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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#6861 - 2014-10-05 11:28:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
A problem realised last night, lemmings through jump bridges are now going to **** up their fatigue. I think the size of the punishment is out of balance considering the size of the mistake made, both to them and the remainder of the fleet. I'd suggest scrapping penalty for jumping back through bridges in the opposite direction you came, or at the least some sort of dialog box like the lowsec one going out of empire to prevent perma fc rage.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6862 - 2014-10-05 11:31:14 UTC
Preem Palvor wrote:
The only one to benefit from this patch are the big alliances that can muster enough people to escort high value logistic.

The dream of "freighter convoys" lives.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#6863 - 2014-10-05 11:31:32 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
the_mittani wrote:


When confronting the enemy on the forums, many of whom will be thinking that the CFC will be made less secure by these changes somehow, make sure to adopt a posture of smug satisfaction about the inherent superiority of life on the ~west side~. As it stands right now these changes will ensure that the West becomes an eternal empire; while the bridge hit is obnoxious, much of our key infrastructure is accessible within reasonable jump cooldown limits due to geography, where life on the East will be rendered a smoking hellscape. Should our foes try to attack or dislodge us, their capital fleets will no longer be able to 'ninja' away from our sledgehammer of overwhelming force, as they do in the present system. We will also be able to use our own local capital fleets with total impunity and no risk of a cross-galaxy counterattack. Defense, you say? The existing CFC Forward Operating Base system will be expanded to ensure that we can 'bounce' simply using our jump clones, and we already have set logi routes to the primary FOBs from wars past. The situation for us is excellent. The situation for our various assembled enemies is a Goddamned Nightmare, and yet many of them are so foolish that they'll loudly support these changes, deluded into thinking it hurts us more than them.

Ah Mittens...

The guy who is infamous for not telling you the truth behind a wall of propaganda, on his heavily censored website...

...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6864 - 2014-10-05 11:34:38 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Manfred Sideous wrote:
the_mittani wrote:


When confronting the enemy on the forums, many of whom will be thinking that the CFC will be made less secure by these changes somehow, make sure to adopt a posture of smug satisfaction about the inherent superiority of life on the ~west side~. As it stands right now these changes will ensure that the West becomes an eternal empire; while the bridge hit is obnoxious, much of our key infrastructure is accessible within reasonable jump cooldown limits due to geography, where life on the East will be rendered a smoking hellscape. Should our foes try to attack or dislodge us, their capital fleets will no longer be able to 'ninja' away from our sledgehammer of overwhelming force, as they do in the present system. We will also be able to use our own local capital fleets with total impunity and no risk of a cross-galaxy counterattack. Defense, you say? The existing CFC Forward Operating Base system will be expanded to ensure that we can 'bounce' simply using our jump clones, and we already have set logi routes to the primary FOBs from wars past. The situation for us is excellent. The situation for our various assembled enemies is a Goddamned Nightmare, and yet many of them are so foolish that they'll loudly support these changes, deluded into thinking it hurts us more than them.

Ah Mittens...

The guy who is infamous for not telling you the truth behind a wall of propaganda, on his heavily censored website...

Manfred Sideous, the guy who is famous for...

Wait a sec, why is it "the_mittani", where is this coming from?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6865 - 2014-10-05 11:36:52 UTC
Crap, I didn't know we had posting orders. One sec while I edit everything I posted.

Funny though, ncdot and pl don't live in the east or really anywhere? It's just renters

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Higgs Foton
Mission And Mining Inc
#6866 - 2014-10-05 11:49:03 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:


Funny though, ncdot and pl don't live in the east or really anywhere? It's just renters


Renters who live far away from high sec, with their supply lines now heavily trumped by this change, and no good way of getting their goods to the markets. And every month they need to pay a chunk of isk to their overlords. We do not have many renters, nor do we live far from high sec, and we have a good population in null sec meaning we already have a regional market. Most of the stuff i find or produce i am already selling in YAO anyway.

So if Mittens says this change benefits us, he is right. The people living in Providence will also benefit greatly from these changes of they organise themselves good. If they plan it right Providence might also become a fortress. I already told this to some CVA dudes on a meet here. :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6867 - 2014-10-05 11:56:48 UTC
I was in the middle of editing my posts to conform to the appropriate new perspective we were supposed to express.

Had to check that it was not some random thing a guy made up.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6868 - 2014-10-05 11:59:03 UTC
So, here's a question from someone who only started this year:

I've been working on a hauler alt on a second account, and had the long view of setting it up as a JF pilot to help me in NPC Null. As I'm relatively new, I'm not really yet able to regularly plex accounts, I may have done the odd month, but mainly pay for the accounts that I have.

Currently, that hauler alt has the relevant Jump Drive kills at IV, in addition to transaport ships and freighter skills. Each of the remaining JD skills will take ~35 days each to get to V, for what is apparently 1 LY distance increment.

That, flatly, isn't worth me spending $30 to do. The value in the skill train has effectively vanished, and from where I'm looking, the only way to move forward with this, would be to sell the alt and close that account down.

What am I missing?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6869 - 2014-10-05 12:02:02 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
So, here's a question from someone who only started this year:

I've been working on a hauler alt on a second account, and had the long view of setting it up as a JF pilot to help me in NPC Null. As I'm relatively new, I'm not really yet able to regularly plex accounts, I may have done the odd month, but mainly pay for the accounts that I have.

Currently, that hauler alt has the relevant Jump Drive kills at IV, in addition to transaport ships and freighter skills. Each of the remaining JD skills will take ~35 days each to get to V, for what is apparently 1 LY distance increment.

That, flatly, isn't worth me spending $30 to do. The value in the skill train has effectively vanished, and from where I'm looking, the only way to move forward with this, would be to sell the alt and close that account down.

What am I missing?

What about training to IV instead of V

Unless you have to be an elite Player vs Freight, perhaps not Ving everything

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Christopher Multsanti
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#6870 - 2014-10-05 12:06:22 UTC
Let's talk logistics. The jf jump range nerf seems to harsh. Please can you bump them up to black ops or maybe to 10 ly distance. Or is there another reason for nerfing them. Just some more info on that would be cool.

Haulers Kill Vagabond!
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6871 - 2014-10-05 12:09:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
So, here's a question from someone who only started this year:

I've been working on a hauler alt on a second account, and had the long view of setting it up as a JF pilot to help me in NPC Null. As I'm relatively new, I'm not really yet able to regularly plex accounts, I may have done the odd month, but mainly pay for the accounts that I have.

Currently, that hauler alt has the relevant Jump Drive kills at IV, in addition to transaport ships and freighter skills. Each of the remaining JD skills will take ~35 days each to get to V, for what is apparently 1 LY distance increment.

That, flatly, isn't worth me spending $30 to do. The value in the skill train has effectively vanished, and from where I'm looking, the only way to move forward with this, would be to sell the alt and close that account down.

What am I missing?

What about training to IV instead of V

Unless you have to be an elite Player vs Freight, perhaps not Ving everything


I created the hauler alt as a convenience for myself, largely. If what has been posted in the dev blog comes to pass, then it is very much 'not a convenience', and will be more like work - very much 'not fun'. Hence the value in that account has evaporated.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#6872 - 2014-10-05 12:21:59 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
So, here's a question from someone who only started this year:

I've been working on a hauler alt on a second account, and had the long view of setting it up as a JF pilot to help me in NPC Null. As I'm relatively new, I'm not really yet able to regularly plex accounts, I may have done the odd month, but mainly pay for the accounts that I have.

Currently, that hauler alt has the relevant Jump Drive kills at IV, in addition to transaport ships and freighter skills. Each of the remaining JD skills will take ~35 days each to get to V, for what is apparently 1 LY distance increment.

That, flatly, isn't worth me spending $30 to do. The value in the skill train has effectively vanished, and from where I'm looking, the only way to move forward with this, would be to sell the alt and close that account down.

What am I missing?

What about training to IV instead of V

Unless you have to be an elite Player vs Freight, perhaps not Ving everything


I created the hauler alt as a convenience for myself, largely. If what has been posted in the dev blog comes to pass, then it is very much 'not a convenience', and will be more like work - very much 'not fun'. Hence the value in that account has evaporated.

Oh, so this is more of "if it's capped at 5LY why bother at all" as opposed to "what is the value of training it from IV to V"...

Yeah if you have access to JF services, it might be better to let them deal with it, since it isn't like in highsec where you can autopilot it yourself (obviously don't carry 20bil of stuff in a freighter)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6873 - 2014-10-05 12:22:16 UTC
SanDooD wrote:
Does this change somehow bring in more customers? I don't see it.

So because YOU don't see it, it can't be true right? But you have no access to ANY of the stats CCP has that tell THEM this will work.
This is the best change CCP has proposed in a long time...
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad
#6874 - 2014-10-05 12:24:00 UTC
Chribba,

http://eve-search.com/stats/thread/376666-1 I love this stuff keep it coming.

Black
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6875 - 2014-10-05 12:31:42 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
So, here's a question from someone who only started this year:

I've been working on a hauler alt on a second account, and had the long view of setting it up as a JF pilot to help me in NPC Null. As I'm relatively new, I'm not really yet able to regularly plex accounts, I may have done the odd month, but mainly pay for the accounts that I have.

Currently, that hauler alt has the relevant Jump Drive kills at IV, in addition to transaport ships and freighter skills. Each of the remaining JD skills will take ~35 days each to get to V, for what is apparently 1 LY distance increment.

That, flatly, isn't worth me spending $30 to do. The value in the skill train has effectively vanished, and from where I'm looking, the only way to move forward with this, would be to sell the alt and close that account down.

What am I missing?

What about training to IV instead of V

Unless you have to be an elite Player vs Freight, perhaps not Ving everything


I created the hauler alt as a convenience for myself, largely. If what has been posted in the dev blog comes to pass, then it is very much 'not a convenience', and will be more like work - very much 'not fun'. Hence the value in that account has evaporated.

Oh, so this is more of "if it's capped at 5LY why bother at all" as opposed to "what is the value of training it from IV to V"...

Yeah if you have access to JF services, it might be better to let them deal with it, since it isn't like in highsec where you can autopilot it yourself (obviously don't carry 20bil of stuff in a freighter)


Interesting way of reframing the question.

Some of it is that, I suppose, I believe that the proposed cap is far too harsh, but I gather that is the intent behind this change. It also does make that account, as I've indicated 3 times now, which was a convenience, now very much not.

Another aspect to my question is that with the skill at the rank that it is, the theoretical benefit of 5LY jumps instead of 4 LY jumps serves no practical purpose to me, and is not worth spending the money needed for that additional ~70 days of training. The value just isn't there.

Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6876 - 2014-10-05 12:43:52 UTC
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
So, here's a question from someone who only started this year:

I've been working on a hauler alt on a second account, and had the long view of setting it up as a JF pilot to help me in NPC Null. As I'm relatively new, I'm not really yet able to regularly plex accounts, I may have done the odd month, but mainly pay for the accounts that I have.

Currently, that hauler alt has the relevant Jump Drive kills at IV, in addition to transaport ships and freighter skills. Each of the remaining JD skills will take ~35 days each to get to V, for what is apparently 1 LY distance increment.

That, flatly, isn't worth me spending $30 to do. The value in the skill train has effectively vanished, and from where I'm looking, the only way to move forward with this, would be to sell the alt and close that account down.

What am I missing?

What about training to IV instead of V

Unless you have to be an elite Player vs Freight, perhaps not Ving everything


I created the hauler alt as a convenience for myself, largely. If what has been posted in the dev blog comes to pass, then it is very much 'not a convenience', and will be more like work - very much 'not fun'. Hence the value in that account has evaporated.

Oh, so this is more of "if it's capped at 5LY why bother at all" as opposed to "what is the value of training it from IV to V"...

Yeah if you have access to JF services, it might be better to let them deal with it, since it isn't like in highsec where you can autopilot it yourself (obviously don't carry 20bil of stuff in a freighter)


Interesting way of reframing the question.

Some of it is that, I suppose, I believe that the proposed cap is far too harsh, but I gather that is the intent behind this change. It also does make that account, as I've indicated 3 times now, which was a convenience, now very much not.

Another aspect to my question is that with the skill at the rank that it is, the theoretical benefit of 5LY jumps instead of 4 LY jumps serves no practical purpose to me, and is not worth spending the money needed for that additional ~70 days of training. The value just isn't there.



Good point. I personally unsubbed and am looking into a different game. Ive already exhausted how detrimental this is to smaller alliances and renters. Just time to move on. Of course, have to see implementation before decision is final. Fly safe folks.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6877 - 2014-10-05 12:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazri al Mahdi
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Rob Kashuken wrote:
So, here's a question from someone who only started this year:

I've been working on a hauler alt on a second account, and had the long view of setting it up as a JF pilot to help me in NPC Null. As I'm relatively new, I'm not really yet able to regularly plex accounts, I may have done the odd month, but mainly pay for the accounts that I have.

Currently, that hauler alt has the relevant Jump Drive kills at IV, in addition to transaport ships and freighter skills. Each of the remaining JD skills will take ~35 days each to get to V, for what is apparently 1 LY distance increment.

That, flatly, isn't worth me spending $30 to do. The value in the skill train has effectively vanished, and from where I'm looking, the only way to move forward with this, would be to sell the alt and close that account down.

What am I missing?

What about training to IV instead of V

Unless you have to be an elite Player vs Freight, perhaps not Ving everything


I created the hauler alt as a convenience for myself, largely. If what has been posted in the dev blog comes to pass, then it is very much 'not a convenience', and will be more like work - very much 'not fun'. Hence the value in that account has evaporated.

Oh, so this is more of "if it's capped at 5LY why bother at all" as opposed to "what is the value of training it from IV to V"...

Yeah if you have access to JF services, it might be better to let them deal with it, since it isn't like in highsec where you can autopilot it yourself (obviously don't carry 20bil of stuff in a freighter)


Interesting way of reframing the question.

Some of it is that, I suppose, I believe that the proposed cap is far too harsh, but I gather that is the intent behind this change. It also does make that account, as I've indicated 3 times now, which was a convenience, now very much not.

Another aspect to my question is that with the skill at the rank that it is, the theoretical benefit of 5LY jumps instead of 4 LY jumps serves no practical purpose to me, and is not worth spending the money needed for that additional ~70 days of training. The value just isn't there.


I'm totally with you there - having a jump freighter account with cyno chain accounts is paying to be worked to death at this point for anyone who lives in deep 0.0 or NPC null.

CCP Greyscale has failed to take into account how combat caps and non-combat caps are used differently. Jump freighters jump back and forth between the same two cynos as fast as possible, while combat capitals (except carriers) never do that.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6878 - 2014-10-05 12:46:12 UTC
Obligatory:
May I please have your stuff so i can be sure it goes to good use in the game?

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Be4st
The Abusement Park
#6879 - 2014-10-05 12:59:10 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Good point. I personally unsubbed and am looking into a different game. Ive already exhausted how detrimental this is to smaller alliances and renters. Just time to move on. Of course, have to see implementation before decision is final. Fly safe folks.


I felt the same way. I hardly ever use a cap, but when I do, its for moving my shіt to and from Venal. Oh, which after the patch means that I have 2 or 3 jumps along my route into Sov space where I cannot dock.I agree with CCP that something needs to be fixed, but I believe a nerf this hard will scare their clients away.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a game to suck up your hours, head to 'Elite: Dangerous'. Its still beta but it looks good. I mistakenly spent money on Star Citizen a few months back and now regret it seeing the speed that both games are progressing at. I showed a corpy a video of Elite: Dangerous a month or two ago and now I hardly see him because he is playing that rather than EvE lol
Rob Kashuken
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6880 - 2014-10-05 13:01:11 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
Obligatory:
May I please have your stuff so i can be sure it goes to good use in the game?


I suppose that was inevitable, even though this isn't GD.

I guess you can bid for it with the character should these changes go live. I'm sure that nearly there JF alts will start fetching a premium.