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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7361 - 2014-10-07 03:44:32 UTC
this thread still going? lol
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7362 - 2014-10-07 03:59:27 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
this thread still going? lol


Suprisingly yes it is, but at this point the dam has closed the tear spill gates and its reduced to a steady trickle from players seeing this blog late or trying to push new ideas / responding to old ones / general trolling / "I Quit because crybaby".
its just got the silver and is going for gold,

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7363 - 2014-10-07 04:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Please go for this:

(before skills)

2.5 LY - dreads, titans
3.0 LY - carriers, supers
3.5 LY - BLOPS
4.0 LY - Rorq, JF

This will keep logistics alive.

Another idea is to add boosters that add to the range of Rorq and JF (when they work).

The Rorqual and JF are getting a 90% bonus. Logistics is hardly dead. And if the Rorqual is going to enjoy the benefit of being a logistics ship, as others have said, it should have it's combat capabilities nerfed really hard.


They're getting a 90% bonus to fatigue. I could care less about fatigue. I am smart enough to only need a logi run every couple of weeks. But the range nerf is intolerable. I only have enough cyno alts for 6 jumps. Sorry but I am not taking a 7 billion ISK JF with cargo through gates. And with a 5 LY range I can't get anywhere. It just doesn't work. I'm taking a good hard look at a long life in low sec to be honest.


Have you considered that the idea is for the Logistics to take days not hours like it does now?

Think of it like ordering something from say Amazon, it doesn't get to your house in a few hours unless you live next door to the shipping dock it came in on and it went straight to you from there. With this initiative the idea is for logistics to be possible but to take substantially longer like the package that will take days to get to your home. now your jump freighter might take 2 days once you cool down your fatigue and move cynos, maybe a week at the most if you live way out there. Consider more cyno alts the version of "Priority Shipping" since theoretically you can take even more time off your trip.

People have run the calculations, its all still possible, CCP just wants to make people work for their lifestyles now where before there was complacency and lazyness. Were trimming the fat by putting people on the treadmill, and its going to burn at first until you lose the excess and get back into shape for it. But once your in shape for it, that run will be a cakewalk and you will be used to it. Some people wont make the run, theyll just continue on with their complacency and lazyness or move to closer regions so they dont work as hard.

But i can tell you from experience both in EvE and in real life, you have to burn some to earn some.

( and yes i lived in Null sec I know how much logistics means, Stain if you were wondering )


I am perfectly happy about the idea of logistics taking days, not hours. I am not happy about having to open more accounts for more cyno alts. I won't do this, BTW, I will just stop doing logistics first. And I will not go through the effort of jumping my cyno alts through 20 gates every time I make a trip. And I am not happy about taking a JF through gates. I won't do this either. I will just stop doing logistics first. I'll gladly accept whatever jump fatigue I get and will wait as long as I must. But I won't make the annoying routine of logistical supply twice as annoying. I will stop. I will base in low sec where I don't have to light 10 cynos to get stuff to and from market. And I am not talking about Omist or anything. I am talking about what should be the simple task of getting stuff to immensea.

CCP is talking about soft controls influencing player behavior. If their soft controls are making twice as many jumps and jumping through gates, I won't do it.

Especially when this has nothing to do with combat force projection and has nothing to do with big blocs teleporting around the map. It's merely about an annoying part of the game becoming twice as annoying.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7364 - 2014-10-07 04:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/I-ME3L

Let me tell you a story about I-M. there is a group who lives in that system that tends to punch way above there weight class in eve. Their name is COVEN. If you look at Dotlan maps there is a r-64 in that system worth 3-6 bil a month in moon goo. How do I know this well i was siphoning it until the big boys figured out a way to detect siphons by using the api. Coven would clean out the siphon in the eastern bloc TZ and I would do it during the US TZ. At one time we had 3 siphons running. To make life easy on us Coven would en-caps the guns and all models around the POS.

Coven occupies that system and yet does not own the moon. I have seen numbers as High as 150 characters in local at times living and using the system and yet they don't own the moon. This is due to the ability of the moon holder to drop supers and carriers to fix and repair the guns and tower every time COVEN hits it. I have watched this cycle happen over and over for the last 7 months.

After this patch I promise you that moon like this and many more will be claimed and retaken by the people who live in that space. For those who are saying this will hurt the little guy you are wrong. An income of 3-6 bil a month for the little guy is a lot. The sad part is if they would have made siphons as they promised moon goo would be flowing to all size corps and alliances. Groups who care to live in and occupy the space will no longer have to fear the "Waking of SMOG". CCPGrayscale if he doesn't flinch has just shot an arrow to the one soft spot in the dragons armor.

It is going to take time to start little fires all over eve again. For the next 2 months I think i will fly around and pot shot CSAA towers just to send mails to the owners letting them know the little guy is watching and share the location of them on Reddit LOL. Unless someone can send me some intel on locations and save me some time. Man i never thought that "Ding DONG Ditch it" training would com into practice.

Stay the course Greyscale role it out as is and let see what happens.

Black
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7365 - 2014-10-07 04:22:59 UTC
If you've grown so complacent you wont take a cyno alt through a gate then you dont deserve to stay in null after these changes. Out in null you make ISK hand over fist every day in relative safety if you watch intel channels and local chat. Now suddenly because you dont want to do the work to make the same amount of ISK you threaten to leave it all behind, hate to tell you thats exactly what i was talking about with trimming the fat on the treadmill.

The lazy ones who wont even move cyno frigates through gates or find ways to make their logistics easier without more alts and within applied game mechanics are the ones that CCP wants out of null sec. And if people are threatening to leave or quit its working as intended.

Welcome to the New Null Sec, Enjoy your stay ( or lack their of )

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7366 - 2014-10-07 04:24:55 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Please go for this:

(before skills)

2.5 LY - dreads, titans
3.0 LY - carriers, supers
3.5 LY - BLOPS
4.0 LY - Rorq, JF

This will keep logistics alive.

Another idea is to add boosters that add to the range of Rorq and JF (when they work).

The Rorqual and JF are getting a 90% bonus. Logistics is hardly dead. And if the Rorqual is going to enjoy the benefit of being a logistics ship, as others have said, it should have it's combat capabilities nerfed really hard.


They're getting a 90% bonus to fatigue. I could care less about fatigue. I am smart enough to only need a logi run every couple of weeks. But the range nerf is intolerable. I only have enough cyno alts for 6 jumps. Sorry but I am not taking a 7 billion ISK JF with cargo through gates. And with a 5 LY range I can't get anywhere. It just doesn't work. I'm taking a good hard look at a long life in low sec to be honest.


Have you considered that the idea is for the Logistics to take days not hours like it does now?

Think of it like ordering something from say Amazon, it doesn't get to your house in a few hours unless you live next door to the shipping dock it came in on and it went straight to you from there. With this initiative the idea is for logistics to be possible but to take substantially longer like the package that will take days to get to your home. now your jump freighter might take 2 days once you cool down your fatigue and move cynos, maybe a week at the most if you live way out there. Consider more cyno alts the version of "Priority Shipping" since theoretically you can take even more time off your trip.

People have run the calculations, its all still possible, CCP just wants to make people work for their lifestyles now where before there was complacency and lazyness. Were trimming the fat by putting people on the treadmill, and its going to burn at first until you lose the excess and get back into shape for it. But once your in shape for it, that run will be a cakewalk and you will be used to it. Some people wont make the run, theyll just continue on with their complacency and lazyness or move to closer regions so they dont work as hard.

But i can tell you from experience both in EvE and in real life, you have to burn some to earn some.

( and yes i lived in Null sec I know how much logistics means, Stain if you were wondering )


I am perfectly happy about the idea of logistics taking days, not hours. I am not happy about having to open more accounts for more cyno alts. I won't do this, BTW, I will just stop doing logistics first. And I will not go through the effort of jumping my cyno alts through 20 gates every time I make a trip. And I am not happy about taking a JF through gates. I won't do this either. I will just stop doing logistics first. I'll gladly accept whatever jump fatigue I get and will wait as long as I must. But I won't make the annoying routine of logistical supply twice as annoying. I will stop. I will base in low sec where I don't have to light 10 cynos to get stuff to and from market. And I am not talking about Omist or anything. I am talking about what should be the simple task of getting stuff to immensea.

CCP is talking about soft controls influencing player behavior. If their soft controls are making twice as many jumps and jumping through gates, I won't do it.

Especially when this has nothing to do with combat force projection and has nothing to do with big blocs teleporting around the map. It's merely about an annoying part of the game becoming twice as annoying.


open more accounts? Why not work with a group of players. if you don t and want to play solo then guess what you need to have a lot of accounts under the new patch.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7367 - 2014-10-07 04:28:31 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
[quote=Paynus Maiassus][quote=Christopher Mabata][quote=Paynus Maiassus]

open more accounts? Why not work with a group of players. if you don t and want to play solo then guess what you need to have a lot of accounts under the new patch.


Yeah, I'll just join the Goons because they have all kinds of extra players that have nothing better to do than help me with my stuff.

Not.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7368 - 2014-10-07 04:30:29 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:


open more accounts? Why not work with a group of players. if you don t and want to play solo then guess what you need to have a lot of accounts under the new patch.

Or only a single cyno alt that you move, since you need to wait out jump fatigue anyway you might as well move the cyno alt to a new location while you do so.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7369 - 2014-10-07 04:32:27 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
[quote=Paynus Maiassus][quote=Christopher Mabata][quote=Paynus Maiassus]

open more accounts? Why not work with a group of players. if you don t and want to play solo then guess what you need to have a lot of accounts under the new patch.


Yeah, I'll just join the Goons because they have all kinds of extra players that have nothing better to do than help me with my stuff.

Not.


Like i said there are ways around these changes within applied game mechanics that make these changes easy, even for the little guys, its just a matter of actually being willing to put in some type of work to get these results. If all you want to do for your logistics is light 6 cynos and jump to each one with no added brain function required then you dont deserve to live in the deep space that is null. If you actually step back look it over and think about it for 10 seconds you can see a half dozen ways to make your life 200X Easier logistics wise.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7370 - 2014-10-07 04:33:24 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


open more accounts? Why not work with a group of players. if you don t and want to play solo then guess what you need to have a lot of accounts under the new patch.

Or only a single cyno alt that you move, since you need to wait out jump fatigue anyway you might as well move the cyno alt to a new location while you do so.


He already said he wont move cyno alts through gates because "too much work for him to do for his logistics" which is what Black and I are getting at.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7371 - 2014-10-07 04:35:45 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
[quote=Paynus Maiassus][quote=Christopher Mabata][quote=Paynus Maiassus]

open more accounts? Why not work with a group of players. if you don t and want to play solo then guess what you need to have a lot of accounts under the new patch.


Yeah, I'll just join the Goons because they have all kinds of extra players that have nothing better to do than help me with my stuff.

Not.


LOL then go back to high sec then. Goons will leave you alone and concord will protect you there alsoRollShocked. So how much are you paying in rent I am curious? HTFU you are swimming in 0.0 now and we are hoping it just got a little tougher. Really having to share space with renters really is sad.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7372 - 2014-10-07 04:36:47 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


open more accounts? Why not work with a group of players. if you don t and want to play solo then guess what you need to have a lot of accounts under the new patch.

Or only a single cyno alt that you move, since you need to wait out jump fatigue anyway you might as well move the cyno alt to a new location while you do so.


He already said he wont move cyno alts through gates because "too much work for him to do for his logistics" which is what Black and I are getting at.


Well, if you guys are happy with the logistics nerf, good for you. I am out of the business. I know that most alliances are composed of entitled little twerps who demand their content and expect it to be given to them by the few core members of the alliance who make things happen. I won't be doing it anymore. I'll supply alliances that I can with the resources I have. The Goons with their unlimited resources will win. No sweat off my back. I'm going to low sec unless I can get a paltry 7 lightyears for my JF and Rorq.

I imagine there are others like me.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7373 - 2014-10-07 04:40:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
DNSBLACK wrote:


LOL then go back to high sec then. Goons will leave you alone and concord will protect you there alsoRollShocked. So how much are you paying in rent I am curious? HTFU you are swimming in 0.0 now and we are hoping it just got a little tougher. Really having to share space with renters really is sad.


Either you are a basement dweller with no job who has no issues with logging in on demand to coordinate your logistics efforts with a group of other players who may or may not be as committed as you to supplying an alliance, or, quite more likely, you don't do logistics.

So don't yap at me if you aren't walking the walk.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#7374 - 2014-10-07 04:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


LOL then go back to high sec then. Goons will leave you alone and concord will protect you there alsoRollShocked. So how much are you paying in rent I am curious? HTFU you are swimming in 0.0 now and we are hoping it just got a little tougher. Really having to share space with renters really is sad.


Either you are a basement dweller with no job who has no issues with logging in on demand to coordinate your logistics efforts with a group of other players who may or may not be as committed to you to supplying an alliance, or, quite more likely, you don't do logistics.

So don't yap at me if you aren't walking the walk.



Man you pegged me. Now i know what the wizard of OZ felt like when the curtain was pulled back. Shocked you got me I am done posting.

I am so glad the ISD has given us more liberty in this thread. Even the forums are feeling like old school EVE.Twisted
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7375 - 2014-10-07 04:50:43 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


LOL then go back to high sec then. Goons will leave you alone and concord will protect you there alsoRollShocked. So how much are you paying in rent I am curious? HTFU you are swimming in 0.0 now and we are hoping it just got a little tougher. Really having to share space with renters really is sad.


Either you are a basement dweller with no job who has no issues with logging in on demand to coordinate your logistics efforts with a group of other players who may or may not be as committed to you to supplying an alliance, or, quite more likely, you don't do logistics.

So don't yap at me if you aren't walking the walk.



Man you pegged me. Now i know what the wizard of OZ felt like when the curtain was pulled back. Shocked you got me I am done posting.

I am so glad the ISD has given us more liberty in this thread. Even the forums are feeling like old school EVE.Twisted


And I was a renter, but was already planning to move out of Esoteria before the changes were announced. When the changes were announced I packed up shop and am now in low sec. So looking around for the next phase of my Eve career I found friends who could use me in Aridia and friends who could use me in Immensea. And frankly, unless I get more than 5 LY on my haulers, I'm going to Aridia. Nullsec is just too annoying.

That's soft controls for you.

They need to give capital haulers more jump range. Period.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7376 - 2014-10-07 04:58:43 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


LOL then go back to high sec then. Goons will leave you alone and concord will protect you there alsoRollShocked. So how much are you paying in rent I am curious? HTFU you are swimming in 0.0 now and we are hoping it just got a little tougher. Really having to share space with renters really is sad.


Either you are a basement dweller with no job who has no issues with logging in on demand to coordinate your logistics efforts with a group of other players who may or may not be as committed to you to supplying an alliance, or, quite more likely, you don't do logistics.

So don't yap at me if you aren't walking the walk.



Man you pegged me. Now i know what the wizard of OZ felt like when the curtain was pulled back. Shocked you got me I am done posting.

I am so glad the ISD has given us more liberty in this thread. Even the forums are feeling like old school EVE.Twisted


And I was a renter, but was already planning to move out of Esoteria before the changes were announced. When the changes were announced I packed up shop and am now in low sec. So looking around for the next phase of my Eve career I found friends who could use me in Aridia and friends who could use me in Immensea. And frankly, unless I get more than 5 LY on my haulers, I'm going to Aridia. Nullsec is just too annoying.

That's soft controls for you.

They need to give capital haulers more jump range. Period.


No they Dont
Once upon a time there were no jumpfreighters, now you have them
If you wont even adapt to a reduced range or move a cyno alt through a gate then enjoy Aridia
be glad they didnt make Jumpfreighters go shorter ranges than combat caps, like M from CSM said a page back, there is no reason for your supply convoys to travel further than your combat ships, it simply makes force projection too much of an issue

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
twit brent
Never Not AFK
#7377 - 2014-10-07 05:04:35 UTC
The power projection aspect does not bother me at all. I will just be smarter about where I leave my capital pilots and where I stash capitals. This change will help the CFC hold all the space it currently owns.

What I do not like is the pigeonholing of characters. CCP seems to have it in their mind that you are either a combat pilot or an industry pilot and that you should not be able to do both. The real victims of this patch will be the people that don't have multiple accounts like me and will now have to chose what role they want to play in the game and stick with it.

Way to sandbox CCP.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#7378 - 2014-10-07 05:05:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
DNSBLACK wrote:


LOL then go back to high sec then. Goons will leave you alone and concord will protect you there alsoRollShocked. So how much are you paying in rent I am curious? HTFU you are swimming in 0.0 now and we are hoping it just got a little tougher. Really having to share space with renters really is sad.


Either you are a basement dweller with no job who has no issues with logging in on demand to coordinate your logistics efforts with a group of other players who may or may not be as committed to you to supplying an alliance, or, quite more likely, you don't do logistics.

So don't yap at me if you aren't walking the walk.



Man you pegged me. Now i know what the wizard of OZ felt like when the curtain was pulled back. Shocked you got me I am done posting.

I am so glad the ISD has given us more liberty in this thread. Even the forums are feeling like old school EVE.Twisted


And I was a renter, but was already planning to move out of Esoteria before the changes were announced. When the changes were announced I packed up shop and am now in low sec. So looking around for the next phase of my Eve career I found friends who could use me in Aridia and friends who could use me in Immensea. And frankly, unless I get more than 5 LY on my haulers, I'm going to Aridia. Nullsec is just too annoying.

That's soft controls for you.

They need to give capital haulers more jump range. Period.


No they Dont
Once upon a time there were no jumpfreighters, now you have them
If you wont even adapt to a reduced range or move a cyno alt through a gate then enjoy Aridia
be glad they didnt make Jumpfreighters go shorter ranges than combat caps, like M from CSM said a page back, there is no reason for your supply convoys to travel further than your combat ships, it simply makes force projection too much of an issue


Yeah, I'll enjoy Aridia. The guys in Immensea can take it on the chin.

There are plenty of RP/lore reasonings that could support haulers going further than combat ships. And making haulers go further than combat caps won't increase force projection. That's my whole point. They're making lostistics more annoying to no desirable purpose, other than maybe luring idiots into turning their JFs into juicy killmails (which I won't be a party to).

Logistics was a different animal way back. If they want logistics like it was before JFs, just remove JFs.

But I'm done going back and forth with you. If you don't know why JFs need more range it's because you don't fly one.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7379 - 2014-10-07 05:12:31 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
I'm going to low sec unless I can get a paltry 7 lightyears for my JF and Rorq.

I imagine there are others like me.

Finally, some people who aren't threatening to unsub.

Can we also put this down as a success for "invigorating lowsec"?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#7380 - 2014-10-07 05:14:28 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
There are plenty of RP/lore reasonings that could support haulers going further than combat ships.

I'm glad there were lots of RP/lore reasonings that supported the sudden downgrading of capabilities of the titan.

There's hope for peace in an age where people get rid of their remote aoe doomsdays and friage-blapping turrets.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?