These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Creamdream
Whatever Brah
#6881 - 2014-10-05 13:11:13 UTC
Give JUMP FREIGHTERS a HIGHER LY range than 5, please.
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#6882 - 2014-10-05 13:18:30 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

I'm totally with you there - having a jump freighter account with cyno chain accounts is paying to be worked to death at this point for anyone who lives in deep 0.0 or NPC null.

CCP Greyscale has failed to take into account how combat caps and non-combat caps are used differently. Jump freighters jump back and forth between the same two cynos as fast as possible, while combat capitals (except carriers) never do that.


Greyscale has failed to take into account that all caps are used differently. Not to mention jumpbridges and titan bridges that are a whole other story.

They are nerfing all teleportation mechanics and hoping it will turn out good. They have no idea what's really going to happen but are willing to bet on their gut feeling. I for one don't trust ccp's gut feeling and would like to see a more gradual series of nerfs.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6883 - 2014-10-05 13:19:53 UTC
Creamdream wrote:
Give JUMP FREIGHTERS a HIGHER LY range than 5, please.

QFT, we either need full, current-day range or this:

SUSPENDED JF FATIGUE:

When using a JF, cooldowns and fatigue calculate as per normal but do not have any effect.

That way you can't use them as combat taxis. Kill off their ship hauling ability and you've saved the game without killing the economy.
Chad VanGaalen
Straylight Systems
#6884 - 2014-10-05 13:31:16 UTC
I live with a small number of duders in Stain. Most of us have been playing the game for over five years. Our capital usage is mostly for ferrying combat ships in and PI / whatever else out. In all probability, this change will kill us.

When I first read it, I thought perhaps jump freighters wouldn't get a range nerf. I think nerfing their range is the part that takes it too far.

Anyway, so long EVE. It's been a good 6 years.

Damage Control Podcast www.realmenhulltank.com
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6885 - 2014-10-05 13:34:53 UTC
Chad VanGaalen wrote:
I live with a small number of duders in Stain. Most of us have been playing the game for over five years. Our capital usage is mostly for ferrying combat ships in and PI / whatever else out. In all probability, this change will kill us.

When I first read it, I thought perhaps jump freighters wouldn't get a range nerf. I think nerfing their range is the part that takes it too far.

Anyway, so long EVE. It's been a good 6 years.



I had a great 11 years, both the good and bad. Someone posted some similar games coming back out soon. I personally am going back to being a raid enchanter in everquest till then =)

Hell who knows, they might pull it out, but it sure don't look that way at this point. Bought me a bunch of small ships and am going to go have some fun while my time remains.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6886 - 2014-10-05 13:35:32 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Obligatory:
May I please have your stuff so i can be sure it goes to good use in the game?


I suppose that was inevitable, even though this isn't GD.

I guess you can bid for it with the character should these changes go live. I'm sure that nearly there JF alts will start fetching a premium.


personally more interested in assets than anything else, i can fly all 4 JF's, all 4 carriers, and sit in all 4 dreads so alts arent an issue, besides i rarely move them

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#6887 - 2014-10-05 13:36:08 UTC
Now that's shaking up the meta!

In the meanwhile, W-space cap pilots laugh loudly... Cool

Seriously now, that's going to shake up many things. I don't think these changes will throw the cap warfare throuh the window, but many things will change. Caps will now have to consider taking a longer trip through the usual jump portals, or getting to destination much more quickly by risking gate camps (although any sane cap fleet commander should be bringing a escort) (doesn't this remind you of highsec to highsec shortcuts through lowsec?).

I encourage everyone to read the whole devblog word by word before commenting: JF's and BLOPS have special treatment in these changes. And for those who have already red it, do it again, it seems to be being updated with the feedback. Also, remember these are not the final changes.

---

The following has nothing to do with the topic, but I encourage everyone who feels too much affected by changes made to EVE -this change or any other big one- and also changes in their real life to watch this:

"Who took my Cheese?!" - Cartoon Adaptation

Seriously, this might help to see things differently. In gaming, I think it applies quite well to meta changes.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#6888 - 2014-10-05 13:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Quote:
He looks at his map, and finds a 40-route jump through nullsec to get to the same destination, and figuring two minutes per system, his warp travel time for the whole journey is a bit over half the cooldown for his next jump. He decides to fly there directly rather than trying to jump any further.


Even with the proposed change to make this possible, the idea that a carrier would jump 40 jumps through null even as part of a group is an interesting proposal.

I'm left wondering how null based nomads and mercs will be able to deploy effectively after these changes. With JFs not particularly capable of taking rigged hulls and from my calculations this trip performed by jumpmdrive taking ... days?

But meh adapt or die right? ...

So my immediate reaction is to think about buying more ships and carriers around the map to avoid the timers. Chances are I'm not the only person thinking this. Of course this is a solution larger richer entities will find easier that smaller ones.

Looks to me like the smaller groups just got hit with the nerf bat aimed at solving a larger supposed issue?

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6889 - 2014-10-05 13:37:23 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Obligatory:
May I please have your stuff so i can be sure it goes to good use in the game?


I suppose that was inevitable, even though this isn't GD.

I guess you can bid for it with the character should these changes go live. I'm sure that nearly there JF alts will start fetching a premium.


personally more interested in assets than anything else, i can fly all 4 JF's, all 4 carriers, and sit in all 4 dreads so alts arent an issue, besides i rarely move them

/me hands you a cookie
Vandeer Pelt
Militie Templi
#6890 - 2014-10-05 14:00:01 UTC
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
#6891 - 2014-10-05 14:04:13 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Hmmm, the thread slowed down. Seems the CFC whine train ran out of steam, perhaps they just ran out of tears to shed.



Have a closer look at who is posting, very few goons are against this, you know why, because it benefits them more then anybody else.

They have the manpower to cope with the changes. They have the Capital ships to defend their home systems, they have the isk to seed system after system with carriers and dreads and they are going to have even more isk after these changes.



You may have missed all the goons whining about the logistics changes and predicting the collapse of the T2 market, and threatening to move to empire / quit the game. Seems like the changes are WAD already.
gazarsgo
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#6892 - 2014-10-05 14:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: gazarsgo
I generally like these changes, and think they are necessary given the huge numbers of capitals currently in the game and the ease with which they are currently power projected.

I have a concern with the new fatigue mechanics applying to Black Ops battleships, however. Blacks Ops are currently underused. After this patch, they would quickly become superfluous -- there is no reason to use a Black Ops battleship over a regular battleship after jump fatigue prohibits further cynoing. Black Ops have weak tanks and relatively low DPS. If you're going to take gates through lowsec or 0.0, might as well use a regular BS over a Black Ops. Consequently, I would recommend that Black Ops battleships be immune from fatigue. That way, Black Ops could still be a quick "power projection" force across EVE, incentivizing their use. This would not make Black Ops overpowered -- Black Ops are paper-thin and expensive. It would be a real gamble to deploy a Black Ops fleet.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#6893 - 2014-10-05 14:12:22 UTC
Veers Belvar wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Hmmm, the thread slowed down. Seems the CFC whine train ran out of steam, perhaps they just ran out of tears to shed.



Have a closer look at who is posting, very few goons are against this, you know why, because it benefits them more then anybody else.

They have the manpower to cope with the changes. They have the Capital ships to defend their home systems, they have the isk to seed system after system with carriers and dreads and they are going to have even more isk after these changes.



You may have missed all the goons whining about the logistics changes and predicting the collapse of the T2 market, and threatening to move to empire / quit the game. Seems like the changes are WAD already.


http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/376666-1 Next time this is brought up just link this to the poster.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#6894 - 2014-10-05 14:15:36 UTC
Chad VanGaalen wrote:
I live with a small number of duders in Stain. Most of us have been playing the game for over five years. Our capital usage is mostly for ferrying combat ships in and PI / whatever else out. In all probability, this change will kill us.

When I first read it, I thought perhaps jump freighters wouldn't get a range nerf. I think nerfing their range is the part that takes it too far.

Anyway, so long EVE. It's been a good 6 years.



Bio or it didn't happen. It's only a 2 year old temper tantrum otherwise.
Aggro Bot
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6895 - 2014-10-05 14:24:15 UTC
Elimination of the tiered jump ranges for the various capitals is silly. they should still have different ranges. Feeling pretty sorry for all those players in the south and east of eve. If this shipped out as drafted, the map's design makes life inherently more difficult for those with a non jump range void between empire and null.

Fatigue is something we all can agree on.

the range consolidation is too much.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#6896 - 2014-10-05 14:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
gazarsgo wrote:
I generally like these changes, and think they are necessary given the huge numbers of capitals currently in the game and the ease with which they are currently power projected.

I have a concern with the new fatigue mechanics applying to Black Ops battleships, however. Blacks Ops are currently underused. After this patch, they would quickly become superfluous -- there is no reason to use a Black Ops battleship over a regular battleship after jump fatigue prohibits further cynoing. Black Ops have weak tanks and relatively low DPS. If you're going to take gates through lowsec or 0.0, might as well use a regular BS over a Black Ops. Consequently, I would recommend that Black Ops battleships be immune from fatigue. That way, Black Ops could still be a quick "power projection" force across EVE, incentivizing their use. This would not make Black Ops overpowered -- Black Ops are paper-thin and expensive. It would be a real gamble to deploy a Black Ops fleet.


1. Not only the huge number of caps but the ability to move materials from high sec to 0.0 to build them. Wanting a farms and fields type game begins with terrain and preventing the JF from selling and shopping at JITA MART. What I find crazy is reading the addiction to high sec the current 0.0 groups have. I thought you guys hated high sec.

2. Making the use of BO tough again is fine and better for the game. Being selective with targets while using any jump capable ship should be better for the game period. As it is now BO are way to easy to use and I am for the fatigue changes as they are.

3. As for the BO BS we are still waiting for CCP Fozzy to give us a work over. It has almost been a year since the simple changes. It would be nice to get Tech 2 resist on our ships seeing how we are 1 of only 2 classes of tech 2 BS in the game.
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#6897 - 2014-10-05 14:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: DNSBLACK
Aggro Bot wrote:
Elimination of the tiered jump ranges for the various capitals is silly. they should still have different ranges. Feeling pretty sorry for all those players in the south and east of eve. If this shipped out as drafted, the map's design makes life inherently more difficult for those with a non jump range void between empire and null.

Fatigue is something we all can agree on.

the range consolidation is too much.


Exactly, well said. That is why this change needs to stay as it is and 5 LY is perfect.
Aggro Bot
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6898 - 2014-10-05 14:35:07 UTC
or more realisticly,


do the fatigue on the first patch,



do the range consolidation (in a later patch)
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6899 - 2014-10-05 14:35:13 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Chad VanGaalen wrote:
I live with a small number of duders in Stain. Most of us have been playing the game for over five years. Our capital usage is mostly for ferrying combat ships in and PI / whatever else out. In all probability, this change will kill us.

When I first read it, I thought perhaps jump freighters wouldn't get a range nerf. I think nerfing their range is the part that takes it too far.

Anyway, so long EVE. It's been a good 6 years.



Bio or it didn't happen. It's only a 2 year old temper tantrum otherwise.



Your going to get your upgrade don't worry. If they announced it the decision was already made over a board of sorts. Enjoy it, but keep in mind there will be a lot less of those that seed the market and build the goods. Our opinions were expressed and other options were given, its up to the devs. There is a 1 percent chance they reverse this however, at least imo. With that note im done posting on these forums and wish all of you the best of luck. Fly safe and God bless your travels.
Aggro Bot
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#6900 - 2014-10-05 14:39:25 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:
Aggro Bot wrote:
Elimination of the tiered jump ranges for the various capitals is silly. they should still have different ranges. Feeling pretty sorry for all those players in the south and east of eve. If this shipped out as drafted, the map's design makes life inherently more difficult for those with a non jump range void between empire and null.

Fatigue is something we all can agree on.

the range consolidation is too much.


Exactly, well said. That is why this change needs to stay as it is and 5 LY is perfect.

Fatigue became necessity due in part to TIDI, but mostly due to proliferation.


so you're saying that if I want to play eve on hard I should just move to the south or east?