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Phoebe: A new kind of exploration site

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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2014-11-06 10:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I really like the idea of Hackable Locked Acceleration Gates,. +1 on that would like to see more of this kind of thing.

What about failure on this? unlimited hacking attempts?
I would expect one of 2 things should happen, either the gate sends out a distress signal and alerts rats, or it SD and the site respawns elsewhere.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
The security beacon functioned different than expected, I was expecting it to summon sleepers to defend the cache instead i was greeted with an explosion that sent my Astero into 28% hull from about 50% shields [Amarr Frigate 4, Adaptive Nano Plating, Damage Control II]. While this is not necessaraly a bad thing it can make doing the frigate sites in anything less than an Astero extremely difficuly if not impossible given the general lack of HP covert ops frigates have.

Needs some tweaks i presume, it would be shame to do this in Astero only.
I would be more inclined to ask for faction ships similar to the Astero but T2 quality rather than ask for the sites to be scaled down to accomidate Covert Ops Frigates.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

All this looks good but can we bookmark cans behind the "warp gate" and warp to them? Isn't it kinda too safe to be behind warp gate?
...and it's not looks so good anymore. Basically you can choose what ship you want for explo now, with restriction on warp gates it would make long term runs not so fun. Hard to change ships with 30+jumps from your base.

This is no different than combat sites in high sec, you chose what size sites you are after before you depart on your adventure, and have to skip sites that are restricted for your size ship.

On a side note I anticipate that these sites are going to be size coordinated with security status; High Sec = Frigate Site, Low Sec = Cruiser Site, Null Sec = Nestor Site Battleship Site

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#62 - 2014-11-06 11:35:29 UTC
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned here yet....but how hard will this site be to complete with the lowest graphics settings? ( ie...the settings that don't show clouds and other stuff that likes to melt cards...) Face it CCP, not everyone enjoys their PC's melting all the time...



this and this again, i hate those clouds for over i dont know 5+ years now? :) can we have some option to turn those off (they are like everywhere, even fw plexes) everytime "hi graphic card im crappy cloud(or more?!), lets spin it harder baby"
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#63 - 2014-11-06 13:42:28 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
This is no different than combat sites in high sec, you chose what size sites you are after before you depart on your adventure, and have to skip sites that are restricted for your size ship.

I've started doing combat sites in hisec and CCP are quite inconsistent with them. I'm flying gila and can't enter DED 1/10 and 2/10, but can enter unrated 2/10 and even 1/10 for drones. If someone can do nullsec sites in astero or covop, good, let them. Tresholds should be on clone skills/modules not hulls (maybe not all). I know i'm whinning but we are building barriers from wrong direction. We are shrinking exploration again to certain ships. Its game mechanics but still (i like the idea of dmg clouds, shame it can't be scaled to hull size). There shouldn't be obstacles like: you can go there because warp gate won't let you (not in noncombat exploration). Conversely, I can do sites in hisec with stratios or t3, but i will be much less efficient that agilie frigate hull. Same thing apply to any sec. Do we want fast, agilie frig or more cargohold and some defence capacity on cruiser? Ghost sites are such a waste potential imo, because they need certain fitted kind of ship, there's no choice here.

I'm happy that someone in CCP finally see that we can hack something else than data/relics containers. I was running DED site yesterday and there was a lot of structures on grid, like silos etc. Why not makes this non combat sites? These are already in game, just remove rats, and some cans, hackable gates between pockets, hackable structures, dmg clouds. Something like real exploration of the sites instead of cargo scan, hack one and gtfo.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Circumstantial Evidence
#64 - 2014-11-06 14:50:43 UTC
I checked out the highsec site in Kuomi.

With T2 hacking modules, all scanning skills at level 4, Stratios, standard core launcher, no scanning rigs or midslot modules, Sister core probes: strength 87.1 pts, Base Deviation .08 AU

The best I could scan down the highsec site, using default pinpoint probe layout, centered on the signature point, was 90%.
I got to 100% by shrinking the default probe formation tightly around the signature point.
I think this is a fair balance for highsec, it requires a little bit of extra effort, new players might not know about the Alt-click probe adjustment. I like that it's possible with level 4 skills and the standard launcher.

Warping to the site: Other data/relic sites display a message hinting at what to expect, but no message was displayed on warping to this one. First warp would be a good time to inform players if their ship size (frigate / cruiser) is appropriate for the site.

I didn't fail the first puzzle and the Rift appeared, so can't comment if hack failure seems overly harsh ;)

On attempting to enter the rift, I got a message telling me I need a smaller ship.
Site and rift were still there and open, after 10 mins of fitting up an Astero. Fortunately Kuomi had a seeded station.
Astero lows were T2 200mm plate, T2 EANM, T2 small repper, T2 DCU. (Close to 2000 armor HP and 6000 EHP on fitting screen.)

I had a cargo scanner, so I knew which can contained the BPC. (I'm hoping one is guaranteed to appear, since the site is going to be "rare.")
The closest thing on entry was a "Remote Presssure Control Unit," so I hacked this first, before approaching a Dented Storage Depot with the BPC, tucked inside an exploded structure, with a mildly suspicious glowing gas cloud.

I took no damage until I was done hacking; I got a 1 run bpc for polarized neutron blaster.
(The allowed time seems good, if you don't fail the first attempt.)

Then as I moved away, I started taking environment damage every 1-3 seconds.
25-55 points per hit into armor. I was able to keep up with the damage, using small armor repper on this fit.

Looking around the site, I noticed "Remote Defence Grid Unit" - I didn't fail any hacks before hacking this, so i'm guessing this stops damage from the storage depot cans, if you fail a hack. Because it certainly doesn't stop Plasma Cloud damage, while steering a path in and around the clouds to hack it, and other loot cans ;)

Only after I hacked the Remote Defence Grid Unit did I intentionally fail some hacks to see what would happen, and noticed I was able to hack storage depot cans an unlimited number of times, if I failed the attempt.

The site doesn't despawn right away, if you warp away leaving some cans un-hacked.

Suggestions:
The message "Spawn Container is not a valid target for this module" from what the player should think are not containers (the rift-creating Hyperfluct Generator, Remote Presssure Control Unit, Remote Defence Grid Unit) is immersion breaking. Please improve this text for these objects, if possible.

Some site loot seems to go against the Sleeper theme, I found a meta 4 medium neutron blaster.
I would prefer to see only "sleeper components" and related invention / manufacturing items.

Considering site rarity, after the BPC, loot felt "sparse": some cans containing only 100 RAM. I know this is the highsec version, but... perhaps a few more items? Or, perhaps take away 2 cans and re-distribute same loot amount.

Thoughts:
The site offers choices to reduce the problems you might face, that's awesome. But you're not forced into a path, if you think you can handle or evade some environment damage, and have experience with the high difficulty (90) hacking puzzle.

This site offers a wonderful change of pace from Approach Can / Hack / Take Loot. The "Rift" appearing, gives the site a feeling of discovery. I spent 15 minutes just looking over everything and reading "Show Info's", before deciding what to do first. (I don't think other players will let me have that kind of quality time in highsec, once it hits TQ. Bear)
CCP Paradox
#65 - 2014-11-06 14:57:25 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
I checked out the highsec site in Kuomi.

Warping to the site: Other data/relic sites display a message hinting at what to expect, but no message was displayed on warping to this one. First warp would be a good time to inform players if their ship size (frigate / cruiser) is appropriate for the site.

....

Some site loot seems to go against the Sleeper theme, I found a meta 4 medium neutron blaster.
I would prefer to see only "sleeper components" and related invention / manufacturing items.



Thanks for the feedback. I will look at the first point quoted above. I like that we should have some text to introduce this site before you begin, we should keep it consistent with the other sites.




And as for the loot, well... What are the Sleepers doing in known space? This is all new...

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician
Circumstantial Evidence
#66 - 2014-11-06 15:06:41 UTC
Can you do anything about "Spawn Container is not a valid target for this module" ?
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#67 - 2014-11-06 16:11:40 UTC
New site
Joony Pew exploring new site.

Good job CCP. Hacking will really mean something now, and we will have to watch our surroundings.
As Omnathious Deninard wrote, i hope this will be the future of exploring.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-11-06 16:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
Got to get this question out of my system. Will these sites be hacking only or will we get to see some sleeper combat in theses also?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#69 - 2014-11-07 21:47:52 UTC
I ran one of these sites in Null Sec the other day. The first time I tried, the site had already been completed (couldn't hack cans, plasma/fire clouds in space, etc.). The next day I went to the same bookmark (it was also able to be scanned with probes) and was able to do the hacking, but all of the cans were empty and the clouds were already spawned and doing damage. I'm guessing there was an issues with despawning?

Comments on the site:
- Scanning difficulty was good. With max skills, in a dedicated scanning ship (sisters launcher, probes, mid-slot mods, etc.) I was able to get 100% lock at 0.5 AU probe size. It was obviously harder than other sites (similar to when I find a crystal quarry or a H-PA Blue Pill site), without being overly impossible (requiring virtue implants).

It would be nice if these sites didn't just show up on the system scanner. They are meant for the more experienced explorers, so make people work for them. Bring back the days where explorers were actually exploring for sites... not just warping system to system looking for sigs on the system scanner. With the increased speed from the new scanning/probe formations experienced explorers shouldn't have a problem needing to scan each system to find rare sites. This also brings a sense of unknown into exploration... there could be a site just waiting for you to find it, but you'll have to drop probes to check.

- Having to only use a frigate was a bit disappointing, as it required changing ships (thankfully it was SiSi and markets were seeded). Hopefully when this goes live there is a range of sizes... not just the frig sites with larger ones to come at a later date. If there are different size sites, with scaled damage from clouds, then there should be scaled rewards.

- Hacking difficulty was good, challenging... but doable with good skills and fit. The ability to fail the hack more than 2 times is nice. The damage that comes from a failed hack is a good motivator for getting it right the first time rather than just "brute force" hacking (like can be done in the H-PA Blue Pill sites).

- Not being able to use a MWD was a bit annoying, especially with damage based on time in the cloud, so I'm glad to hear there are changes coming for that.

- Can't comment on the loot, since all the cans were empty for me, but as long as there is something of greater value than the current data/relic sites (e.g. the ghost sites) I think the risk is worth the rewards.

- It's nice to have choices when it comes to the risks (other than just adding rats)... fly carefully in a lightly tanked ship, or tank (at the expense of scanning/hacking) to fly through clouds. Reminds me a bit of ghost sites... if everything goes right first time no tank is needed; so, do I feel lucky this time? or do I refit a tank?

Increasing the depth of the exploration profession
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#70 - 2014-11-08 20:11:29 UTC
So instead of warping the ship through the fake wormhole..why not just teleport the ship and play the cyno in effect. It would be sexier and more fitting.
Circumstantial Evidence
#71 - 2014-11-09 13:43:18 UTC
Toddfish wrote:
I'm guessing there was an issues with despawning?
Confirming Cleanup or Despawn problem. I warped back to Kuomi site bookmark described above... site still there. Containers lost all descriptive text, all are named [no messageID: {number}]Some container contents refilled with new stuff; perhaps just the ones I left un-hacked. Most were empty. A BPC for a Cosmos / Storyline weapon: what?!
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#72 - 2014-11-09 14:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Quote:
This acceleration gate is not configured to handle your Stratios.

Seriously? Enough with the Frigate-specific content already... And is this confirmed as a Rhea feature yet?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-11-09 15:31:40 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Quote:
This acceleration gate is not configured to handle your Stratios.

Seriously? Enough with the Frigate-specific content already... And is this confirmed as a Rhea feature yet?

There will be 3 sizes of sites at some point.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#74 - 2014-11-10 04:57:09 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
There will be 3 sizes of sites at some point.

High-sec sites better not be limited to frigates...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-11-10 05:12:17 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
There will be 3 sizes of sites at some point.

High-sec sites better not be limited to frigates...

There is a a good chance you might be sorely disappointed. I might be wrong though.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#76 - 2014-11-10 13:49:12 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
There is a a good chance you might be sorely disappointed. I might be wrong though.

Outside of a fleet, anything larger than a cruiser is as good as dead once in leaves high-sec.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Toddfish
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#77 - 2014-11-11 21:19:11 UTC
An interesting quote from the dev blog on these sites:
Quote:
Environmental damage can be very dangerous as it can actually destroy your capsule as well as your ship.


Shocked Wow, that will be interesting... big risks there. Hopefully the rewards will be worth the effort!

Increasing the depth of the exploration profession
seroela
An My
#78 - 2014-11-14 21:06:59 UTC
yesterday i came across such a site in null on tranquility. and only frigates are allowed to run that site.

i am getting fed up flying trough null with a whole army of ships/chars to only do the hack/relic game.
i am aware hack, relic and to a certain degree ghosts can be done in a frigate, gas hack cannot, but since there are cruisers, t3s and bs with hack and scan bonus, i am very disapointed again with the route of limiting what you can do out in space as an explorer, its more like without a station or pos to refit or reship one cant null to its full hack potential.
i think it was radical enough to ban t3s from low sec lower end sites (which was on one hand understandable,..)

it doesnt make the game richer to force people into a frigate or just let them stand outside in null.

Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-11-18 10:54:25 UTC
Did one of these in Hisec yesterday, using my Astero. Was doing relic/data sites, and realized this one was different during the probing. Was difficult to scan down, 3+3 skills and +2 implant. I had to ball all of my probes to get the 100%. Nice.

Note: I had not read anything about these beforehand, so this was all new.


The initial warp-in had already been hacked, so just proceeded into the gate. Anticipation...

There were three frigate wrecks here, two Herons and an Astero. Damn, what did I get myself into? I can see the gas clouds, and carefully try and avoid them and make my way to the first hack. Take some enviro damage, but tank with sm. repper is working. I have 2 faction nanos, so resists are good.

Hack is difficult, and there are new elements that I don't recognize or understand. But I manage to solve the core without fail, and get 100 RAM. Ok, off to the next one. Another ship arrives, and the Heron heads off to one of the other hacks.

Fail that hack miserably, and take damage. What are these things? Try again, and whatever I did (or the Heron) now caused a shield bubble around one of the other cans. wtf? I am confused, but really enjoying myself! The unknown is absolutely thrilling.

Ok, finally finish the hack and...some sleeper components. Now there are only the can that the heron is doing, and the one in the bubble. I can see the shield generator, so I assume that I have to destroy it. So I start off to close range to the shield... BLAM!
Now sitting in my pod, my Astero is wrecked. ROFL at this point! I don't even know what killed me.

So I BM my wreck, and warp off and go and get my other Astero and return. Warp to BM puts me back at the entrance gate. I salvage my wreck first, drop it in station, and then head back to the shield gen. Deploy my drones and attack the shield. Cannot drop the shield, it is holding at about 60%. Just don't have enough dps. An incursus enters, and I mmsg him in local to attack the shield. Together we take it down in about 2 minutes.

I head for the final hack, and after a couple of failures manage to solve the core. I got the 3-run bpc for the sebo, so I'm okay with the loot. I also recovered the expensive mods from my wrecked Astero, so in all cost me a hull.

Impressions: This was friggin awesome! Exactly why I got into exploring in the first place! The unknown, the risk (and failure) and the reward. Absolutely made my day:)

Thanks ccp. Please keep as many random elements to these as you can, that's what exploring truly is about.

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#80 - 2014-11-29 07:47:27 UTC
I just found one and tried it.



Shocked


When I say "Bring the pain, CCP" in the forums someone apparently listened.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!