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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Author
Yogsoloth
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#1241 - 2014-10-01 21:00:28 UTC
These are all great changes.

It'll make it harder and less desireable for the mega blocs to hold onto soo much space.
It'll force people to spread out and occupy the space they want to hold.
It'll bring alot more small scale capital fights to lowsec and really alot of these otherwise empty pockets of space.
It'll bring new entities to otherwise unoccupied areas of null.
It's already created more tears than I can consume.

Sooo gud.

flakeys
Doomheim
#1242 - 2014-10-01 21:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
bp920091 wrote:
Lord Mantus wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. We are going to look at this tomorrow to try and make this easier.



Basically we didn't fully think of all the things this would effect before suggesting it, but who cares.


Boldly going where no man has gone before!



Yeah god forbid the newbs have to try 3 times to get passed that one gate camp and loose a whooping 10 M due to clone and shiploss .We all know that after the entry pipe the rest of the trip no matter how many jumps is peanuts for the last 6 years.


The reasons stated why this can't/shouldn't be done from the players only shows CCP is actually finding where they went wrong over the last years and it looks like they are cleaning out those wrongdoings one by one now.Don't remove the ships you added just remove the abilities they shouldn't have to begin with.

Looks to me like CCP finally got it back on track , verry anxious to see the next change proposals.

The only thing i do disagree with is the new effect on JF's , they could loosen that one up a bit .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.

Ralitge boyter
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1243 - 2014-10-01 21:00:48 UTC
Soridar Ravencroft wrote:
OK...I know I don't always see the big picture in some issues, but as a cap pilot who actually uses my ships for basic moving, deploying of ships for diff PvE and other basic goofy null sec crap, THIS IS TOTAL CRAP...

This is a complete farce, and one in which it seems that the Devs responsible are either not cap pilots or just don't do anything other than point a..b..c..home and log, so they don't even have an iota of a clue as to the rest of the players they are screwing. These proposed changes are gonna hit the non sov aspects of EvE 1000% more than they will have any effect on sov warfare. I will break this down by points to clarify.

Effects on Joe the non combat cap pilot vs Sam the combat jockey:

Joe is always making jumps in his jump freighter to move and restock null while bringing goods from null to be traded in the hubs
Sam makes a max of 5 jumps a day...if there is a combat op at all

Joe not only has a JF for trading but enjoys a side business of transporting the ships of some friends for PvE goofyness like incurtions and such
Sam flies an interceptor looking for kills while not running his daily cap op, or just gate camps

Joe having one of the few JFs in his corp is called on for running POS fuel, moduals and system upgrades because no one else trained for it cause they wanted combat ships
Sam doesn't worry cause dreads are never needed for moving crap

Joe goes on cap ops when ever he is free to do so in his carrier
Sam goes on every cap op in his dread

This is a generalist look at how 2 cap pilots play the game, and while it doesn't represent everyone, it does fit a lot of pilots and how they play. So in the end what you really have is not nearly the nerf to combat projection but rather a significant nerf to trade, general game play and logistic capabilities.

If you really want to fix long distance force projection and the way in which capital ships are able to move and fight, then rather than some BS fatigue a pilot receives that changes a "jump cool down" instead have it effect combat skills and capabilities of the actual force being projected. I mean seriously, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if you wanna effect how combat is controlled you penalize the combat skills.

Penalizing jumping itself does nothing other than break down the ability to travel, for good or ill, which last time I heard is not really the real issue here. This seems more of an arbitrary step in reducing and removing capital ships from the field which will not happen as those alliances and coalitions which the numbers and resources will instead just move capitals in anyways. Pilots rarely pay for the fuel for these campaigns, but rather the alliances themselves, which means costs of travel is rarely a concern for major powers.

The real issue here is that forces can stage from nearly any place in EvE and with a proper chain get to anywhere in a matter of tens of minutes, but that means rather little, as Interceptors can do the same and even do so safer, if not faster. So what really is of concern is what kind of power projection can be applied at long range. This is the real issue and should be what is effected.

The way this can be done is to have fatigue effect combat skills, especially those that are based on PvP combat. This ensures that no matter the size of your pilot base or your wallet, that force projection is weakened. Secondly it prevents other areas of the game that are NOT out of balance to be penalized due to bad planning. Third it doesn't effect pilots who where out doing basic trading, logistics and ferrying friends, when the call goes out that you are needed for an op.




I think you have a point in that the JF pilots are hit quite hard by this. On the other hand is that so bad?
It means fueling vast numbers of towers all over enormous swaths of space is going to be difficult. Thats not a bad thing in my book.

Making it harder to transport large amounts of material into deep 0.0 means simply that one will have to create a viable industrial base there with only the occasional move of goods in our out of your power base. This prevents over production will increase the risk to the pilots as they will need to move more goods the slow way and will therefore lead to more conflicts which is what the game is all about.

For me the only thing that I hear is I have a comfortable life the way I am now living therefore I want nothing to change and my near static income from jumping between a few cyno alts for a few minutes a day to continue fueling my ability to loose interceptors when PvP'ing.
EVE is hard it is supposed ot be that way, loss is something that is good and that will just force people to come up with more creative and better ways of dealing with the risks involved.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#1244 - 2014-10-01 21:01:04 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Will cyno jammers stop caps jumping in through your gate?


Nope, that's what bubbles are for.


bubbles have one hell of a less hp than a jammer has. will bubbles / T2 have their hp's increased in order to compensate for the increased speed an attack on a system can be introduced
infact with carriers/ supers, there will be very little need for a subcap fleet to enter a system first to kill the jammer, just jump in the supers and pop the bubbles with fighters in a few seconds, then siege away at the system
Vertigo Sunji
Doomheim
#1245 - 2014-10-01 21:01:12 UTC
Can't wait till the news of more dev layoffs reaching us, because this is going to cost you many many accounts.

I agree something has to change, but this is just plain ********.


Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#1246 - 2014-10-01 21:01:19 UTC
Ding ding ding. History class is now in kids.


Did you know that Goons, BoB and ASCN. Had stupid huge e.pires before super caps, jump bridges and hot drops? How many years did they hold territory?

These people became big because they worked as a team. For logistics, for building and conquering. So you caps are getting nerfed. You have one month to use your brains to find a solution around this. Maybe like do the pony express and have one jf jump into system, trade with a lerson in their alliance and make the next jump doing a series of chain jumps to make the delivery.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Soridar Ravencroft
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1247 - 2014-10-01 21:01:22 UTC
Jokku wrote:
Only boots on the ground can hold land. Should be no different in SOV. Your high ends are up for grabs!...... UNLESS you're willing to leave a defence force in that area. Looking forward to having my end of space again!

B R A VO CCP!



lol... It is this kind of blindness that keeps pilots for keeping Sov. If you really think the major players in null care about higher fuel costs or deploying anywhere at anytime, you are a fool. What really is gonna happen is the smaller groups will have less pilots who are willing to deal with the hassles of moving your trade goods and forces around when you don't have the pockets the major groups do.

So in the end you will come out, steal a system or 3 while we decide what to do and take the time to move, and then we crush you and you have NO WAY TO RESUPPLY cause you have small pockets and now your alliance has basicly been crushed.

That is the truth of this, it is a solidification of the power and Sov of null. Why do you think the major leaders like this idea while the grunts of null oppose it.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#1248 - 2014-10-01 21:01:42 UTC
Balzaamon wrote:
Jump Freighters with 5LY limit? Really?

How someone, who lives in Stain will get to Jita with no docking rights in Catch/Providence???

Simple: he dont get to Jita with 5LY JF.
Oh wait, he can jump to system on route and dont dock, wait to cool down timer on cyno, but wait, theres no cloak on JF...

Also it affects other frontier regions like Period Basis/Feythabolis and many more.

Another knife in the back for smaller alliances without sov, keep it up.

Don't live in Stain then if you don't like it. There are plenty of other NPC null regions within 5ly jump range of Empire. Atm Stain is barely reachable anyway barring a couple of chokepoints.
AthlonJedi
Diabolical Dominion
#1249 - 2014-10-01 21:02:05 UTC
Well, This is going to cause a lot of headache at first but...anyone leaving eve over this Just contract your stuff to me , Ill gladly take it and use it in your honor!!!!


Oh Ill also take your Isk since you wont be needing it.....

Bort Malice
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#1250 - 2014-10-01 21:02:22 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Joshua Foiritain wrote:
So many tears :D


Tears?

I am well equipped, funded and supported with ample assets all over New Eden already. Moving around is not an issue for me, no tears

Organized people in large numbers, who communicate well, can do anything with resources and a solid logic train. The CFC has all of the above in ample supply. Moving around will still not be an issue, no tears.

Making things harder by changing a number on a modifier can be easily overcome with all of the above.


The only people these changes will hurt are those who have nothing to do with SuperCap fleet actions in the first place

Bei ArtJay
Side Kicks
Unspoken Alliance.
#1251 - 2014-10-01 21:02:40 UTC
Only 64 pages so far? Pfff you whingers are not trying hard enough.
Giuseppe R Raimondo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1252 - 2014-10-01 21:02:45 UTC
please don't make Jump fatigue affect blops BS. Blopsing ops will be boring as ****. Blops Bs are suppost to move fast , in and out
Prt Scr
569th Freelancers
#1253 - 2014-10-01 21:02:51 UTC
it is late, I am half drunk and just read the blog, did I miss-read between the lines, but there will be changes to interdictors? As cap ships are being able to use the gates, is it a limit on bubbles dropped or will you need heavy interdictor with script to stop a cap ship? Or am I just more paranoid then normal?

uɐıssnɹ pɐǝɹ ʇ,uɐɔ ı ʇnq ʎɹɹos ɯ,ı

Arec Bardwin
#1254 - 2014-10-01 21:03:01 UTC
Destoya wrote:
CCP you're 6 months early.

April 1 is when youre supposed to announce stuff like this
May I suggest an alliance name change? How about Endemic Legion?
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#1255 - 2014-10-01 21:03:27 UTC
Bort Malice wrote:
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Joshua Foiritain wrote:
So many tears :D


Tears?

I am well equipped, funded and supported with ample assets all over New Eden already. Moving around is not an issue for me, no tears

Organized people in large numbers, who communicate well, can do anything with resources and a solid logic train. The CFC has all of the above in ample supply. Moving around will still not be an issue, no tears.

Making things harder by changing a number on a modifier can be easily overcome with all of the above.


The only people these changes will hurt are those who have nothing to do with SuperCap fleet actions in the first place


Orly? Then why are there so many PL bears crying here?
Groperson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1256 - 2014-10-01 21:04:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Groperson
Liking the changes, I'm suggesting a few tweaks to round them off.

1. You get less than the full amount of cooldown/jump fatigue (half, 2/3?) for jumping between places in the same region, however when you cross a region boundary by gate or jumping you get a (24 hour/48 hour/ however long) debuff that gives you full jump cooldown accumulation/jump fatigue.

So if 2 alliances are in the same region and want to fight each other there they aren't crippled by their jump cooldowns, but if they want to project power outside of that pocket region they have to endure the full jump fatigue.
It's less of a nerf to using Jump bridges in your own space, and your space only. So day to day life living in your own region is affected less, whilst if you want to use that bridge to project power outside of the region you're in then you get hit with the full jump cooldown accumulation.


2. Setting an upper limit on the jump cooldown/fatigue. A week should be long enough to be meaningful but not long enough to be obnoxious.

3. Allow alliances to set a home system where they can always deathclone to, however it can only be used if you have no jumpclones. It allows newbies to get to their home space and adds an option for when people REALLY need to get home, if they're willing to destroy their jump clones then they can hop straight back home Twisted
It's acts a reset button so people aren't stuck in the middle of nowhere if they want to get back home. And gives a meaningful choice to the decision of whether or not to bounce back home instantly, since it destroys the spread of jumpclones you've built up.
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1257 - 2014-10-01 21:04:19 UTC
Alice LaMarke wrote:
So lets see, there is a possible fight happening in neighboring region 25 jumps away, lets spend two hours moving subcapital fleet in TiDi there, the fight in the end doesnt happen, lets spend two hours going back.

So what happened there?

You have three hundred annoyed, bored players that spent their whole evening doing nothing interesing or fun. Lets do that again in two weeks.

Fixing supercapital power projection by f*****g over everyone in nullsec is not the way.

Seriously, this devblog feels like highschool essay that must have atleast ten pages, done by fifteen year old, high on weed and their sixth redbull at three in the morning on the deadline day about a topic they saw one tumblr post about.


If those 25 jumps away aren't your territory maybe you should, oh I dunno, not give too much of a **** what is going on there and instead worry on a more local level...

That is of course unless said fight 25 jumps away happens to be of a great significance. But then again, if it was then odds are that you would have enough time reaching it anyway and that it would actually take place.
FusionProGamer
Universal Fleet Operations
#1258 - 2014-10-01 21:04:20 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
FusionProGamer wrote:
CCP you do know that this will only hurt small groups as much if not more then large ones right?

Yeah, not getting dropped by PL supers that were half a galaxy away a few minutes ago is certainly going to hurt small entitys.... Roll



Yeah cause the carrier pilots that keep the small corps and alliances running will certainly have the will, funds and time to fight through these changes? Honestly the small groups will be unable to keep up because long consistent jumps will make it impossible to ship goods despite the JF changes. Also large alliances will just increase logistic man power if you have 10 guys running the route it took 2 guys to do the effects of the changes become near pointless for them. A small alliance cant do that. They simply don't have the man power.
Migui X'hyrrn
No More Dramas Only Llamas
#1259 - 2014-10-01 21:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Migui X'hyrrn
http://i.imgur.com/eP7Dfq4.png

CCP how are you going to live there, for example.

Best place to rat with supers though.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1260 - 2014-10-01 21:04:26 UTC
Prt Scr wrote:
it is late, I am half drunk and just read the blog, did I miss-read between the lines, but there will be changes to interdictors? As cap ships are being able to use the gates, is it a limit on bubbles dropped or will you need heavy interdictor with script to stop a cap ship? Or am I just more paranoid then normal?


I can see gates being bubble spammed to extremes as a normal thing rather than the moderate exception is is now - and even if they put limits on that its still going to make any kind of regular null travel a complete pain.