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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6021 - 2014-10-03 20:26:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
Six Beavers wrote:
Mostly here to get in on a 300+ page thread. oh and I think these changes are going to be great for the game!




OH @#$@ CODE. is in Thread.. you guys paid your posting permits right??? Pirate

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#6022 - 2014-10-03 20:26:18 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
This will result in a massive shakeup of whatever agreements and standings exist. New blues will be made, olds will go away, new agreements will be established and old ones will go away.

This is short sighted.

Your massive shakeup may happen, simply because reality changed and what was once effective now isn't. The question is what happens after the shakeup, and the answer is: continued stagnation. This is basically a one-shot deal that will buy you a few months of null-sec dynamics, and then the carrier and JF alts finish training/being purchased and we're back at where we started, only now the game is more annoying.

The truth is this change has little to do with the state of null-sec.
Kalissis
#6023 - 2014-10-03 20:29:25 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
This will result in a massive shakeup of whatever agreements and standings exist. New blues will be made, olds will go away, new agreements will be established and old ones will go away.

This is short sighted.

Your massive shakeup may happen, simply because reality changed and what was once effective now isn't. The question is what happens after the shakeup, and the answer is: continued stagnation. This is basically a one-shot deal that will buy you a few months of null-sec dynamics, and then the carrier and JF alts finish training/being purchased and we're back at where we started, only now the game is more annoying.

The truth is this change has little to do with the state of null-sec.


This is only the first step of many, EVE will progress, as it will progress after November. Stagnation is only if we dont let it progress as many are trying now by stopping this great changes. Evolve, adopt, and EVE will survive.
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#6024 - 2014-10-03 20:29:40 UTC
Six Beavers wrote:
Mostly here to get in on a 300+ page thread. oh and I think these changes are going to be great for the game!


Do you have a posting permit? Roll
Joachim Weiss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6025 - 2014-10-03 20:30:13 UTC
Kalissis wrote:


Do the math please, its exactly how it is now, there is very little fatigue for moving close ranges.


But if I'm not mistaken, under the current proposal, all jumps are considered the same in terms of location and cool down. I think that you should have free and unpenalized movement within a constellation, and only a small if any cool down to change constellations within a region, but heavily deterred in changing regions with a cool down timer. The cool downs should be location based, not range based. It would solve the problem of every day logistics within a home region, not burden a logistics pilot with a cool down for a fleet later that requires he fly a carrier or dread, while making rapid movement map wide much longer. If the goal is to promote using the space you're currently in, there should be relatively unrestricted movement range/cool down time within realistic ranges, not arbitrary distances.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6026 - 2014-10-03 20:32:19 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
This will result in a massive shakeup of whatever agreements and standings exist. New blues will be made, olds will go away, new agreements will be established and old ones will go away.

This is short sighted.

Your massive shakeup may happen, simply because reality changed and what was once effective now isn't. The question is what happens after the shakeup, and the answer is: continued stagnation. This is basically a one-shot deal that will buy you a few months of null-sec dynamics, and then the carrier and JF alts finish training/being purchased and we're back at where we started, only now the game is more annoying.

The truth is this change has little to do with the state of null-sec.
I think the key is that null sec sovereignty is 100% safe even if you don't log in for months at a time. (Only log in for super cap fight at some IHUB somewhere). If they do sov right, then alliances that decide to play LoL instead of Eve will risk losing their space. That alone would be worth all these changes.

If you dominate in the future, it's partly due to the fact that you're actually logged into the game on a regular basis.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6027 - 2014-10-03 20:33:34 UTC
Joachim Weiss wrote:
I think that you should have free and unpenalized movement within a constellation
It's called jump gates.
Gwailar
Doomheim
#6028 - 2014-10-03 20:33:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I think the key is that null sec sovereignty is 100% safe even if you don't log in for months at a time. (Only log in for super cap fight at some IHUB somewhere). If they do sov right, then alliances that decide to play LoL instead of Eve will risk losing their space. That alone would be worth all these changes.

If you dominate in the future, it's partly due to the fact that you're actually logged into the game on a regular basis.


This. This right here.

"Mmmmm. PoonWaffles."   --Mittens the Cat
Ohkewl
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6029 - 2014-10-03 20:34:00 UTC
Ok,who at CCP hired John Smedley?
Come on CCP_Smedley, show yourself!
Also, proposal to change the name for the next mini expansion into Exodus.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6030 - 2014-10-03 20:35:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Kun'ii Zenya wrote:


Look, null right now has 2 big blocks for the most part. This idea of one entity being attacked on multiple fronts is unlikley. And if a single block tries it, that is going to most likley mean these power projection problems hurt them even more. This change is probably a buff to defenders.

Get it?

As for breaking things up in Null, this is not going to do it.


Yes it will.

This provides exactly the opportunities someone will need to stab a blue in the back.

And it removes the incentives for people on opposite sides of the game to be blue with each other.


I think you are a bit out of touch with the current state of null politics. While various null entities have various treaties/agreements they are not all blue to each other.


Way to go avoid the entire point of the post.

This will result in a massive shakeup of whatever agreements and standings exist. New blues will be made, olds will go away, new agreements will be established and old ones will go away.

It's all about opportunity.
There is none with magic capships instantly everywhere online.
There is with these changes. Period.


Asserting that something has to happen is far from a reaonable or logical argument...but then again this is the Eve O forums where things like, "Your tears are delicious" counts as a post of the highest calibre. v0v


This isn't a simple math equation.

The proof and evidences you're looking for simply do not exist. You're being obstinate and avoiding the topic trying to insinuate anyone will possibly be able to see all the effects of a balancing action with this and your other posts.

All we can know for certain is what we see now. The status quo. And understand what contributes to it. Which in the case of inter-regional coalitions, is the ability for people to near-instantly attack, defend and react to multiple issues across all of space.

I'm not asserting something has to happen. I'm telling you the conditions that exist today are apparent and these changes can contribute to an environment where that can change. Nothing more.

And yes,
your tears are truly delicious
your inability to discuss the issue with any relevance or logic is not.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6031 - 2014-10-03 20:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Kun'ii Zenya
Joachim Weiss wrote:
While the end result seems to be promising in terms of shaking things up, I feel as if the timers and ranges need to be addressed. I couldn't possibly pretend to figure the proper math, but my general ideas would be that jumping within a constellation is penalty free, changing constellations within a region can incur some penalty, but nothing that would impact local travel significantly, while changing regions would incur a great penalty, thus deterring rapid movement across the galaxy, but letting local inhabitants do the logistics needed within the region without any great worry of burn out or timers.

This would also even the playing field with capitals when it comes to fighting/invasions in single region combat. As once you move capitals to the target region, with plenty of delays to get there, both the home and defenders would have the same range and freedom of movement.

If this has been suggested already, I apologize, nobody can be expected to keep up with this thread.


Not quite. This is only true if you carefully manage your fatigue so that your fatigue levels drop under 1. Otherwise you end up where successive jumps have a multiplicative effect on fatigue and the fatigue function becomes exponential. If you don't manage your fatigue, even when jumping in a constellation, you can end up with significant fatigue and be stuck. Fortunately the distances in a constellation are kind of small...at least for the few systems I checked. Although looking at the Kalevala Expanse the constellations there seem a bit more spread out...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6032 - 2014-10-03 20:36:41 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
You know if you turn the number 300 vertically it kinda does look like a ASCII version of poopsocking.... which you fanboi's should be expecting do a lot of if your still planning on flying Capitals!

300


YOu see it too right? Lol


Funny thing here is that I am now training for a dread because of the changes. That's something I never expected to do..
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6033 - 2014-10-03 20:37:13 UTC
Ohkewl wrote:
Ok,who at CCP hired John Smedley?
Come on CCP_Smedley, show yourself!
Also, proposal to change the name for the next mini expansion into Exodus.


Hehehe

Two big reveals:

1) John Smedley is actually.... Yar! Captain Neckbeard! Pirate (maybe)

2) Exodus was already an expansion ~ Sorry Straight

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6034 - 2014-10-03 20:38:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
You know if you turn the number 300 vertically it kinda does look like a ASCII version of poopsocking.... which you fanboi's should be expecting do a lot of if your still planning on flying Capitals!

300


YOu see it too right? Lol


Funny thing here is that I am now training for a dread because of the changes. That's something I never expected to do..


Enjoy that training grind for Jump Cal V so you can get your way awesome 5 LY jump range m8 Lol

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6035 - 2014-10-03 20:39:55 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
You know if you turn the number 300 vertically it kinda does look like a ASCII version of poopsocking.... which you fanboi's should be expecting do a lot of if your still planning on flying Capitals!

300


YOu see it too right? Lol


Funny thing here is that I am now training for a dread because of the changes. That's something I never expected to do..


Enjoy that training grind for Jump Cal V so you can get your way awesome 5 LY jump range m8 Lol


Turns out I already have it and I have no idea why :cripes:
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6036 - 2014-10-03 20:41:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
You know if you turn the number 300 vertically it kinda does look like a ASCII version of poopsocking.... which you fanboi's should be expecting do a lot of if your still planning on flying Capitals!

300


YOu see it too right? Lol


Funny thing here is that I am now training for a dread because of the changes. That's something I never expected to do..


Enjoy that training grind for Jump Cal V so you can get your way awesome 5 LY jump range m8 Lol


Turns out I already have it and I have no idea why :cripes:



Drunk?

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#6037 - 2014-10-03 20:42:53 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:


Oh and again: 300

The ASCII version of poopsocking - You see it too right? Ya... I know you do Lol


Also: Total shame that CSM never did really show up to this Threadnaught - even posting a blank post would have been a better message than not showing up at all in protest!


First time I contacted one since inception and I got his dam answer machine its just like a GM.

Please stay on the line your call is important to us but your money more so.

" insert random music here "

Who is with me for the first capital roam ??

If conversation doesn't show CCP the fools they have made of themselves perhaps low bears tears will when 50+ carriers dismantle there well formed BS gate camps.

You just know they will agro first what fools EvilEvilEvil
Kalissis
#6038 - 2014-10-03 20:44:41 UTC
Joachim Weiss wrote:
Kalissis wrote:


Do the math please, its exactly how it is now, there is very little fatigue for moving close ranges.


But if I'm not mistaken, under the current proposal, all jumps are considered the same in terms of location and cool down. I think that you should have free and unpenalized movement within a constellation, and only a small if any cool down to change constellations within a region, but heavily deterred in changing regions with a cool down timer. The cool downs should be location based, not range based. It would solve the problem of every day logistics within a home region, not burden a logistics pilot with a cool down for a fleet later that requires he fly a carrier or dread, while making rapid movement map wide much longer. If the goal is to promote using the space you're currently in, there should be relatively unrestricted movement range/cool down time within realistic ranges, not arbitrary distances.


The strategy will be to do your logistics before any timers like 12h before so even ~20ly distances are cooled down. Sure logistics will need to adopt but what CCP is trying to do is to stop making EVE into an "instant action" game, there a hundrets of online games better suited for that. And I think you will find that those changes are also benificial for groups like BL with minor adjustments, because once you deploy to a region you will be able to do your "hot drops" in that region, just plan a little ahead and create rules for logistics/fight drops.

On the other hand you will see groups like Black Frog Fright created, adopt and evolve, that will be there to help with your burden of all day logistics.
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6039 - 2014-10-03 20:45:01 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Lets get into reality here real quick. This update is going through, we mostly know that. Some of us are just hoping, small hope, there is some reason on board with the dev group. there is no reason to wager, it will not be needed. However, I do wager this will reduce subs by at least 10 percent. That is a bet we can make.

If we got subscription numbers I'd be down for that bet.

Something based on ACU Higher average concurrent users 4-6 weeks after Phoebe than before?


Ill just do a spreadsheet, (we play eve after all) and do a peek test daily and compare it to current peak subscription. If the sample polls here are indicative of what the masses will do. We all know some will leave right when it happens and some will come when it happens, it may be better to do a comparative analysis 3 months down the road after the update, then again under its current conception I wont be here. I will do my best to do some statistics on this.
Kun'ii Zenya
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6040 - 2014-10-03 20:45:19 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:

This isn't a simple math equation.

The proof and evidences you're looking for simply do not exist. You're being obstinate and avoiding the topic trying to insinuate anyone will possibly be able to see all the effects of a balancing action.

All we can no for certain is what we see now. The status quo. And understand what contributes to it. Which in the case of inter-regional coalitions, is the ability for people to near-instantly attack, defend and react to multiple issues across all of space.

I'm not asserting something has to happen. I'm telling you the conditions that exist today are apparent and these changes can contribute to an environment where that can change. Nothing more.

And yes,
your tears are truly delicious
your inability to discuss the issue with any relevance or logic is not.


Never said it was a simple math equation. If anything it is likely a game theory question. Nor am I looking for proof. I'm looking for something other than a simple assertion. Saying it will break up the big blocks is about as convincing as simply asserting it will kill Eve.

Might one of the big blocks collapse? Sure, but that could happen even without these changes.

Will these changes pose new problems to the existing blocks? Of course, but these same blocks have shown themselves to rather adept and adapting. Given that these changes will effect both the defender and the attacker it isn't clear it will do much of anything.

Now, after these changes will each side be watching other looking for an opportunity? Yes. Will these changes mean that they will be looking for different opportunities? Again yes. However, I submit that this was true last month...that is nothing fundamental has changed. That is the current state of a cold war will continue until there is a percipitating event...just like it has been.

Now, will there be more roaming due to this change? I sure hope so. That would be a welcomed change. But roaming probably wont lead to one of the blocks attacking the other. In fact, that kind of additional content might help move the date of the next Great War a bit further back since both sides will be having fun roaming, starting the Great War to keep one block's players engage may be less of a Thing™.