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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

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Sierra Mackenzie
Black Widow Logistics
#361 - 2014-10-09 22:19:13 UTC
Dear Greyscale,

I still hate you and think you should go work for Riot because even CONSIDERING the changes to JFs was completely boneheaded with how null industry and PI currently works, but I'm glad you listened and I will be resubbing for the time being.

Also, everyone who laughed in the last thread, well, laugh now. Guess you don't get my stuff.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#362 - 2014-10-09 22:19:16 UTC
CCP Greyscale

If you want nullsec industry to really thrive, let outpost owners charge sales and indy/research taxes. Market hubs will spring up very rapidly :)
Arun Tadaruwa
Hotbirds
#363 - 2014-10-09 22:22:34 UTC
Jump Freighters having higher overall mobility than Black Ops ships is a no, to me.

Likewise, the 10LY range is excessive.
9LY is sufficient for most regional gaps.
8 would be perfect, in my opinion.

You should not balance game-changing mechanics around one occupation's tediousness.

Mining has been tedious since 2003, so have been logistics.

Alt posting because yes.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#364 - 2014-10-09 22:23:16 UTC
Sierra Mackenzie wrote:
Dear Greyscale,

I still hate you and think you should go work for Riot because even CONSIDERING the changes to JFs was completely boneheaded with how null industry and PI currently works, but I'm glad you listened and I will be resubbing for the time being.

Also, everyone who laughed in the last thread, well, laugh now. Guess you don't get my stuff.

Well he stated he doesn't like the way the game works, but has had to give in to the countless whine babies like yourself, despite the fact he would prefer to implement the changes originally proposed for the good of the game.

So thanks for holding back progress, but the nerf will come eventually when the whine bears have been prepared.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#365 - 2014-10-09 22:25:27 UTC
Significantly better than the initial proposal. Question though.

Do the 90% hauler and 50% covert bonuses stack? Cause with that, a group using blops bridging could move materials faster(shorter cooldowns) than jfs. Which actually seems kinda nice and could have numerous strategic uses ( not limited to bringing in more ammo for covops gangs and hauling out loot)
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#366 - 2014-10-09 22:25:44 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
CCP Greyscale

If you want nullsec industry to really thrive, let outpost owners charge sales and indy/research taxes. Market hubs will spring up very rapidly :)

Good news -- I've gone back in time and implemented this. You can do this right now.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Sierra Mackenzie
Black Widow Logistics
#367 - 2014-10-09 22:27:40 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Sierra Mackenzie wrote:
Dear Greyscale,

I still hate you and think you should go work for Riot because even CONSIDERING the changes to JFs was completely boneheaded with how null industry and PI currently works, but I'm glad you listened and I will be resubbing for the time being.

Also, everyone who laughed in the last thread, well, laugh now. Guess you don't get my stuff.

Well he stated he doesn't like the way the game works, but has had to give in to the countless whine babies like yourself, despite the fact he would prefer to implement the changes originally proposed for the good of the game.

So thanks for holding back progress, but the nerf will come eventually when the whine bears have been prepared.

Yeah nah I'd rather not let him break the game for two years while we wait for a "fix". You can't just come into a sub-based game and expect to change a fundamental way about how the game works and have people not be upset. Welcome to the real world.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#368 - 2014-10-09 22:27:43 UTC
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Significantly better than the initial proposal. Question though.

Do the 90% hauler and 50% covert bonuses stack? Cause with that, a group using blops bridging could move materials faster(shorter cooldowns) than jfs. Which actually seems kinda nice and could have numerous strategic uses ( not limited to bringing in more ammo for covops gangs and hauling out loot)

He already said that they would stack.
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#369 - 2014-10-09 22:29:24 UTC
Querns wrote:
Camios wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Hi everyone,


  • All ships designated as having a "hauling" role in ISIS (ie the following ship groups: Industrial, Blockade Runner, Deep Space Transport, Industrial Command Ship, Freighter) will similarly get a 90% reduction to distance counted for the purpose of fatigue generation. Obviously they can't jump themselves, but this also applies on use of bridges or portals.




I want to emphasise that this can be exploited. Everyone takes an industrial ship, moves to the nearest-to-objective ship cache using the jump bridge network and titan bridges, then reships.

I think this will be really easier than using swarms of jumpclones, especially with the 90% fatigue reduction.


How exactly is this faster than taking gates in an interceptor?


Jump bridges usually cut away a lot of jumps, danger and time.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#370 - 2014-10-09 22:30:31 UTC
So basically you caved in to the 0.0 carebears.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#371 - 2014-10-09 22:30:37 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
a significant percentage of their basic needs on-site without relying on JF chains


AKA: rebalancing nullsec ore anomalies


Good idea. It's been a while since I messed with nullsec anomalies. I think I remember how to do it...


Greyscale, please do not fall for this. The static belts in Null balance out the anoms. And are no more dangerous to use than the anoms are currently. Null should have to use all tools at it's disposal, not simply the easiest ones.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#372 - 2014-10-09 22:31:10 UTC
Sierra Mackenzie wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Sierra Mackenzie wrote:
Dear Greyscale,

I still hate you and think you should go work for Riot because even CONSIDERING the changes to JFs was completely boneheaded with how null industry and PI currently works, but I'm glad you listened and I will be resubbing for the time being.

Also, everyone who laughed in the last thread, well, laugh now. Guess you don't get my stuff.

Well he stated he doesn't like the way the game works, but has had to give in to the countless whine babies like yourself, despite the fact he would prefer to implement the changes originally proposed for the good of the game.

So thanks for holding back progress, but the nerf will come eventually when the whine bears have been prepared.

Yeah nah I'd rather not let him break the game for two years while we wait for a "fix". You can't just come into a sub-based game and expect to change a fundamental way about how the game works and have people not be upset. Welcome to the real world.

This isn't the real world, it is a game. This is the problem, people treat the game as a second job. If you weren't so fussy about keeping your perfect logistics network, and just let the guy make changes to the game for the benefit and enjoyment of all, then null sec wouldn't have become so stale as it is right now in the first place.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2014-10-09 22:31:22 UTC
Lallante wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Sure, because Jump Freighters are what holds empires together. If the troops can't hold the space or the moons because of the "force projection" nerfs then it wont matter if a jump freighter can more easily pick up anything ie trade goods, ships/mods, moongoo, etc.


Its both. Unnerffing JFs just means the status quo for logistics is preserved and nullsec industry will never develop. Why bother building in nullsec when you can JF from Jita in safety?


Existence of Jump Freighters isn't the reason why null industry is not developing. It's not developing, because a) Highsec production is still easier to manage and handle than producing the same goods in null. If there is a safer alternative for production economy, the production economy will settle on the safer alternative as dangers and risks add to your costs and decrease your ability to compete in the free market b) Resources and minerals in nullsec are lacking, requiring massive amounts of certain minerals to be imported from empire

Additionally, the stability of entire T2 module and ship market depends on manageable lines of logistics between null and empire, as the materials necessary for T2 is overwhelmingly provided by null.
Sierra Mackenzie
Black Widow Logistics
#374 - 2014-10-09 22:35:00 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Sierra Mackenzie wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Sierra Mackenzie wrote:
Dear Greyscale,

I still hate you and think you should go work for Riot because even CONSIDERING the changes to JFs was completely boneheaded with how null industry and PI currently works, but I'm glad you listened and I will be resubbing for the time being.

Also, everyone who laughed in the last thread, well, laugh now. Guess you don't get my stuff.

Well he stated he doesn't like the way the game works, but has had to give in to the countless whine babies like yourself, despite the fact he would prefer to implement the changes originally proposed for the good of the game.

So thanks for holding back progress, but the nerf will come eventually when the whine bears have been prepared.

Yeah nah I'd rather not let him break the game for two years while we wait for a "fix". You can't just come into a sub-based game and expect to change a fundamental way about how the game works and have people not be upset. Welcome to the real world.

This isn't the real world, it is a game. This is the problem, people treat the game as a second job. If you weren't so fussy about keeping your perfect logistics network, and just let the guy make changes to the game for the benefit and enjoyment of all, then null sec wouldn't have become so stale as it is right now in the first place.

This is the real world when people pay real money every month. CCP lives and dies off of sub numbers.

Cutting null logistics off at the knees would only make people move closer to empire and effectively ruin low sec and FW. You're kidding yourself if you think people would stay 10 capital jumps away from the borders.
Cr Turist
Arcana Noctis
#375 - 2014-10-09 22:35:33 UTC
I have to comment on some of the whinning in this thread. ok so a middle ground was reached YAY! but now all the people that were ooo so happy drinking up tears of capital pilots and logi guys are crying and i think that fantastic.

i keep hearing people bitching about ooo power projection this ooo they ruin our fights with there legions of assholes and stupid about of capital. why has nobody talked about how IS boxer is a major issue or about how bombers are way to overpowered maybe these are the pilots that love ishtars? you know the ishtar its the crusier hull with t2 resists that does battle ship dps.

fact is you must find a middle ground. and i think CCP understands that and is trying to please as much of the player base as it can.

for all the people crying about ooo u didnt stick to your guns bla bla \____/ <----- tears here please
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#376 - 2014-10-09 22:37:03 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Lallante wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Sure, because Jump Freighters are what holds empires together. If the troops can't hold the space or the moons because of the "force projection" nerfs then it wont matter if a jump freighter can more easily pick up anything ie trade goods, ships/mods, moongoo, etc.


Its both. Unnerffing JFs just means the status quo for logistics is preserved and nullsec industry will never develop. Why bother building in nullsec when you can JF from Jita in safety?


Existence of Jump Freighters isn't the reason why null industry is not developing.

So, being able to effortlessly jump all the materials you need from high sec into null sec has nothing to do with the fact that local null sec production never took off?

Do you actually believe what you write, or just propaganda?
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#377 - 2014-10-09 22:37:11 UTC
Sierra Mackenzie wrote:
Dear Greyscale,

I still hate you and think you should go work for Riot because even CONSIDERING the changes to JFs was completely boneheaded with how null industry and PI currently works, but I'm glad you listened and I will be resubbing for the time being.

Also, everyone who laughed in the last thread, well, laugh now. Guess you don't get my stuff.




I did have one question for CCP Greyscale: Did you guys draw lots to see who would announce the changes and if so did you win or lose?
Dwissi
Miners Delight Reborn
#378 - 2014-10-09 22:39:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dwissi
Alp Khan wrote:
Lallante wrote:
Dirk MacGirk wrote:
Sure, because Jump Freighters are what holds empires together. If the troops can't hold the space or the moons because of the "force projection" nerfs then it wont matter if a jump freighter can more easily pick up anything ie trade goods, ships/mods, moongoo, etc.


Its both. Unnerffing JFs just means the status quo for logistics is preserved and nullsec industry will never develop. Why bother building in nullsec when you can JF from Jita in safety?


Existence of Jump Freighters isn't the reason why null industry is not developing. It's not developing, because a) Highsec production is still easier to manage and handle than producing the same goods in null. If there is a safer alternative for production economy, the production economy will settle on the safer alternative as dangers and risks add to your costs and decrease your ability to compete in the free market b) Resources and minerals in nullsec are lacking, requiring massive amounts of certain minerals to be imported from empire

Additionally, the stability of entire T2 module and ship market depends on manageable lines of logistics between null and empire, as the materials necessary for T2 is overwhelmingly provided by null.



Wow - this was kind of very outch to read. Its not at all just about 'safety' - lets put the most important point out here: There is stuff that we are not supposed to build in certain areas - capitals. There is material that can only be found by mining moons - thus low and null sec. With the complete lockdown of every single valuable moon resource its complete bullshit to talk about something like a free market. Do i have to mention Hulkageddon to raise prices for technetium? So we are not talking about null not being able to participate in a free market but about trying to stop you to eliminate also the last bastion that allows others to participate in.

So i think its pretty natural that if everyone is supposed to have a hard time to take anything in null it should be the other way around as well - thus making logistics a bit harder was a move that many felt was leveling the field and would be seen as incentive to stick to your 'natural' area.

Proud designer of glasses for geeky dovakins

Before someone complains again: grr everyone

Greed is the death of loyalty
CrookedSpike
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#379 - 2014-10-09 22:40:48 UTC  |  Edited by: CrookedSpike
Querns wrote:
Hell, replace the drone damage bonus on the hull with 20% additional jump range per level.


THIS THIS THIS

Edit: a wild progod appears and suddenly, it all makes sense. Therefore, not "this this this".
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#380 - 2014-10-09 22:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: xttz
Medalyn Isis wrote:

So, being able to effortlessly jump all the materials you need from high sec into null sec has nothing to do with the fact that local null sec production never took off?

Do you actually believe what you write, or just propaganda?


Why would the existence of jump freighters have anything to do with the fact that a significant number of absolutely crucial items are simply not locally available in any specific region, and a plethora of others are incredibly inefficient to supply?