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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#1841 - 2014-10-01 23:23:58 UTC
MASSADEATH wrote:
Retar Aveymone wrote:
Summer Isle wrote:
FalconX Blast wrote:
This thread is some of the best content generation to come from CCP :-)
This dev blog has increased the CFC smug to dangerous levels, our egos really didn't need this buff, but thanks! Twisted

CFC / Goon opinions are actually quite split, with some screaming bloody murder and threatening to unsub, while others claiming that it only reinforces their dominance.

to be fair our intelligent enemies are agreeing this reinforces our dominance

it is not just us saying it



Says the goons who have been instructed to "quote"

"When confronting the enemy on the forums, many of whom will be thinking that the CFC will be made less secure by these changes somehow, make sure to adopt a posture of smug satisfaction about the inherent superiority"

this is the actual stuff the metagaming CFC lengths they go too.... its all pure BS

even if the CFC had to eat pure crap... they would put on a **** eating grin, and say it tastes great

you have to understand that they are all controlled and they drink the CFC/Goon coolaid everyday



They're playing a game, and it's the same game as you. They're just playing by different rules. I think "Calvinball" would be quite an apt description for all of it.

And, honestly? It's a hilariously-enjoyable game to watch, regardless of which side you're on. The dynamics between all of the entities is incredible.

 Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.
Kriegman
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1842 - 2014-10-01 23:24:11 UTC
Emmy Mnemonic wrote:
The reasons for the changes are understood. But the suggestion of cool-downs for jumping is utterly bad.
What will happen with the joy of playing EVE? I just felt a hopelessness come over me tbh.

I have fought and skilled and worked hard in EVE for 6 years to get my carriers, dread and JF. I have several accounts with cyno alts that are also skilled for other tasks, to enable usage of these jump-capable ships in an efficient way.

Now I will not be able to use said caps, without some intensive excel-sheet-ahead-planning that also has to be synched with IRL-activities with family, friends and job.

There will be no freedom of actions, and thus much of the joy I feel when playing EVE will be gone. Restricted, backbound and controlled by mechanics of the game that impose time-punishments on certain activities makes EVE an even more intense waiting-game...boring! SO BORING!

The joy and freedom of beeing able to log on and not knowing what to do; will I join that subcap strat-op, or the capital op, or should I go roaming with 10 corp mates in sub caps, or should I handle the logistics for some corp POSes/production/market trading or should I fetch that new corp-members ships in lowsec with my carrier...THAT makes me feel joy when I play EVE!

That sunday day that is free for EVE-play which is spent to do the logistics with the JF will now potentially make it impossible to join that unplanned spontaneous capital fleet the night after. I might choose not to. Boring!

That unplanned spontaneous capital fight with dreads that happens out of necessity to protect something valuable will perhaps make it impossible to do that logistics-run later that week. I might choose not to. Boring!

I should not cry "the wolf is coming" but i sincerely fear the wolf IS coming this time!

I pay for 4 accounts, and I have for 6+ years because I can and have a well payed job and an understanding wife that lets me play my little space-pixel game. Never bought a PLEX in my life with in-game ISK!

BUT!

I will not feel any joy waiting for cooldown jump-timers for days while others jump off to some fun cap fight.
I will not feel joy when I have to stand down from something fun because of cooldown jump-timers that will restrict something else later that week that MUST be done with caps.
I will not pay money to play that game that EVE will become with those jump-time cooldown changes!
I will not play that game that EVE will become with those jump-time cooldown changes!
I will find something else to do with my IRL money and time!
I will not care what anyone else sais about what I think in this forum, I will do as I bloody-well decide myself! Big smile

Winter is coming!


Spot on/. The pubbies that never lived in null think this is some kind of "small PvP" salvation. They will still get blobbed by 3-4 full CFC fleets of subcaps or dreads/carriers even if we have to take gates. What this really does is making EVE even more borring waiting simulator.
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1843 - 2014-10-01 23:25:37 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
FYI jump fatigue and jump activation timers will NOT be affected by TiDi. They will also continue running during downtime or while an account is lapsed.


Can we accumulate "jump pep" while our account is lapsed? Sort of like negative jump fatigue? That way we can unsub for a while then come back and play instead of waiting on timers to expire in our game time.

Fine you want to nerf power projection. But why are you doing it by making the game a waiting for timers to expire exercise for your cap pilots?

Making us sit in station for 5 minutes is absurd, let alone 45 minutes or 2 hours or essentially limit us to a few minutes of game play per day.

I'm not alone in being a long time player who only gets to play a few hours a day *at best* and I enjoy logging into to ping'ed fleets and jumping into a battle then jumping out and spending time with my wife and baby.

Now the choice is to log in, jump, spend time with the family, jump, spend time with the family, jump, wait until tomorrow to play again.

My family is definitely winning in this scenario as my time playing eve per day is now about 4 minutes.

But my choice of whether to play eve or play another game is becoming a lot more stark.
Rache Sangfroid
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1844 - 2014-10-01 23:26:20 UTC
Cool

I am looking for a couple of JF characters... Anyone looking to get rid of some?

I like the changes and look forward to actually having to adapt. Future work on the player stargates looks even better now.

The 2 things that might be tweaked is the jump clone limits, there should be a happy medium on that. Also the values for the calculation of the timers might have to be adjusted.

This might make Provi and Stain interesting with more fleets actually going through than jumping in.

I would like to see how R&K changes their drop fleet doctrine. The Smartbombing fleet will change.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#1845 - 2014-10-01 23:26:26 UTC
Will there be some kind of in game tool where you can quickly put in a potential desto and have it tell you what the impact will be on the jump cool down for your clone? Because if you have to use some spreadsheet to do this, it's absurd.
roy oakes
boom boom long time
#1846 - 2014-10-01 23:27:23 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Show me some maths...

Will jumping a capital into a fight for something like a 5 minute triage cycle now ground you in that system unable to get out agin (baring a gate, which is almost certainly suicide).

I also feel that such a significant reduction in range is, as usual, going to hurt the smaller guys who are reliant on individual carriers bringing their ships in and out. I've lost count of the amount of jumps I've done in my time just moving my corps / alliances ships back and forth from low to null.... and usually can't afford or protect extensive cyno chains in between.

Is this 5 LY before or after JDC V?

I also think that anything that involves timers is going to be hugely impacted by TIDI at the destination system.



must create more cyno alts, multi character train and plex them.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/?_ga=1.263942732.1175653019.1457937776
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1847 - 2014-10-01 23:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Levina Windstar wrote:
Wormholes send their regards.


don't worry about them, they will follow their own advice and adapt.Roll

after all isn't adapting good for the soul.

Well, we are now watching others getting a large spiny cactus inserted and it is actually much better.


BoB is pleased.Twisted

something ..something.. poetic justice he was heard to mutter......

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kalissis
#1848 - 2014-10-01 23:27:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalissis
Here is a recap so far for the discussion:


- Add fatigue to normal freighters when they get bridged (very reasonable, should be same as JF)
- Fear of ice prices going down (man up, this is player driven economy!)
- Does this include BLOPS? (yes, read dev post again, it's per pilot, only BLOPS range will be the same)
- Fear of logistics beeing even more boring (sure but it's the main part of beeing a capable force, logistics! So figure them out)
- Lots of joy!
- Lot of tears (especially from the blue doughnut group)

EXTRA:
HowToPowerProjectAfterNovember:

1. Get capital sitters (now called "jumpers") into a chain you like to travel (those can be on the same account as you just need to logout/login later)
2. Initial jump to first chain position
3. change your "jumper" char and jump to next chain position
4. repeat 3 till you are at the end of your chain
5. bring your main by flying there (Inti, blops bridge from start etc.)
6. Profit!!!


@CCP: please add fatigue to capital ships too in form of max pilot changes! (e.g. change pilot wait for the next one X minutes to get out)
Lost touch
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#1849 - 2014-10-01 23:28:07 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
FYI jump fatigue and jump activation timers will NOT be affected by TiDi. They will also continue running during downtime or while an account is lapsed.


Can we accumulate "jump pep" while our account is lapsed? Sort of like negative jump fatigue? That way we can unsub for a while then come back and play instead of waiting on timers to expire in our game time.

Fine you want to nerf power projection. But why are you doing it by making the game a waiting for timers to expire exercise for your cap pilots?

Making us sit in station for 5 minutes is absurd, let alone 45 minutes or 2 hours or essentially limit us to a few minutes of game play per day.

I'm not alone in being a long time player who only gets to play a few hours a day *at best* and I enjoy logging into to ping'ed fleets and jumping into a battle then jumping out and spending time with my wife and baby.

Now the choice is to log in, jump, spend time with the family, jump, spend time with the family, jump, wait until tomorrow to play again.

My family is definitely winning in this scenario as my time playing eve per day is now about 4 minutes.

But my choice of whether to play eve or play another game is becoming a lot more stark.


Use a subcap. Problem solved next

Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
#1850 - 2014-10-01 23:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sissy Fuzz
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Looking forward to getting this significant set of improvements for Nullsec released!

Spare us the spin, CCP Fozzie. Please.

Is it really an improvement? The whole way of thinking is degenerate, CCP. Group of nerds put on their thinking caps to solve 0.0... comes up with a(nother) perversion of game mechanics. The changes seem more and more desparate as you try to compensate for inherent dynamics in a PVP game. People are risk averse and they will stay that way, which is why this proposed change will not "fix" 0.0 at all - no matter what elaborate transformation it may prelude.

Arbitrary and illogical changes in game mechanics are arbitrary and illogical and this particular one is also overly complicated, and as such eroding EVE's believeability. I.e., please explain, in context of the background story, how it can be that capsuleers in JF's experience much less "jump fatique" in their logistics ships than do the pilots of state of the art combat ships? It makes no sense at all and comes across as silly (ridiculous, rather) and just a quick fix.

BTW, if you want 0.0 to change, ban bubbles on jumpgates. That will do it.

Pitch: That is a logical move in line with the expected priorities of CONCORDE and the four empires, they did it with smartbombs. In fact it makes much more sense that bubbles only be used to control movement around assets that can either fight or produce but not on neutral infrastructure. (I know I know, player build JGs are coming, but still). Instead of impairing movement through some twisted and unbelieveable scheme just change the risk profile of travelling in 0.0. Flocks of capsuleers will trickle into 0.0... and attrition ensue.

Just do it. I am right.
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#1851 - 2014-10-01 23:28:08 UTC
I don't have a jump capable ship.

I don't go far into null.

I don't participate in battles.

I can see the sense in the mechanics of this change, but the actual numbers are loopy as hell. I was going to suggest a middle ground for the timers, but that seems insane as well. Two fricking hours to cool down after 3 jumps? That doesn't slow down game play. It kills it.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Ice Dealer
Ice Dealer Corporation
#1852 - 2014-10-01 23:28:13 UTC
Summer Isle wrote:
Ice Dealer wrote:
Summer Isle wrote:
Ice Dealer wrote:
Catt Stevens wrote:
Warning threadnaught reaching critical mass, suggest that all CCP staff evacuate the building
.

It's 23:00 in iceland. I wonder how well CCP employees are sleeping.

And how many blue posts have we had in here today? Like two after the first page?

There were 20 blueposts as of Greyscale's post, here, when he said he was going home.



Hard to keep up. Need "Show all blueposts" button.

If you click on the blue banner on their icon, it'll take you to the next bluepost (just the banner, though, not their actual picture). It makes it quite easy to keep up with the blueposts that way.


JESUS! THANK YOU!
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1853 - 2014-10-01 23:28:18 UTC
Thank you CCP. Thank you for recognizing the sickness in your game and having the strength to excise it.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1854 - 2014-10-01 23:28:59 UTC
MASSADEATH wrote:

Says the goons who have been instructed to "quote"

they say it in this thread you don't have to take my word for it

though now i can't fault you for missing it since it's at 95 pages
Goonads Vyvorant
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1855 - 2014-10-01 23:29:01 UTC
Eigenvalue wrote:



Making us sit in station for 5 minutes is absurd, let alone 45 minutes or 2 hours or essentially limit us to a few minutes of game play per day.

I'm not alone in being a long time player who only gets to play a few hours a day *at best* and I enjoy logging into to ping'ed fleets and jumping into a battle then jumping out and spending time with my wife and baby.

Now the choice is to log in, jump, spend time with the family, jump, spend time with the family, jump, wait until tomorrow to play again.

My family is definitely winning in this scenario as my time playing eve per day is now about 4 minutes.

But my choice of whether to play eve or play another game is becoming a lot more stark.


Just take gates. All your "problems" solved.
Scott132
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1856 - 2014-10-01 23:29:16 UTC
The only people complaining about these changes are the large power blocks that benefit most from long range force projection.

You hardly ever see roaming gangs anymore. Everyone seems to sit on their titans and send out bait.
Or drop 20 supers on a solo Battleship.

These changes will force fleets to travel and run into each other, creating more fights.
Allows small groups to fight without worrying about bat phones and 3rd parties.
Players in sov will have to balance the speed of gates VS the safety of their jump bridge network.

Well done CCP.
More nullbear tears please.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1857 - 2014-10-01 23:29:23 UTC
So you guys think this will stop everyone from dropping a fleet on ya ? They wont need to after they control the choke points. Sub-cap fleets again is all it is going to be. The people in smaller alliances with less time will be melted away due to not being able to logistically support their operation. Someone said it will be easier to defend ? Give me a break, you guys will get smashed by sub-cap fleets still. Once they have the area you have no hope of ever getting it again. The big alliances will get bigger and can stop supplies from the enemy in jumping down supplies by controlling the choke points.

The smaller operations that mine, such as myself, logistically wont be able to provide our ore in Jita no longer as there is no way in hell I'm creating more cyno toons for this game. Just let the rest of my accounts go inactive and find something else to do. Seriously it sucks doing logistics as is. Someone at CCP just don't get it. I needed a vacation from this game anyhow.

I represent the small guy in eve, this is fail, believe me.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1858 - 2014-10-01 23:29:28 UTC
I feel sorry for whoever has to rework the travel algorithms at DOTLAN. Much sympathy.
Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#1859 - 2014-10-01 23:29:40 UTC
This post probably won't be read but I'll put in my 2c:

I like all the changes except for capitals using stargates. I think that's kind of silly both in terms of mechanics and lore. I would have rather seen something like a jump spooler that mitigates the frequent use of hotdrops.
Lost touch
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#1860 - 2014-10-01 23:29:47 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Thank you CCP. Thank you for recognizing the sickness in your game and having the strength to excise it.


Preach!!

Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster