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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5821 - 2014-10-03 18:22:36 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Necro Cat wrote:
Hello,
Just my two cents

I've been in the game since 2008, I flew small ships, cruisers and battlecruisers and enjoyed them much, I have spent my career mostly in null and low, been a pirate, now I've found a really good capital fielding alliance. They took me in for training and...

....I am now a carrier/ dreadnaught/ freighter pilot, have been for 3 years (and I'm training for a Super Carrier)

Since then, I have flown alongside a few other capitals in sooooo much combat, it was glorious, it was fun, exciting, really exciting, but...... it was easier than I had thought. Really, really easy.

My capital fleet was crushing absolutely everyone in its path, we hotdropped on everyone we could with impunity, literally everything; one time we even went to low-sec and hotdropped 17 dreadnaughts and 12 carriers on a mining frigate, yes a mining frigate, but that's a tale for another thread. Where we went, it didn't take too long to setup a hotdrop either, there were plenty of targets to drop on, and they wouldn't be able to do anything!.

Over time, I was slowly changing my mind, it was less and less fun to knock down on the home space of the little guys with my capital fleet, taking over their sovereignty, their stations, their space business all the while they couldn't do anything, but look on as their POS's were sacked and the assets in them were seized. It paid, my god did it pay, but it was no longer fun.
What was fun was when they would fight or at least bring a fight.

So today, reading through all this I realized, thinking back on my combat experiences, records and victories in nullsec/lowsec, this is what EvE needs, its something it needs rather desperately; a challenge, a new way of thinking for capital ships, no one should have it easy as I did in my early capital days, its just not right, its not fun for either side of the fight, I know this now, it is why Eve is dying :( so you must implement this.

This really is the step in the right way and does not need any rethinking, so please implement as soon as possible CCP Greyscale, I fully endorse this update!



PS Much Love Greyscale,

From An Alt xx

+1. This Cat gets it.


For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#5822 - 2014-10-03 18:24:55 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Hold on guys i have over 20 pages of tears whining and ragequit to read still before i can post something contructives. So everyone stop posting until i read it all


k thx :D


Then quit posting unconstructive nonsense like this right ? Your power of reasoning has humbled me.



I gave up trying to read it all and i have to leave for work in 30 mins.



So I leave with you this image of CCP's proposed changes to fanfest travel.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
flakeys
Doomheim
#5823 - 2014-10-03 18:25:13 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
flakeys wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
flakeys wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
I have a solution:

1. Remove concord and every other NPC combatant
2. Remove sec status of systems
3. evenly distribute resources like moon goo, ore, ice and so on
4. Make every system the same true sec
5. remove WH's
6. profit

ADAPT OR DIE........................



Ow i am sure you won't be playing the game with such changes , as you are allready freaking out like a little kid over one change .


I would play it more as you will ALL be valid targets with no NPC super weapon to protect you or hide down your little rabbit holes.



Yup because everyone who agrees with this change MUST be an empire dweller.I outdo you in : amount of isk killed, amount of ships killed and especially more important solokills and nope they where not in high-sec.

But please keep on being so naive as to think the only ones who can agree with this change are people who spend their time mining veldspar in empire , you're not the only naysayer making that assumption.


Congratulation now factor in the at least 3 years of PURE triage logistical game play that is with logistic ships you know them without guns, factor in the fact that these pixles have been failing to keep my attention for the past year at the lease.



You :'' You must be a carebear who never left empire because you agree with the change''
Me:'' Nope i was in empire when you didn't even know what eve was , here's proof ''
You:'' Yeah well , uhm well , but my killboardrecord is worse because of reasons''

So still you miss the point of my post , a LOT of people who agree with the changes are people who do have null experience and exactly THAT is the reason why they agree with these changes.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5824 - 2014-10-03 18:25:14 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.


I predict the bigger null sec alliances will move close to high sec like goons will move to ec-par in cloud ring and base out of there and then leave the deep space so small fish like me

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5825 - 2014-10-03 18:26:22 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Is a JF a strategic asset? Probably not.
Are stealth bombers strategic assets? No.

Putting JF's on fatigue schedule likely has to do with other in-game objectives.

Limiting JF / Rorqual range is to keep them from being used as battle taxis. In short, if they had longer range, they could be used to haul butt across the map via jump drive, then hop into waiting capitals to dunk someone with minimal fatigue. Keeping the range short makes that less practical, which makes using subcaps (or wormholes) to traverse long distances rapidly the optimal method. Since subcaps can be interdicted and delayed in a variety of ways, this adds to the game.
Ban JF from hauling ships and there's no need to kill the eve economy by nerfing the trade ships into oblivion.


Sorry bud this will not work. Most the markets you buy from are from players that haul the smaller ships around in JF. These are essential if you expect to fly tech 2 ships around the New Eden. JF are crucial to providing goods that EVERYONE, big and small, enjoy. Spend some time doing it and you realize how much the game relies on logistics.

I am a major hardcore logistics pilot. I'd rather have a half-working JF than none at all.
Resgo
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5826 - 2014-10-03 18:27:14 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Resgo wrote:
Please consider letting carriers and dreadnoughts use the high sec gates. Perhaps with certain module restrictions while they are in high sec such as preventing siege and triage modules from functioning and possibly preventing the launching of fighters. Otherwise purchasing capitals is going to become a very difficult and painful process when you have to worry about how you can get them back anywhere near friendly space. High sec becomes a complete barrier in places.


move the manufacturing of carriers to npc 0.0 near your space... or risk it and make them at home...

if you want to cheap out and buy them in low sec then you should have to take the risk to get them home


Let's pretend you're not in a major alliance, how do you go about acquiring them and moving them up when you can't put up a major fleet?
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5827 - 2014-10-03 18:27:55 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.


I predict the bigger null sec alliances will move close to high sec like goons will move to ec-par in cloud ring and base out of there and then leave the deep space so small fish like me


We are in agreement here. Instead of a blue donut it will be a ring of fire.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5828 - 2014-10-03 18:28:02 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.


I predict the bigger null sec alliances will move close to high sec like goons will move to ec-par in cloud ring and base out of there and then leave the deep space so small fish like me


and you will get to deep space...how?
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5829 - 2014-10-03 18:29:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kassasis Dakkstromri
So you know we're nearing 300 pages (inching ever so closer.... hold out inbeforelock just a little bit longerrrrr.....)

And I've only seen 1 CSM post... some sack hanger that clearly doesn't understand the reality of what's happening, and how the CSM he is part of totally got thrown under the bus to cover for this trainwreck.

Soooo... I'm thinkin' the rest of the CSM is like 'meh.. @#$! it' and is boycotting this thread?

Thoughts??


Oh btw if CCP doesn't loose subbs to rage quits because of this, then it might be a drop in US subbs due to Ebola (scary face) - Washington DC just reporting possible Ebola patient being admitted that traveled to Nigeria.

Just sayin'.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Ziirn
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#5830 - 2014-10-03 18:30:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ziirn
Awesome suggestion is awesome!!!

Floydy and Janus will buy free beer for all CCP employees at next fanfest!

edit: Chunky will buy non alcoholic for those that prefer that.....

Please stand by these changes now and don't scrap them!!!!
remus wulf
Deranged Chaos
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#5831 - 2014-10-03 18:31:05 UTC
Seems CCP stopped reading this at page 200 so this seems to be just a debate between ourselves at this point.

Maybe time to lock the thread if CCP have stopped reading the feedback they asked for !
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5832 - 2014-10-03 18:31:09 UTC
flakeys wrote:

You :'' You must be a carebear who never left empire because you agree with the change''
Me:'' Nope i was in empire when you didn't even know what eve was , here's proof ''
You:'' Yeah well , uhm well , but my killboardrecord is worse because of reasons''

So still you miss the point of my post , a LOT of people who agree with the changes are people who do have null experience and exactly THAT is the reason why they agree with these changes.


Employment history states you 2014 on this more than likely alt what's wrong can't post on your main ???

Lets see this amazing kill board while I continue to siege the thread.
Toriessian
Helion Production Labs
Independent Operators Consortium
#5833 - 2014-10-03 18:31:54 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

I don't see any simple way to give a BLOPs fatigue immunity AND keep it from being the new shuttle to get cap pilots across the map. The cost of a BLOPs hull isn't really that much for the larger groups and fatigue immunity would far outweigh the isk. So I agree, but there are complications.


Just make anyone whos used a black ops bridge/jump unable to make a regular bridge/jump during a given 24 hour period.

This way even if you can get back to your capitals, you're not jumping anywhere with them.

Every day I'm wafflin!
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5834 - 2014-10-03 18:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Resgo wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Resgo wrote:
Please consider letting carriers and dreadnoughts use the high sec gates. Perhaps with certain module restrictions while they are in high sec such as preventing siege and triage modules from functioning and possibly preventing the launching of fighters. Otherwise purchasing capitals is going to become a very difficult and painful process when you have to worry about how you can get them back anywhere near friendly space. High sec becomes a complete barrier in places.


move the manufacturing of carriers to npc 0.0 near your space... or risk it and make them at home...

if you want to cheap out and buy them in low sec then you should have to take the risk to get them home


Let's pretend you're not in a major alliance, how do you go about acquiring them and moving them up when you can't put up a major fleet?


Typically today i move my carrier and dread around using cyno alts...

going foward i will use an alt as a scout when i am using the gates and then when avoiding a gate camp i will use the scout a few jump ahead to light a cyno and jump past the camp... this will help reduce the timmer and keep my fatigue low.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5835 - 2014-10-03 18:33:00 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
flakeys wrote:

You :'' You must be a carebear who never left empire because you agree with the change''
Me:'' Nope i was in empire when you didn't even know what eve was , here's proof ''
You:'' Yeah well , uhm well , but my killboardrecord is worse because of reasons''

So still you miss the point of my post , a LOT of people who agree with the changes are people who do have null experience and exactly THAT is the reason why they agree with these changes.


Employment history states you 2014 on this more than likely alt what's wrong can't post on your main ???

Lets see this amazing kill board while I continue to siege the thread.


His corp history starts in 2004...
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5836 - 2014-10-03 18:33:24 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
So you know we're nearing 300 pages (inching ever so closer.... hold out inbeforelock just a little bit longerrrrr.....)

And I've only seen 1 CSM post... some sack hanger that clearly doesn't understand the reality of what's happening, and how the CSM he is part of totally got thrown under the bus to cover for this trainwreck.

Soooo... I'm thinkin' the rest of the CSM is like 'meh.. @#$! it' and is boycotting this thread?

Thoughts??


Oh btw if CCP doesn't loose subbs to rage quits because of this, then it might be a drop in US subbs due to Ebola (scary face) - Washington DC just reporting possible Ebola patient being admitted that traveled to Nigeria.

Just sayin'.


If we get to page 300 we all win free titans for life.

GOGOGOGO
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5837 - 2014-10-03 18:34:20 UTC
gascanu wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
For combat do what you will. For logistics lets think it through a bit better.


I predict the bigger null sec alliances will move close to high sec like goons will move to ec-par in cloud ring and base out of there and then leave the deep space so small fish like me


and you will get to deep space...how?


use a scout to setup a cyno past the gate camps at regional gates...

it can and will be done all you have to do is be patient and sneaky

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
#5838 - 2014-10-03 18:34:30 UTC
Moisturised Esophagus wrote:
90% of the people posting in favour of these changes are noob alts and hi/low sec dwellers.

Food for thought.


90% is tired of pseudo politics of status quo and renting culture. Nullsec is a pioneer area not a McMansion.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5839 - 2014-10-03 18:34:38 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

Here's the problem I see though. BLOPs have the ability to become the taxi for fleets of pilots to zip across new eden and nullify the fatigue issue. There would have to be a mechanism that prevents one of the big power blocks from just moving around eve in BLOPs to their cache of boringmobiles that have been pre staged.

That's the issue with giving JFs longer range, too.

Anything with offensive capability needs to have a Jump Fatigue modifier higher than the 0.1 that JFs currently have.

IMO, this includes Rorquals, since there's far too many folks out there gaming out Battle Rorq fits that throw 1k dps, have 2.2k spider tank and are cap stable. Basically more expensive versions of existing carriers, that will be far more mobile than any other combat capital post-nerf. Increasing their fatigue modifier to something like .25-.4 would probably allow them to continue to be solid support platforms with more mobility than carriers, while not becoming combat replacements in the same way.

BLOPS need a fatigue modifier, that's clear. Their use doesn't have the same Apex Force Unstoppable Blob issues that Supercaps and Titans (or capital blobs in general) have. Primarily because of the lack of effective logistics support. They are still jump capable combat boats though, and their increased range is definitely an advantage in this New Order. They can outpace any other teleportation based pursuer in the game under the new rules.

Something like a 0.4-0.7ish modifier would probably work? That would let them drop in, gank stuff, extract without having to wait obscene amounts of time. That or jump in, gank something, roam for a bit, gank something else, hop over the pursuers, gank something else, jump over there, gank something, then extract.

I love the idea of BLOPS forces being the true harrassment tools they should have been all along, until LOLCapsOnline and jump bridge networks made countering them too easy.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Chunky Lafunga
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#5840 - 2014-10-03 18:35:08 UTC
Ziirn wrote:
Awesome suggestion is awesome!!!

Floydy and Janus will buy free beer for all CCP employees at next fanfest!

edit: Chunky will buy non alcoholic for those that prefer that.....

Please stand by these changes now and don't scrap them!!!!


Yeah ok

Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork - Lord Emperor Skymarshal General

#EVE_NT Collides | Twitter :@_ ChunkyLafunga _