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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Aleks Cave
TheAuthority
#1661 - 2014-10-01 22:40:15 UTC
All I see is big alliances cryin and cryin and cryin....

So I assume CCP must be doing something right :)
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#1662 - 2014-10-01 22:40:16 UTC
iskflakes wrote:
Grayscale, are you sure it's a good idea to have an exponentially increasing fatigue timer with only a linear decrease?

If I do 16 jumps I will have a 2.7 million years of fatigue, is that correct?

The fatigue timer should be capped at 15 minutes. It should not increase beyond that. This would be sufficient to prevent people crossing the map and you wouldn't have any "ruined" characters with multiple years of fatigue.

They will most certainly implement some sort of cap.
However 15 minutes would be pretty pointless. That wouldn't stop you from jumping your supercap fleet from one side of new eden to the other to defend a timer.
Glen Morange
Perkone
Caldari State
#1663 - 2014-10-01 22:40:33 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Toriessian wrote:
Thead Enco wrote:
Does this **** include BLOPS?


If I'm reading the changes right and I'm pretty sure I am, this completely destroys the black ops fleet doctrine. After the first BLOPS drop and the return trip you are essentially done.


Oh, man. You'll now have to carefully plan the things you want to drop on? How terrible. I mean, no more 20-blops drop on a small cruiser gang for lulz anymore? Heaven forbid!


I see you want less conflict in Null. PROBLEM ******* SOLVED.
Mijou Star
ICE is Coming to EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#1664 - 2014-10-01 22:41:08 UTC
ziktreyon wrote:
So I understand the idea here, some people might avoid a fight because they know theyre in jump range of someone's capital fleet, "screw this fight," they say, "It would be fun and we could probably take that other fleet but Im pretty sure theyre just going to drop caps on us...lets just go home instead..."

Lets assume that this definitely does happen at least some of the time.
.[/b]



Just getting the top part of you post... But this happens so much it is not funny...
Bella Nias
Doomheim
#1665 - 2014-10-01 22:41:17 UTC
I've been thinking about it and I feel the current solution of the problem is a hard, fast and ugly method. Basically any jumps beyond 3(-4?) are neutered. In any kind of ship. Except the exceptions. I'd prefer a more elegant solution that doesn't bind cap travel to gates. Unless you're with many caps.

Basically the current idea is to limit the jump fatigue to character only. And the only limiting factor is ly jumped. (JF+Rorq excempt).

I'd like to extend this idea: Not only the character is influenced, but also the system. And not only the ly distance count, but also the mass of the ship(s) involved.

How about systems get a jump shock after a cyno field deploys? So if one lone carrier (or any normal cap) jumps in/out, nearly no additional fatigue is gotten. But if a full supercap fleet cyno's in/out, the ripples in space/time make cyno's inherently unstable and take much more out of the pilot to jump to? And where supercaps have a much higher accumulation of fatigue? And JF+rorqs actually don't have armament like the other caps so they can use gate technology to lock on to (partially).

So I'd propose a system wide jump shock index that gets applied to fatigue from jump-in and jump-out. And a mass/type based modifier on ship type (more diversified than the current jf/rorq and rest). Then make the rest time initially slightly bigger and level them out after a day of waiting. A day ought to get the job done too, wouldn't it?

Then black ops are a special category: make it so shield harmonics l2 (covops cloakies) have a *lot* less mass/penalty. Still a pain to get into/ out of a much used jump system, but blops still are very viable. And maybe include jf's. This Will keep smaller entities deep into nullsec viable.

My goals with these proposals are to keep logistics (including those with carrier) viable, but disable mass cap movement. It also fits in much more beautiful with lore and lorebased explanations. Ripples in space/time should effect a system where a dozen titans leave a planetary orbit.

This way it's much more advantageous to spread out cap movement besides gate travel (which should give even more game play opportunities) or enable lone caps to move relatively easy (also better targets).

To wrap this up I'd like to give an example: Bobby tables and mama tables each are part of a different fleet of caps. They both want to get somewhere and are friendly to each other. Mama tables uses a couple of jumps to skip long ways around certain choke holds. Bobby tables decides to use a system that's already been used by by mama. Now it's like they run into a wall. The system is still in shock and really messes up bobby tables' plans to help mama. Now for want of bobby tables fleet the whole battle was lost.

In the end I'd like to ask one more thing: keep diversification between jumpranges of different ships - it adds a flavour to the game and makes people think. It's like having people with jdc3-4-5 in the same fleet...
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#1666 - 2014-10-01 22:41:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Nope, defense fleet forms, warps to Titan, jumps to ratter cyno BECAUSE RATTER IS IN RANGE.

Nothing changes except the guys trying to attack the big guys have trouble calling in THEIR back up when things go boobs up (like the epic battles of the past).


You are not getting it. The big alliances rent out areas of space FAR, FAR AWAY from their capital ships. That's why they have sprawling rental empires, as they are able to scramble their capitals on 5 minutes notice to any corner of their space. Now they will either need to keep a cache of capitals in every Eve forsaken area (impractical), and even then they have to burn over in intys or they will need to install jump clones (and how many can you install already?). That's the whole point here - Goons, et al, don't have capitals in range of their exotic areas - hence their plan to burn over in megathrons, cruisers or what not - which is fine, but they will end up the ones at a local firepower disadvantage.

And their renters are staggeringly incompetent, so don't look to them to figure out how to fend for themselves. Their reaction on getting hit by MOA, etc... is to 1) die, and then 2)scream for help from the Goons.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1667 - 2014-10-01 22:41:33 UTC
Not giving an attacker something to attack, while at the same time nerfing one of his most powerful attack vectors and massively buffing the defenders position relative to the attacker in the new meta. Exactly the opposite of what was needed.

Really really sad.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1668 - 2014-10-01 22:41:38 UTC
Scarlet Intelis wrote:
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:
Heat-seeking Moisture Missile wrote:
Knerf wrote:
Sooo basically every major alliance will pick their entrance system to live in so they are close to resources. Any alliance that wishes to have sov has to get past those powerhouses hugging high sec?


definitely a concern.


Take WH's behind them. Make them jump to deal with your moderately sized fleet.

Then attack the staging system while they are stranded with timers.

After these changes they can't be everywhere at once. Make them choose what to hold, take what they won't or can't defend.


XDXDXD I love how people seem to think this is going to change the map in any way. Flipping Sov takes time derpderp. It doesn't matter where you attack they'll have days to prepare to defend it. Blob Online is still Blob Online.


It won't. All it will change is the number of subbed capital and cyno alts. I'd be genuinely surprised if they haven't run this by the CSM.
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1669 - 2014-10-01 22:41:39 UTC
Gerrin Deveroux wrote:
Well thanks for the 10 years CCP, your about to effectively kill nullsec.

Did Blizzard buy you out overnight or what?

So long and thanks for all the fish.





The volume of tears from Renters and sovereign blocks tells me everything I needed to know; this is the right change for Eve Online.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#1670 - 2014-10-01 22:41:39 UTC
I waited a while to see how it will go. Hah.

CCP you have gone full ballistic insane.

First wormhole mass based spawn distance and now this. At this rate I don't even give eve a year to its inevitable death.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#1671 - 2014-10-01 22:42:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Schmell wrote:
Oh well, another thing just came up.

Apparently you can now roam with carrier, like nidhoggur, which makes around 500m/s on mwd, and with proper fit and implants can warp at 3.89 au/sec (which is higher than warp speed of CRUISERS, not even mentioning lovely handicapped battleships). How the hell you are supposed to counter that in SMALL scale engagements?


I'm already EFTing a Nano-Nid!!!!!

ask the wormhole people. They already have to use such abominations since the last patch.
Bort Malice
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1672 - 2014-10-01 22:42:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Bort Malice
Aleks Cave wrote:
All I see is big alliances cryin and cryin and cryin....


Evelgrivion wrote:

The volume of tears from Renters and sovereign blocks tells me everything I needed to know; this is the right change for Eve Online.



You two clearly arent looking hard enough

The only losers here are the little guys

The Alliances positions are, if anything, more solid.
Itachi XIII
Academy of Arms Distribution and Manufacturing
#1673 - 2014-10-01 22:42:26 UTC
Aleks Cave wrote:
All I see is big alliances cryin and cryin and cryin....

So I assume CCP must be doing something right :)



it afects all allainces that live in nul and low. and 50 dolars for subscription i pay 20 euros wich is more then your curent 20 dolars anyways :P And soon you might have to cos of the unsubs :)
Patty Loveless
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1674 - 2014-10-01 22:42:46 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:

We're offering a way for any entity to get into 0.0 and do whatever they want (except make supers). How come these areas aren't already bustling with content? We have no rules that prevent any renter from going on roams and shooting neuts or reds.


So they can't build ships to strike out on their own and you've made everything for a couple regions blue around them. Then wonder why there is no content?
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#1675 - 2014-10-01 22:43:20 UTC
Soridar Ravencroft wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


More than enough time for all the ratting carriers to be reduced to rubble, and the MOA folks to be long gone. 20 minute trip by megathrons >> 1 minute deployment by cyno.

So who exactly is going to pay rental fees to you if you are going to be completely unable to protect them?


Implying that we protect dumb renters ratting in carriers now.


Ok fine....if they are willing to pay you just for the right to farm, with no involved force projection or protection, then you can carry on. But I think part of the expectation of renters is that the sov holder takes action to make the rented area safe, including hotdropping when necessary. The goons definitely made defense fleets to hunt down MOA. These changes make it a lot more painful to move around, and will at the very least force the renters to more actively protect themselves, putting downward pressure on the rental fees, and somewhat financially harming the large nullblocks.


We hit MOA for reasons other than renters. In all likely hood, had you not been trying to drop in Dek and just hit renters, you might still have a home there. But as you couldn't control the urge to smack the beast on the nose, you then got bit, chewed and shat out.


Goon always talk tough when they drop on someone 10 to 1, but 5 to 1 they get spanked and "it's not fair, we tried to crash the node, give us our ships back" booohooo.

Oh, you in range to protect those renters?
Kruger Ellecon
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#1676 - 2014-10-01 22:43:56 UTC
WOW! You guys are trying really hard to kill this game and with this change I think you just may do it. Who ever came up with this idea should be fired on the spot. This is not some module tweak your talking about this is changing the entire mechanics of the game that makes the game what it is. I will bet you lose half your subscriber base over this HUGE change. I for one pay for like 3 accounts every month, I know that isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things but i would bet you will be losing a lot more subscriptions than mine. I guess its time to start looking for another game to Play!
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#1677 - 2014-10-01 22:44:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:
MASSADEATH wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Veers Belvar wrote:


Ok fine....if they are willing to pay you just for the right to farm, with no involved force projection or protection, then you can carry on. But I think part of the expectation of renters is that the sov holder takes action to make the rented area safe, including hotdropping when necessary. The goons definitely made defense fleets to hunt down MOA. These changes make it a lot more painful to move around, and will at the very least force the renters to more actively protect themselves, putting downward pressure on the rental fees, and somewhat financially harming the large nullblocks.


We use fast cruiser gangs, if someone tries to take sov we deploy the main fleets. This isn't going to be hard to adapt to.



AND ohh noos the locals drop a carrier fleet on you.....since they are local and you all die... sound familiar ? It should...its what you do to us everytime we catch a good target....




Exactly. Now instead of being able to scramble the full Goon fleet on top of you within 5 minutes, they will need to fight you with whatever they have locally and some fast warping cruisers. If you plan it out and have some big ships on the scene, you will actually have the heavier firepower in the engagement. Instead of the Goons being able to project their entire fleet into each system, they will need to learn to fight back with a limited local defense fleet.


Nope, defense fleet forms, warps to Titan, jumps to ratter cyno BECAUSE RATTER IS IN RANGE.

Nothing changes except the guys trying to attack the big guys have trouble calling in THEIR back up when things go boobs up (like the epic battles of the past).




wrong...cause we will know what systems are in range of thier "local" forces...and stay just out of range of those... already planning what systems are 5ly+ away to start the attacks, if it holds it gives us a 11min window to kill things approx

we already watch their Titans and how many are ready to bridge....only this time we know either they will be out of range...or know it will take a fixed time to reach the engagement.... of which we can plan around...

its PURE GOLD


Aleks Cave
TheAuthority
#1678 - 2014-10-01 22:44:29 UTC
Well, i cant really fly caps, but all I can say is, I like the new cloaking effect
HED KANDIR
Y U SO BAD GIT GUD
VYDRA RELOLDED
#1679 - 2014-10-01 22:44:53 UTC
http://clip2net.com/s/j0NLrH

are u sure it is right to make this? Straight
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1680 - 2014-10-01 22:44:54 UTC
Scarlet Intelis wrote:


XDXDXD I love how people seem to think this is going to change the map in any way. Flipping Sov takes time derpderp. It doesn't matter where you attack they'll have days to prepare to defend it. Blob Online is still Blob Online.


I didn't mean to imply anything about taking sov. You don't need to change the map to make ISK off the back of occupied goons.

All this talk of super caches is pointless when someone only has to wait until you are tied up with multiple POS timers to defend. You can't jump to all of them.

Same goes for all those tasty low sec R64 moons currently help by PL/Goons. They won't be able to protect all of them all the time.

Wherever gaps open, there will be people eager to inflict some loss and take whatever isn't bolted down. This is New Eden after all.