding the choice to not support customization. In the very least, color sliders are a very minimal way of allowing customization. Making the whole UI modable would be awesome, but I understand that would take a while to actually do. If you guys decided to join the rest of us in the new millennium.

    But the specific design choice to remove functionality is contraindicated when trying to expand it.

    Also, I agree with a many folks who do not like the grey button neocom. The redesigns are nice, but color is just one single pipeline for information. Removing any differentiation actually reduces it.

    Edit: We keep being told to "Just try it, you'll like it" as if we had A) We had a choice, and B) like you're trying to feed us brusselsprouts.
    WhoBeI
    Duty.
    Brave Collective
    #187 - 2014-11-09 17:35:52 UTC
    Looks good in general although it's going to take some time getting used to the new icons.

    I agree with the comments so far i.e. glow to bright, transparency needs a slider and icons need some work. Good effort though and looking forward to see the iterations.

    How about font size? Doing anything on that front? Would be nice if I could set the font size globally for all windows and not just for individual chart channels and context menus. I'd be happy with a small/medium/large with medium being the current size.
    Owen E Vader
    TheMurk
    #188 - 2014-11-09 18:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen E Vader
    Some feedback.

    New visuals make windows not transparent for the HUD.
    Some artifacts like square shadows.
    Colour presets are generally bad idea if they're not editable.
    Some presets give bad visual experience, like making text unreadable.

    Here are the screenshots:

    The HUD is not visible: http://i.imgur.com/dlz8Sze.jpg
    "Amarr" colour theme, look at the 3rd tab of the overview, it's unreadable: http://i.imgur.com/MDcJdqU.jpg
    Coloured areas of all new themes definitely need transparency: http://i.imgur.com/lNkWqVV.jpg
    Misplaced shadows over some windows: http://i.imgur.com/5jtHKoc.jpg

    Please, make an editable colour theme, or increase the available variety at least 3 times (not an exaggeration). Current choise is too narrow.
    Many of us like to customize the game client to their exact tastes, please don't oversimplify things.

    "Lock target" button needs a tooltip showing current lock range.

    Also, please look at this: http://i.imgur.com/kYeoMsv.jpg
    It's my left control panel on linux. Some groups of icons manually separated by me. The "separator" icon has manually changeable size.
    Please make Neocom panel so that it would allow to freely move and separate icons, to change their colours (or to choose between 2-3 icon presets).
    Owen E Vader
    TheMurk
    #189 - 2014-11-09 18:42:58 UTC
    This is a possible leader between the strange effects (on the left): http://i.imgur.com/1Jvxds8.jpg
    Wakah Menk
    Versus Gloria Omnis
    Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
    #190 - 2014-11-09 18:53:32 UTC
    Like the song says, hate is a strong word, but I really really really don’t like this. I don’t know how difficult it would be to implement, but I would definitely ask that there is some kind of ‘classic’ (IE: the current) theme when this ships. As is, the whole thing comes off as change for the sake of change. I’ve gone through this sort of thing with windows and various browsers as well. Options are always nice, as are new features, but unilateral stylistic changes are extremely subjective.

    I’m sure there will be plenty of people who love this, and most (including me) would be able to get used to it. But that could be said about any change. Even ignoring things that are probably glitches like disappearing station services and transparent to the point of invisibility right click menus, this doesn’t seem like an improvement to me.
    Entity
    X-Factor Industries
    Synthetic Existence
    #191 - 2014-11-09 19:13:02 UTC
    I'm not a fan of the monochrome icons for neocom and station panel.

    The process of quickly identifying an icon is usually done using a combination of these (in order of importance)
    - positional ("muscle memory" of sorts)
    - color
    - shape

    You take away the color component, it becomes harder to identify icons (until the positional factor kicks in again after using the UI for a while)

    I'm not entirely sure why fine looking 11 year old icons need to be changed. Seems to me like this is a change for the sake of change and has very little to do with the UI engine upgrade itself.

    ╦......║...╔╗.║.║.╔╗.╦║.╔╗╔╦╗╔╗

    ║.╔╗╔╗╔╣.╔╗╠..╠ ╠╗╠╝.║╠ ╠╝║║║╚╗

    ╩═╚╝║.╚╝.╚╝║..╚╝║║╚╝.╩╚╝╚╝║.║╚╝

    Got Item?
    Owen E Vader
    TheMurk
    #192 - 2014-11-09 19:28:49 UTC
    Entity wrote:

    Seems to me like this is a change for the sake of change and has very little to do with the UI engine upgrade itself.

    Exactly like so many other changes over last couple of years.
    Owen E Vader
    TheMurk
    #193 - 2014-11-09 19:31:07 UTC
    I personally would prefer if the old and new icons co-existed as two optional icon sets.
    IronLance
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #194 - 2014-11-09 19:44:03 UTC
    The color and transparency selections of the current UI are excellent. I can already create transparent UI windows that are pretty invisible if left unpinned, or adjust them to suit my style. Obscured transparency is great for bathroom windows and shower stalls, but not for something like this. (Unless you are deliberately trying to **** off the art department by blocking everyones view of their work)

    The new icons in the Neocom, for the most part, are fine. I'm going to assume that these are what was ready when the decision was made to add this patch to Sisi, since there are some icons that can use work. The "People and Places" icon, if you're going to continue using that title, looks nothing like it should. On TQ it's a combination of , huh, People and part of the Map icon. Perhaps something similar for the new icon would make it look less like the new Journal icon.

    Using the generic "pages" icon for ISIS, the Tutorial button, and everything that's minimized to the Neocom is a big NO-GO, hence my assumption that these are WIP.

    When in space, the D Scan also has the generic 'pages' button on the Neocom, why not the same icon as under the Scanners button? The Inventory button on Neocom, why not the same as Cargo Hold button on the HUD?
    Kristoff Merkas
    4S Corporation
    The Initiative.
    #195 - 2014-11-09 19:45:36 UTC
    This is terrible. The new UI makes it look like some sort of over-simplified mobile port. The switching between transparent and opaque are also very, very annoying.

    It doesn't look militaristic at all, instead it looks cheesy. I see nothing wrong with the current UI, and in fact, the icons on the current one are less confusing than the new one.

    This seems like just change because you want something new, but it is downright ugly.

    Do not implement this CCP, it looks terrible, and will detract from gameplay IMO. If there was some way to keep the old UI when this is ported in, it wouldn't be so bad.

    TMC Contributor

    LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM Forever!

    I say this... We don't need to blame ourselves just because we've hurt someone, just like when you're walking you can't really blame yourself to crush some ants... that's what being stronger ones
    Challus Mercer
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #196 - 2014-11-09 19:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Challus Mercer
    Adrie Atticus wrote:
    Challus Mercer wrote:
    Adrie Atticus wrote:
    Challus Mercer wrote:
    After some testing i was surprised how good actually the new UI is. It is really easier to work with new abstract icons instead of that old fashioned pseudo 3d icons. Transparency effect is really amazing! Finally i can see more of the space behind all windows. I hope you will keep on removing the excel-look and adding more of sci-fi look into the game!
    What about negative feedback - there will be allways ppl who just stick to old thing despite of how bad they are and cant accept anything new. So dont let you discourage yourself by such posts.


    Not being able to read the text isn't a complaint about how older is better.

    You should make a screenshot of it and submit a bug report. This is the only way you can help with development, of course if you really want to help, because some people only want to shitpost on the forums make devs stop any progress they make.


    Torgeir Hekard wrote:
    You know what. I'll just leave it here.

    Peek at it at your own risk. You HAVE been warned.

    http://i.imgur.com/46oTyvO.jpg


    This is from the same thread not more than 6 posts before you.

    As i was on test server i didn't manage to make the UI look like this. It's either a bug and will be hopefully fixed or the author made such look deliberately just to throw the sh*t at the fan.
    Wagsy
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #197 - 2014-11-09 20:09:12 UTC
    For the love of all that is holy, consider the option to scale the UI down further.
    The current options of "gigantic" or "slightly less gigantic" are falling abit short.
    Surely this would be the time to give us the option to go down to at least 50%, preferably even smaller.

    Or even better. Divide the UI into segments and allow scaling from 10-150% size on each individual part.

    Also, the ability to save your window positions , sizes and UI scale along with your overview settings.
    So often is the response to a problem to "reset your cache" deleting all the work you put into your UI.
    Christopher AET
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #198 - 2014-11-09 20:09:18 UTC
    Is it possible to have the UI colour preset change depending on ship race. So it's yellow when I am in my Archon and automatically that greenish colour as soon as I jump in a Proteus for example

    I drain ducks of their moisture for sustenance.
    Lykouleon
    Noble Sentiments
    Second Empire.
    #199 - 2014-11-09 20:39:25 UTC
    Looking back at last evening, every time I was using the NeoCom to do something, I was not basing my use of the NeoCom off of the shapes of the icons. I was doing almost all of my tasks on the NeoCom based on relative location from the NEX store icon since that was the only one I could easily identify based on it having color and an understandable shape.

    A handful of the icons are really confusing in their current state, regardless of color or not.

    Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
    Blue Harrier
    #200 - 2014-11-09 20:46:37 UTC
    I’ve tried out the new UI on my laptop and on this it just doesn’t work, the screen res is 1366 * 768 and uses an ATI Radeon HD 4300 graphics card. The Neocom Icons are almost unreadable because they merge into the background. Also they don’t seem to scale as well as the old Icons (I’m running at 90%).

    Another thing that might not be helping is the fact I had to dial back the graphic settings to low or disabled just to get a reasonable FPS of 60, using the old TQ settings I could only manage 20 to 40 Fps and in some cases as low as 15 Fps, it made a not very pleasant experience.

    On a large screen it might work but for laptop users it may well be a step backwards. Trouble is some people like it, some love it and some will hate it, you can never please everyone.

    "You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.