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[Phoebe] Long Distance Travel Changes - updates!

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Author
Cr Turist
Arcana Noctis
#341 - 2014-10-09 21:50:39 UTC
+1 to these changes. as much as i dont like these changes to capitals i know they are needed. (i dont like paying taxes but hey it happens) its amazing that you have taken the time and went through what your players have said and let me be the first one to say that you have proven me wrong. i hope this is the new tempo and method for CCP and i personally am looking forward to the upcoming changes.

i was wondering if there was a plan in the works to maybe make a freighter es ship that could be capable of moving rigged ships? i know a carrier serves this purpose for 0.0 and lowsec but it would be cool to have for the highsec bros.

+1 for taking the rorquals drone bonus for a bit of a jump range bonus.
Lallante
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#342 - 2014-10-09 21:51:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lallante
The game still needs a capital class mass-ship-mover without a jumpdrive or the -90% hauler bonus.


Someone over at FHC has done the Maths. This is the effect of nerfing JFs from -90% fatigue to -80%:

Milton Middleson wrote:
a 40LY trip would go from ~25 minutes to ~90 minutes. (And a fatigue decay time of two hours vs ten hours). That seems enough to allow for extended range logistics while making JF something you don't use frivolously.


I think this is a really good idea.


In addition, there needs to be a nerf to station-to-station jumping due to how much this reduces JF risk. Can we make the new minimum range from POS cyno rules also apply to stations?
Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
#343 - 2014-10-09 21:56:02 UTC
Well that is most certainly encouraging. I am very happy you guys listened!

Anything that evens the playing field is good in my book.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

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Odelll
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#344 - 2014-10-09 21:59:36 UTC
I was really looking forward to a new dawn in EvE, yet already CCP is folding.

The changes as they were meant the region of space directly effects what your able to build / field, finally we had a glimpse of space having meaning and may I even dream, an eve world without jita being the continuous feedback loop. As is, this concession will make most of these changes business as usual for most of Null.

TLDR; Stop listening to logistics tycoons, stay the coarse, remove empire trading from the nullsec equation all together and let us truely live in space!

I'm disappointed that you increased the JF range to 10AU
even more disappointed your giving Blops 8AU range + 50% reduction (T3+refit = new meta)

Please go back to shaking up the game, no more easy mode concessions!


MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#345 - 2014-10-09 22:00:58 UTC
As a way to balance super carriers please remove rr bonus and add new ewar mods that fit on dreads that bypass super carriers ewar immunity.

Thanks

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company
#346 - 2014-10-09 22:01:39 UTC
Cr Turist wrote:
i was wondering if there was a plan in the works to maybe make a freighter es ship that could be capable of moving rigged ships? i know a carrier serves this purpose for 0.0 and lowsec but it would be cool to have for the highsec bros.


Concerning your suggestion with the rigged ships and the freighter, that's an interesting idea. I know I would appreciate it while in hisec.

Although I am not entirely sure that is a need. 90% of the time if you're moving a rigged ship in hisec, you intend on using it almost immediately after(Eg, mission running or incursions). As useful as that might be, that might make things a bit OP, and not really a viable option for CCP to focus on.

In Character: Only responds to "Lord Draconis"

Pronounced "Vulzanis"

Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/4fanm8/eve_in_a_nutshell_and_how_to_crack_it/

Public channel: VXV EVE

Twitter: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Vulxanis_Viceroy

Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#347 - 2014-10-09 22:02:15 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Hi everyone,


  • All ships designated as having a "hauling" role in ISIS (ie the following ship groups: Industrial, Blockade Runner, Deep Space Transport, Industrial Command Ship, Freighter) will similarly get a 90% reduction to distance counted for the purpose of fatigue generation. Obviously they can't jump themselves, but this also applies on use of bridges or portals.




I want to emphasise that this can be exploited. Everyone takes an industrial ship, moves to the nearest-to-objective ship cache using the jump bridge network and titan bridges, then reships.

I think this will be really easier than using swarms of jumpclones, especially with the 90% fatigue reduction.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#348 - 2014-10-09 22:04:03 UTC
Camios wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
]All ships designated as having a "hauling" role in ISIS (ie the following ship groups: Industrial, Blockade Runner, Deep Space Transport, Industrial Command Ship, Freighter) will similarly get a 90% reduction to distance counted for the purpose of fatigue generation. Obviously they can't jump themselves, but this also applies on use of bridges or portals

I want to emphasise that this can be exploited. Everyone takes an industrial ship, moves to the nearest-to-objective ship cache using the jump bridge network and titan bridges, then reships.

I think this will be really easier than using swarms of jumpclones, especially with the 90% fatigue reduction.

The battle badger?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#349 - 2014-10-09 22:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Odelll wrote:
I was really looking forward to a new dawn in EvE, yet already CCP is folding.

The changes as they were meant the region of space directly effects what your able to build / field, finally we had a glimpse of space having meaning and may I even dream, an eve world without jita being the continuous feedback loop. As is, this concession will make most of these changes business as usual for most of Null.

TLDR; Stop listening to logistics tycoons, stay the coarse, remove empire trading from the nullsec equation all together and let us truely live in space!

I'm disappointed that you increased the JF range to 10AU
even more disappointed your giving Blops 8AU range + 50% reduction (T3+refit = new meta)

Please go back to shaking up the game, no more easy mode concessions!

Heh heh heh.....

Ah, amazing response. "remove empire trading"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#350 - 2014-10-09 22:06:18 UTC
Camios wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Hi everyone,


  • All ships designated as having a "hauling" role in ISIS (ie the following ship groups: Industrial, Blockade Runner, Deep Space Transport, Industrial Command Ship, Freighter) will similarly get a 90% reduction to distance counted for the purpose of fatigue generation. Obviously they can't jump themselves, but this also applies on use of bridges or portals.




I want to emphasise that this can be exploited. Everyone takes an industrial ship, moves to the nearest-to-objective ship cache using the jump bridge network and titan bridges, then reships.

I think this will be really easier than using swarms of jumpclones, especially with the 90% fatigue reduction.


How exactly is this faster than taking gates in an interceptor?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Andraea Sarstae
Circle of Steel Inc.
#351 - 2014-10-09 22:06:30 UTC
@Greyscale

Until you address the issue of cloaky campers, which I assume you will be doing when you make sov occupancy based, perhaps you should hold off on making Blops more powerful?

One person can shut down an entire system for an indefinite amount of time, because they have the ability to instantly summon X number of their friends to any given situation, kill the target, and get away without a realistic possibility of attacking them back unless someone makes a pretty big mistake.

The only counter is to move or keep combat pilots on standby at all times, which is hardly proportional to the effort put in by the guy doing the camping.

With the kind of power that hot drops can bring, the aggressor should have to pick their targets carefully, rather than just spending hours dropping mining barge after mining barge simply because they can.

The original changes still made them viable, but the jump restrictions made the hunters have to choose targets, rather than just hit everything possible over a large area.

Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#352 - 2014-10-09 22:08:46 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Verskon Qaual wrote:
SOE public relations cycle complete.

Makes null sec life bearable postpatch but still doesn't even attempt to fix the underlying problems with sov, coalitions, or null sec conflict.



You do know other changes are happening, right? This isn't the be all end all?


Time will tell... Sooner or later... Time will tell.
Algathas
Wraithguard.
The Wraithguard.
#353 - 2014-10-09 22:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Algathas
Way to make the updates pointless. I am disappointed in you CCP. You caved in to the whiners. This only serves to nullify any changes to force projection. Why even bother nerfing jump range at all if you can use a hauler taxi to go to your capitals to avoid fatigue. Why even bother manufacturing anything local or trading when you can get everything from Jita.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2014-10-09 22:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Elise Randolph wrote:
Did you like my joke?


On the eighth floor of a Wall Street skyscraper, after a tense meeting involving deadlines for release of a new system that trades trillions of dollars in securities a year, I retold your joke.

Twas awesome and made everyone happier.
Isengrimus
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#355 - 2014-10-09 22:10:08 UTC
These changes are great. Many thanks for taking the playerbase feedback into account and carry on with reshaping nullsec.

Quote:
@Greyscale

Until you address the issue of cloaky campers, which I assume you will be doing when you make sov occupancy based, perhaps you should hold off on making Blops more powerful?

One person can shut down an entire system for an indefinite amount of time, because they have the ability to instantly summon X number of their friends to any given situation, kill the target, and get away without a realistic possibility of attacking them back unless someone makes a pretty big mistake.

The only counter is to move or keep combat pilots on standby at all times, which is hardly proportional to the effort put in by the guy doing the camping.

With the kind of power that hot drops can bring, the aggressor should have to pick their targets carefully, rather than just spending hours dropping mining barge after mining barge simply because they can.

The original changes still made them viable, but the jump restrictions made the hunters have to choose targets, rather than just hit everything possible over a large area.


Hahaha, that's sweet. Well, that's exactly the point - if you, as a carebear, can't get organised to defend your system against possible BO drop, then you will lose it as you should. Changes to BO are still nerfing them too much, but as a compromise, the actual players of EvE (i.e., PVPers) are ready to accept them I believe.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#356 - 2014-10-09 22:13:55 UTC
Hendrick Tallardar wrote:
Kismeteer wrote:
In the past week, from October 2nd, rorquals have been involved in 10 kills on zkillboard.

Obviously, the drone bonus is the reason everyone is flying these goddamn things.

Seriously, does ANYONE there play eve?


I'm sure if you keep accusing CCP of not playing the game, you'll eventually convince them you're right. Keep it up, I'm rooting for you!


His point is valid. Some of the reactions by devs on the earlier thread were highly suggestive that they have a strong tendency to overlook some of the simple mechanics that players use. I believe this tendency stems from failure to communicate with CSM and devs being forbidden from having player characters in null alliances.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#357 - 2014-10-09 22:13:56 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
xttz wrote:
Is anything happening to prevent supercaps being virtually invulnerable on low-sec gates? Currently the only way to tackle them requires a lock, and without non-targeted interdiction they're easily capable of jumping through a gate then jumping out.


Discussing it.


Delay for jump drive after stargate jumps?

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#358 - 2014-10-09 22:14:22 UTC
Fonac wrote:
\O/ yay updates.

First of all, thank you for taking your time to read and reply with feedback, that was very very cool.

1. I still feel the black ops need a smaller fatigue, i realise that they may be used a transportation ship instead of combat, but they have a very high skill requirement, and only a handfull of people can use them.
I've often had to jump several jumps, in order to get to my target, i know i could use gates, and i know that the whole "i'll just jump everywhere fast" mantra has to be nerfed, but still, i'll need to get back aswell. and this will now take hours! (still) Mobility means alot with these kinds of ships.. and even more so, if you use them for pve(which i've done extensively)

2. I actually kinda liked the low range of JF's this ment that 0.0 mining and all the industry that followed, would be viable and needed again. And that those who eventually ventured out and jumped stuff to an outpost, could really make some big isk.
Another little note, is that the fatigue is kinda useless here, since you'll mostly do one jump a day max.
The only real nerf i see here, is for black frog, that does this daily and muliple times a day...

Otherwise everything look good. I look forward to the changes.(ALOT)


Drone Lands need time to adapt to this stuff. We need at least 2 months warning before dropping to 5ly - the N3PL coalition will have to do a ton of prep work and bring in outside parties to make the region viable.
Arizan Holosalintan
Alcoholocaust.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#359 - 2014-10-09 22:15:06 UTC
So a black ops fleet that is running a standing fleet for 6 hours gets to drop 3 times? Is that the deal?
DuckHerder
Duck Unlimited
#360 - 2014-10-09 22:15:08 UTC
With the fatigue bonus to industrials, doesn't this basically undo most of the limitations to sub-cap mobility.

Couldn't people just load up a T1 industrial with a packaged ship plus fittings, take multiple titan bridges to quickly move across the galaxy to a lowsec/npc rally point, dock and fit the combat ship and then do one final non-bonused jump to get to their target.

Yes more titans are needed than currently but that won't be a problem for the large coalitions.

Yes they will still have some jump fatigue to contend with, but not nearly as much. With TiDi in the target system, it could basically only take them a few effective minutes to get there.

Also, the same technique could be used to move around to capital ship caches, though at least the logistics of maintaining these caches may provide some limitation to their use.