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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1901 - 2014-10-01 23:46:32 UTC
BlackMatrix wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
So you guys think this will stop everyone from dropping a fleet on ya ? They wont need to after they control the choke points. Sub-cap fleets again is all it is going to be. The people in smaller alliances with less time will be melted away due to not being able to logistically support their operation. Someone said it will be easier to defend ? Give me a break, you guys will get smashed by sub-cap fleets still. Once they have the area you have no hope of ever getting it again. The big alliances will get bigger and can stop supplies from the enemy in jumping down supplies by controlling the choke points.

The smaller operations that mine, such as myself, logistically wont be able to provide our ore in Jita no longer as there is no way in hell I'm creating more cyno toons for this game. Just let the rest of my accounts go inactive and find something else to do. Seriously it sucks doing logistics as is. Someone at CCP just don't get it. I needed a vacation from this game anyhow.

I represent the small guy in eve, this is fail, believe me.


Yeah it's kinda ridiculous that to do logistics in deep null if you happen to be blocked by a regional gate that is over 5LY you can easily end up going from needing 3-4 cynos in your chain to 8-10. This is an absurd increase and maybe someone at CCP thinks this will drive up subscriptions as you now need 3 more accounts to cyno with but I think it is more likely people will just quit.


You really didnt read the changes. 3 more cynos is not actually even the issue. It would be the amount of time to perform the 3 additional jumped with the cool down.
You'll just have to jump the gate I guess which is the whole purpose.


Whoever jumps a gate with a Rorqual or JF needs to die like they will.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#1902 - 2014-10-01 23:47:19 UTC
Querns wrote:
Has any thought been given to effect these changes will have on the utilization of ice? Even if there is no chilling effect (HAH GET IT ICE) on jumping post-change, the hard limitations on jumps are going to continue to drive isotope usage down. We're already seeing a massive decrease in isotope usage due to Crius' change to POS modules de-emphasizing the number of highsec POS needed, and ice is a significant portion of the ability for low- and null-sec inhabitants to utilize their space. I'm hoping that buttressing isotope usage is part of your plans in the future.


You're kidding right? Because isotope prices went up 50% after they changed jump drive fuel consumption changes. If jump drive usage drops prices might actually return to normal.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Shnougle Elguonhs
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#1903 - 2014-10-01 23:47:31 UTC
This will be the worst change I've seen since joining EvE Online...

NPC Null will be damn near uninhabitable
Day-to-day logistics for sov null will be a nightmare.
You think null is stagnant now? Wait till no one can get ships out of their home region! Or even to their home region for that matter.
Jumping capitals through gates is a joke.

Please do not do this CCP. Please...
Ryk Kion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1904 - 2014-10-01 23:48:18 UTC
Its like the holiday season has come early!
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#1905 - 2014-10-01 23:48:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Marian Devers
Mike Azariah wrote:
Gonna be a bumpy ride.

I will be collecting relevant comments in this small bag over here, tears in the tanker, over there.

m

Oh and if you are quitting may I be the first to ask for at least some of your stuff

tia


CSM pretending they actually listen to forum feedback, or have any influence on CCP. How cute. Hang on to that relevancy as hard as you can!1
Ukiah Oregan
Lithomancers
#1906 - 2014-10-01 23:48:45 UTC
it would be easier to just eliminate jumping altogether. this plan pretty much destroys capital movement. makes logistics a nightmare. how do you expect corps/individuals to move assets as they relocate across eve? taking a month relocate your stock of goods to a new location makes moving prohibitive. this seems like the NERF that beats all previous CCP Nerf's.

you want NULL systems to be more localized and fought over? make them produce enough for a corp or alliance can actually live in system and make money without having to make countless jumps to other systems/sections/regions to make money

8 belts in a system with 2 random rats per belt with 2-8 random spawning scan locations per system doesn't support 1000 people
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#1907 - 2014-10-01 23:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
MASSADEATH wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Summer Isle wrote:
FalconX Blast wrote:
This thread is some of the best content generation to come from CCP :-)
This dev blog has increased the CFC smug to dangerous levels, our egos really didn't need this buff, but thanks! Twisted

CFC / Goon opinions are actually quite split, with some screaming bloody murder and threatening to unsub, while others claiming that it only reinforces their dominance.

to be fair our intelligent enemies are agreeing this reinforces our dominance

it is not just us saying it



Says the goons who have been instructed to "quote"

"When confronting the enemy on the forums, many of whom will be thinking that the CFC will be made less secure by these changes somehow, make sure to adopt a posture of smug satisfaction about the inherent superiority"

this is the actual stuff the metagaming CFC lengths they go too.... its all pure BS

even if the CFC had to eat pure crap... they would put on a **** eating grin, and say it tastes great

you have to understand that they are all controlled and they drink the CFC/Goon coolaid everyday


Yep, you can always count on anything a goon says is a lie, or propaganda, which is one in the same.

Unless it's crying like a little girl. We all love goon tears.
Haraku Haraku
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1908 - 2014-10-01 23:49:59 UTC
Please no troll CCP.

Elo Knight wrote:
You're so dumb, dude.
Pavlakakos
W.A.S.P
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#1909 - 2014-10-01 23:50:45 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Blue donut of entitlement tears = best tears.

You brought this on yourselves.


Sorry bud this will not effect them any. They will now control the choke points and no need to have to have their cap fleet in the outskirts of their area. You guys just don't get how big alliances work. They will work around it, however the smaller alliances will GO AWAY because not being able to logistically support their operations.

Those that think its going to correct large fleets are smoking some good crack.


Well, you're wrong. It will affect them.

Suppose you're a small/medium sized renter living in B8O-KJ - Branch and you're happily ratting, mining with no reds around for the last 6 months. All you have to do is load the JF with the morphite and go sell it in Jita. With the changes, either you have to slowboat 25+ jumps thru the gates or risk weeks of fatigue.

Options? Either lower the rent or totally abandon the place. Definitely a blow to donut wallet.
Dread Nanana
Doomheim
#1910 - 2014-10-01 23:50:50 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
So you guys think this will stop everyone from dropping a fleet on ya ? They wont need to after they control the choke points. Sub-cap fleets again is all it is going to be. The people in smaller alliances with less time will be melted away due to not being able to logistically support their operation. Someone said it will be easier to defend ? Give me a break, you guys will get smashed by sub-cap fleets still. Once they have the area you have no hope of ever getting it again. The big alliances will get bigger and can stop supplies from the enemy in jumping down supplies by controlling the choke points.


Yeah it's kinda ridiculous that to do logistics in deep null if you happen to be blocked by a regional gate that is over 5LY you can easily end up going from needing 3-4 cynos in your chain to 8-10. This is an absurd increase and maybe someone at CCP thinks this will drive up subscriptions as you now need 3 more accounts to cyno with but I think it is more likely people will just quit.


Wormholes! Find them, use them. They will get you around any gate camp and HED-GP.

I suspect CCP will be be stupid and will remap some distances and sprinkle NPC 0.0 making deep 0.0 more accessible.
Turps Drinker
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#1911 - 2014-10-01 23:51:14 UTC
This is the death of nullsec small alliances, areas like Fountain will now be impregnable.

The only way to show our displeasure with how far these changes go is to vote with our feet. 6 accounts and 10toons now unsubbed.

Congrats CCP you just ensured the success of Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1912 - 2014-10-01 23:51:32 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
Will there be some kind of in game tool where you can quickly put in a potential desto and have it tell you what the impact will be on the jump cool down for your clone? Because if you have to use some spreadsheet to do this, it's absurd.

This is actually a pretty valid point. Will there be any way to see in game the numbers before you make a jump or will we have to rely on 3rd party sites/tools to do the maths for us.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Lam Sixteus
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#1913 - 2014-10-01 23:52:08 UTC
Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

Yes localization in NULL is the issue so you are creating more localisation to fix the problem... you guys need to check the oxygen supply in your office at CCP ...!!!

Please consider maintaining the mobility of fleets. To work towards addressing issues with a stagnant NULL a possible approach could be to add a single NPC station in every constellation in NULL. This would allow for various groups small and large the ability to mount strategic offensives and sieges, disrupt trade route, diversify confrontation points, engage in guerrilla warfare, etc, etc... in NULL and challenge the monoliths. For this to happen though effective logistics ability is key. However, if you are bend so hard on making the changes to capital mobility why not restrict those changes to NULL sec only for now.

Another thought would be to make alliance jump bridges across null and low sec, those could be timed for example (24hours) then cool down for a variable period for the bridge points within the specific constellations along the route.

Also if you restricted to 10 the number of corps making an alliance and to 100 the number of corp members, it would make keeping track of blues more difficult. Further being able to set standings only on 1 or 2 other alliances would impede large blobs. Throw some confusion in the mix guys.

In any case, I hope you guys take a few days vacations and breathe some fresh sea air in beautiful Reykjavik and reconsider the worst idea I think to come out of CCP yet. Here is a suggestion for a nice reflective walk Djúpalónssandur Beach

All in good cheers guys and keep up the good work :)
Edgarr Friendly
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1914 - 2014-10-01 23:52:56 UTC
I do love the idea of a capital ship jumping into a gate camp.
Daktar Jaxs
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#1915 - 2014-10-01 23:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Daktar Jaxs
So I feel a bit agnostic about the proposed changes, kind of wait and see how it plays out.

But I would like to see CCP set out some clear metrics for judging whether these changes have a positive or negative impact.

And what will happen if these changes fail to produce the desired results.
Karash Amerius
The Seven Shadows
Scotch And Tea.
#1916 - 2014-10-01 23:53:25 UTC
I think people fail to realize that less mobile fleets mean that fleets are easier to pin down by superior planning and intel. Blueballs are going to suck under the new system, this I agree, but being able to corner a fleet more effectively when all the chess pieces are in place will be more rewarding to those involved.

Looking forward to seeing how things pan out. I personally don't like capitals online, and a bitter vet of the days with battleship fleets actually mattered in Null.

Karash Amerius Operative, Sutoka
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#1917 - 2014-10-01 23:53:29 UTC
Balkanize all the regions.
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1918 - 2014-10-01 23:54:00 UTC
Turps Drinker wrote:
This is the death of nullsec small alliances, areas like Fountain will now be impregnable.

The only way to show our displeasure with how far these changes go is to vote with our feet. 6 accounts and 10toons now unsubbed.

Congrats CCP you just ensured the success of Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen.


Send me that stuff before you go.

Also, if you don't biomass you aren't really quitting. Don't halfass it. Just send me your stuff first.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1919 - 2014-10-01 23:54:16 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The problem of FOrce CONCENTRATIOn (not force projection) is not touched. THe major groups will still be impossible to challenge. Because to challenge them you still need to brign ALL your capitals and they will just brign theirs.. the changes hurt BOTH sides.
well capital balancing aside, if they bring all their capitals to one place, they will not be somewhere else for quite a while. I imagine the closest problem that might occur along those lines is if CFC spilt its forces between areas. Some in the north, some in the middle, and some in the south. Either way you are either dealing with a smaller force or leaving a flank exposed for a decent period of time (I'll be lining up netflix shows for those long treks across space in gates). The jump drive in this new form is now limited to a tactical use rather than strategic.

And on an odd side note, some areas of space that were basically separated from each other capital-wise are now much closer together. Areas like Tenal and Cobalt edge were unreachable to each other are now only a jump away. So more areas are open to vulnerability as some areas are more closed (for example my home region of branch is now much harder to reach from anywhere that isnt the edge of venal NPC).

And the goal of the changes wasn't to make impossible for groups to swing their weight (or just be there first and lock down system by your proposal) it was to limit its instant use and over-use. These changes do that. Though, as a carrier pilot, I'm not to happy about the math behind fatigue. As a rorqual pilot, I'll drop that baby on anything in range now. BATTLE RORQUAL BEST RORQUAL.
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1920 - 2014-10-01 23:54:19 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
Aryth wrote:

It actually works in the opposite way right now. Defenders have a massive advantage with current mechanics. Those who own SOV today and can reasonably respond within a few days can easily hold it if they want.

.


Yep, for now defenders will have the up hand but CCP is just starting to change 0.0 mechanics. Give it time to see what comes next.

For now the renter empires are just dead. The Big renter enthities like NC. and PL just dont have the numbers to be everywhere at the same time.

The CFC alliances far away from the main cluster will also find them selves pretty much alone to face an attack from some other alliances looking to take some land. Today like it is, these 2 situations would be pretty much impossible to happen.


I really don't know why anyone thinks this is true. These changes will not bring that reality to pass. You are correct others coming might. There are mitigation methods to these. Many are already posted. Good luck mitigating mass farmed alts CCP.

I suspect that is their real intentions. Collection of more PLEX.

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.