These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
ForceM
POS Builder Inc.
#1721 - 2014-10-01 22:53:54 UTC
My logistics for refueling my posses just went from 1 jump to 3 jump trips 1 way.

Fozzie stated in earlier NERFS that he changed fueling costs of caps (including JF's) was for helping the ice mienrs.
Your now saying this NERF is for power projection.

Both instances clearly mess with jump freighters while there not the issue.
But clearly your NERFING them to hell and back.

Now cause i live in low sec and am on the receiving end of alot of hotdrops i know that the power projection after the fuel NERF was unsuccessfull.
Most (if not all) hotdrops in low sec happen with Black Ops .. but there apearently kept out of (most) of this NERF.

I dont get it ... seriously i dont.

ps.
Still have carriers spare for sale.
Gfy Trextron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1722 - 2014-10-01 22:54:03 UTC
Look I personally don't give 2 craps about null sec (other that it is destroying eve), but these ideas are well i don't want to say terrible, because some have merit.

Would you please please stop doing it wrong?

There are far easier fixes for this, but I still do not see how all this effort in programming is going to make new people to want to play EVE.
B33R
Shadow State
Goonswarm Federation
#1723 - 2014-10-01 22:54:40 UTC  |  Edited by: B33R
imo

instead of doing both jump fatigue and distance nerf at the same time, do jump fatigue first and THEN see if the range nerf is necessary. cause right now, areas in drone lands, branch, period basis, and others that are WAY out are about to become no mans land because very few people are going to want to live out there unless they live in suitcase t3 with cov ops cloak and bubble immunity. mind, an increase to jump fatigue reduction that gets rid of jump fatigue faster then currently advertized may also solve some problems in getting out to the hard to reach places.

while rental empires may crumbal, what is going to keep is charging money for blue setting to the entities who control the entrances to nullsec from highsec. creating another form, if only via being blue, of rental income.

i am aware we are missing info like how the sov system and player made stargates are going to work for a full understanding of how the changes will go together, but just off the top of my head, this is what i see as big problems for nullsec as a whole with your proposed current changes.

edit: if changes are going to go into effect, we will need the ability to redo what stations are where in null, because the station setups are based on the soon to be old sov systems of the past.
Azrael Sheriph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1724 - 2014-10-01 22:54:52 UTC
Pesadel0 wrote:
Actually this idea was in part made by manny , and after thinking about it , it is actually pretty cool.

If you think about it people wont be able to go from one part of eve to the other because they can , now you have to plan you deployments and now small alliances will be able to destruct in your homespace if you arent there , because you cant death clone and cant use your cyno chain to quickly go back to defend your stuff.


With some polishing this is a very good change to null sec maybe now all the super coalitions will start to shatter.


there are these things called stargates and cruisers/interceptors
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1725 - 2014-10-01 22:54:57 UTC
the turnaround time was kind of fast to be in response to the null deal, but the sheer amount of gameplay that has been unlocked makes me think these changes were to satisfy it.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Sigras
Conglomo
#1726 - 2014-10-01 22:55:17 UTC
Hiply Rustic wrote:
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
Zalzakk wrote:
Please give jump freighters same treatment as you gave to black ops, dont nerf their range because it hurts small groups more than large.


ANY change aimed at "making life hard" for a large well organized group will hurt smaller groups more.

How anyone misses that is beyond me...oh, wait, no it's not.

This change is aimed at making holding large swaths of space difficult, and it does a pretty good job at that. It doesnt really affect anyone who controls small amounts of space.
Aleks Cave
TheAuthority
#1727 - 2014-10-01 22:55:28 UTC
I just got off the phone with Hildegard Hjollerborn from Iceland, we spoke about this issue, and he said to me "Aleks, my boy, its all about the pants"

Now I understand this move.

Min Mar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1728 - 2014-10-01 22:55:43 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Min Mar wrote:
I'm sorry to say that you are (once again) penalizing the small entrepreneurial groups with your changes and it's going to kill the game.

My current JF route is slightly over 30 LYs and requires 3 jumps with maximum skills. As I understand it, I am now going to need seven (7) jumps to get to my destination, aside from cool down timers. Please do not tell me to use gates, that is simply absurd since I can't have a subcap fleet with me every time I need to bring fuel/supplies back to null.

I am sure there are many pilots who have to jump even longer distances with JFs and while I understand your logic for trying to slow down bat phone deployments, this change will impact the average null bear in a detrimental way for the game. Why are JFs being penalized in the same way as SCs or caps?

I am afraid that if this change goes through as announced, I'll be looking for something else to do with my spare time. It was fun while it lasted.

You're a logistics pilot. Stop pretending it was ever fun at all. Now, supplying Drones will be impossible at best and torture at worst.


Actually, this is what I liked about this game in the 6 years that I've played it: You can do a lot of different things assuming you have the skills, patience and resources. Logistics is part of life but if you're making it so difficult for the little guy, I'm not going to do it anymore, with all the consequences that entails, both for my accounts and my customers in Null.

For the vets out there who think us n00bs need to HTFU: You do realize that CCP depends on (new) subscriber income and that by pushing away those new subscribers, the game will stagnate and die, right? This is not the way to keep the content fresh. Unless of course you want to keep everyone in High Sec where they could care less about timers and fatigue...
Kiatae
The Fork
Clever Use of Neutral Toons
#1729 - 2014-10-01 22:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiatae
This is giving a blow to small groups and nothing else.
With my JF to get from point A - B i need 2 cyno toons
and soon enough i will need 2 more. So thats another account created right there.
And i live in Curse... What about people in Stain? How many more new accounts is that?
Iff CCP goal here is to get more accounts then please get PLEX price in order.
I am hearing alot of old players allready saying they gonna quit game.
Also one of friends said " What if all players that dont belong to big alliance groups, highs sec players,
NPC and low sec region guys would not log in just for a day? What kind of impact woould that have on game?"
Maybe we "the small people" should just leave the game and let "big boys" play alone... Looks like they dont need us anyways
Kim Briggs
Aurora Armaments
#1730 - 2014-10-01 22:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kim Briggs
I realy like this change, but i'm worried that the long Fatigue Cool-Down could be a huge problem and make people rage quit.
I made a little list, how long you can't jump/bridge/use jb after each jump (if you jump 5 LY and as soon as possible)

http://i.imgur.com/j4uhxO3.png

I think the times getting 'game breaking long', but i can imagine some options:

1.) Make a maximum Cooldown Cap (whatever time seems reasonable)
2.) Some Event resets the Fatigue Cooldown (Maybe downtime, but would make long jumps around DT possible)
3.) Give a warning message how long you can't jump anymore after you jumped (like lowsec warning message)

This should prevent that someone can't use a jump capable ship/JB for 2 years just because he wasn't aware of his rest fatiguefor a brief moment.


Another Question:

How will Charater Bazaar work with fatigue? Can i sell a Titan char who isn't able to jump for 2 years, or has the fatigue timer to be 0 before i can sell my char?
Harvey Skywarker
Higher Than Everest
#1731 - 2014-10-01 22:56:11 UTC
I'm un-subbing all of my accounts , you'll be bankrupt by christmas CCP
Tobias Frank
#1732 - 2014-10-01 22:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobias Frank
-.-
Glen Morange
Perkone
Caldari State
#1733 - 2014-10-01 22:56:26 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Mullethead wrote:
Dear CCP Grayscale.

Please feel free to test this idea by loading up a carrier with some big pile of expensive stuff and fly at least 20 gate jumps through null without being exploded. Pls fraps it for our shared entertainment.

Thanks





Use a jump freighter or blockage runner?

Carriers were never meant to be cargo ships anyway. People will find new solutions.



I want to point out that they are called CARRIERS. As in they carry things.
Unqsapro
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1734 - 2014-10-01 22:56:27 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Andski wrote:
With these changes, the west is practically guaranteed to be held by us until either our organizational structure collapses or the servers die. But apparently it's ~goon tears top kek~
No. You'll be paying the Sov costs for the West forever. PASTA, MoA, BL, Tri and Mortuus will control these regions. They will own the R64s, they will drive out the CFC ratters and if they are really mean, they might install renters in your sov.

With the power projection nerf, you can't just jump around with 50 dreads to RF everything. If you want to RF a MoA tower, you have to come down from your capital in bombless bombers taking gates (taking JB or Blops bridge gives fatigue), shoot the tower, go home via gates. When the timer comes up, you have to come down again in combat ships and you might find the locals deploying a few triage carriers and tracking dreads that you can't counter with 200 supers unless you've been planning the dunk for weeks.

I can't tell how much I love these changes. The CFC is going down!


A tip for the "newbie can't deathjump to Deklein": Let all alliances set a HQ (changeable once a week or if HQ Sov is lost) and players can deathclone to this system. So you can always deathclone home but you can't deathclone away.



Not the shiniest pebble in the pond, are you boy?... If your sexual organs and performances are as small as your brains I can understand your frustration. Thanks for giving us targets though.
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1735 - 2014-10-01 22:56:31 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:

Same goes for all those tasty low sec R64 moons currently help by PL/Goons. They won't be able to protect all of them all the time.


Enjoying trying to get that moon goo to market, through lowsec. Paying everyone in your convoy ops is going to eat into those tasty profits.


Well since PL/Goons won't be hotdropping the convoy without risking more assets, I'll take those chances.

As a nihilist, I feel perfectly content just taking something from you, I don't actually want it for myself. Then I can rinse and repeat with the next person who sets up shop.

You, as the holder have to defend your stuff. I can revel in making you waste time and accrue jump fatique showing up. If you DON'T show up, we pop your tower, scoop what we can carry, and make hilarious gloating posts about your ineffectiveness, thus encouraging others to inflict more damage on you.
Aleks Cave
TheAuthority
#1736 - 2014-10-01 22:56:58 UTC
I wanna see rookie ship improvements!
FalconX Blast
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1737 - 2014-10-01 22:57:13 UTC
This thread is some of the best content generation to come from CCP :-)
This dev blog has increased the CFC smug to dangerous levels, our egos really didn't need this buff, but thanks! Twisted
BlackMatrix
Irrational Tendencies
Darwinism.
#1738 - 2014-10-01 22:57:14 UTC
The changes look great, obviously there are a few things that probably need balancing out.

You should consider looking at:

Fatigue should be capped at a certain level.

Blackops should have different stats.
Glen Morange
Perkone
Caldari State
#1739 - 2014-10-01 22:58:52 UTC
And o7 my jump freighter and thank you to the person who hasn't read this dev blog.
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1740 - 2014-10-01 22:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Evelgrivion
Sigras wrote:

This change is aimed at making holding large swaths of space difficult, and it does a pretty good job at that. It doesnt really affect anyone who controls small amounts of space.


Indeed.

What renters and power blocks don't seem to understand is that Eve Online is suffering, because the power blocks have made themselves the sole gatekeepers for living in nullsec. Their ability to project their will across the stars means you cannot remain in 0.0 space without the blessing of the blocs. That ability to project their will - to project their military power - across the game effortlessly, with minimal expenditure of time, is what bred the stagnation and boredom that permeates null security space in the first place!

Eve Online's nullsec is boring because of jump drives. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. The small groups who wish to exercise military power in New Eden are not the ones who will be suffering from this change. The groups that will suffer are those who want to persist in 0.0 space, while having no will to learn how to fight for it.