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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#5641 - 2014-10-03 15:55:40 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)


yeah thanks for not listening like I knew you would.
You start a **** storm then don’t want to ride it out to the end, You should be made to sit and read EVERY post in this thread then you might get some insight into what you are proposing.

Moisturised Esophagus wrote:
90% of the people posting in favour of these changes are noob alts and hi/low sec dwellers.

Food for thought.


This so much this^^^

Anthar Thebess wrote:
Moisturised Esophagus wrote:
90% of the people posting in favour of these changes are noob alts and hi/low sec dwellers.

Food for thought.

You are wrong.


So is your isotobe quote from the jump fuel consumption thread jus sayin

Anthar Thebess wrote:
Hello.

Currently there is no split between ship sizes.
Right now fuel consumption for travelling 1 Ly on all V jump drive skills looks like this :

Non Combat:
Jump Freighter : 775 isotopes
Ronqual : 500 isotopes

Combat:
Carrier : 500 isotopes
Dreadnought : 500 isotopes
SuperCarrier: 500 isotopes
Titan: 500 isotopes



Still siege green I brought enough strontium for days playing catch up is a *****
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5642 - 2014-10-03 15:56:24 UTC
DNSBLACK wrote:

So what you are saying is you weren't around when goon was the little guy. Now it is all making sense.

the free trade zone had crashed, burned, and become a joke loooooooooooooooong before we defeated bob
Dalia Rensini
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5643 - 2014-10-03 15:56:45 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Yugo Reventlov wrote:
As an exercise, I invite every nullsec inhabitant to check how their Jump Freighter supply route would look from empire to where they live.

I did the same for a previous home I had in Stain: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/jump/Anshar,055/Paye:W-Q233

What used to be 3 jumps - meaning I needed 4 cyno toons - is now 10 jumps. I have a feeling I'd be very Fatigued by the time I got to my destination.

Take stargates from Efa -> 3-FKCZ -> I1Y-IU -> C-7SBM. Jump to 49-U6U. Gate to 4-07MU. Jump FAT-6P, T-8UOF, W-Q233.

You save a lot of time, use 4 jumps instead of 10, a lot less accumulated jump fatigue even if jumping on timer cooldown, and a lot less isotope usage.

I invite every nullsec inhabitant to realize that you can actually use stargates after the changes, and factor that into your new routes.

Yes, that means alliances with deep null holdings will need to secure their lines of communication accordingly. This might even, god forbid, drive some content.



Do you see anyone in null sec using gates in anything else other than inty / covops / fleet?

Why do you think anyone would want to use a gate (in a capital ship for several bil that cannot defend itself) and die to a small camp?
Jethro Winchester
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5644 - 2014-10-03 15:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Jethro Winchester
Alp Khan wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I really think the solution to increasing density in 0.0 is by seeding "freeport NPC outposts" all over 0.0 space.

These stations would act as conflict drivers like the old 10/10 complexes...

These freeport stations would be non conquerable and have combat missions from level I-V....

There is also a chance that they would be seeded in systems that already have player owned outposts.




At some point in the history of Goonswarm, long before I started to play EVE, the idea of a freeport was given thought to and tried. Unfortunately, it did not end well...


Personally I think roughly 50% of the space currently in game should be removed and what's left should be moved somewhat closer. I'm thinking somewhere around 25% of the removed systems should be lowsec, the other 75% should be null. System upgrades should also probably go the way of the Dodo with all systems being viable homes for a moderately sized group to varying degree's. I also think that in this case the removal of jump bridges from the game would be a good idea. Though player built stargates would still absolutely be entertaining.

Sov structures need to be completely re-done in such a way that it is relatively easy to lose your space if you aren't pretty johnny-on-the-spot. I honestly have no idea what the details on this part should look like though. Player built stations should still take a decent amount of time to grab just to give players a chance to evac, however I think it would be best if the new system owners could dock. Perhaps the station would become "Free" with nobody controlling it until somebody goes through the grind.

Capitals should absolutely be re-balanced with JF's, Rorq's, and Blops keeping something close to their pre-nerf ranges. Carriers, dreads, supers, and titans however would see their ranges nerfed to somewhere between 5 and 10ly with either no jump timer or a short ten minute timer.

The most important part is that you can't do this in 500,000 patches over the next year. Whatever changes are implemented to shake the game up need to take place at once. If that means it's six months down the road before we see anything it's better then six months of miserable boredom.

I would also like to say that there are obviously other things that would need implementing to make these changes viable. But in my opinion this would make for a good baseline to work off of.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#5645 - 2014-10-03 15:58:10 UTC
During longer deliberation while pounding a fallen's skull in on Destiny i had a minor realization, This change really doesn't hurt low sec at all, and given thats where i live i dont really care about the changes, sure i cant carrier jump to next to jita anymore BUT i do have alts that can bring me stuff to the bordering highsec. And wormhole routes would make logistics on some days even simpler. Though granted the capital market crash is going to happen regardless.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Thead Enco
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5646 - 2014-10-03 15:58:24 UTC
Bertucio wrote:
Best threadnought ever. Love the fact the null-bear alliances are bawling their brains out, like spoiled children.


We've upgraded to THREADATAR
Kalissis
#5647 - 2014-10-03 15:59:03 UTC
Changes lead to adoption as a reaction to them, that is the circle of EVE, without it EVE would be just another WOW grinding bosses for a better swords. Therefore we need changes, even as drastic as those proposed, it will lead us to more fun, more deeper and meaningful gameplay (ingame as oog).

I very welcome those changes! CCP is on the right path, you can see this alone on how fun it is to read 200 pages full of tears, with every post I read containing virtual tears I really enjoy EVE even more, so thanks CCP, and thank you blue donut for so many enjoyable internet spaceships interactions (for now outside the game).
Big Lynx
#5648 - 2014-10-03 16:00:21 UTC
CCP will take years to mop up those load of tears.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#5649 - 2014-10-03 16:00:37 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
All complain the game is stagnating and CCP want to throw a giant boulder in the tranquil lake and see what happens.

Leaving the game as is, EvE stays stagnant for sure. Going out to the wild MAY fail to change anything but MAY also work.

Which of the two approaches is more practical? Stay as is as you say and sit in a stagnant ethernity or at least try doing something?

"Something must be done! This is something! It must be done!"

And so civilizations have collapsed.


Better die trying than embracing a slow decline.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#5650 - 2014-10-03 16:00:53 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
I really think the solution to increasing density in 0.0 is by seeding "freeport NPC outposts" all over 0.0 space.

These stations would act as conflict drivers like the old 10/10 complexes...

These freeport stations would be non conquerable and have combat missions from level I-V....

There is also a chance that they would be seeded in systems that already have player owned outposts.




At some point in the history of Goonswarm, long before I started to play EVE, the idea of a freeport was given thought to and tried. Unfortunately, it did not end well...


Thats the thing though the freeport will be non conquerable and act as conflict drivers

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5651 - 2014-10-03 16:02:16 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:


Also, such a scheme hurts the small entities and guys who are unable to secure logistical lines!


At least that's the propaganda you're pushing today.

Like you've ever been concerned with "small entities".


Propaganda? Please tell us how it's propaganda, and meanwhile, explain to us how a small group without numbers and resources will ever secure a gate to gate logistical line into the deep null!

The mere fact that you cannot explain how this is propaganda, or how you cannot explain how a solo guy or a small entity can ever do the logistical work you appear to be so keen on is telling. You have only been pushing an emotional, shallow and pedantic knee-jerk reaction here, probably dreaming to yourself how these changes will make you or whatever group you are involved with being the top dogs in null or something.

Your romantic daydreams, while quite adorable, has nothing to do with the facts and problems we are discussing here.


Your new found altruism for small entities is appreciated.

Yesterday we were all just pubbies.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5652 - 2014-10-03 16:02:22 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
Bertucio wrote:
Best threadnought ever. Love the fact the null-bear alliances are bawling their brains out, like spoiled children.


We've upgraded to THREADATAR

Long may Threadatar reign over the lesser threadnaughts.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5653 - 2014-10-03 16:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.

If that letter is real then it really depends on the size of the alliance and number of systems they intend to have capitals in. Most players have at most one carrier and one dread. Telling them all to suddenly acquire a few hundred capitals and dozens of capital alts each is simply a joke.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#5654 - 2014-10-03 16:05:04 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
voetius wrote:
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
You know some words and phrases from CCP Greyscales devblog really eat at me:

"...we would anticipate..."

"This seems likely to ..."

"... ,we see the potential for..."

"... it seems plausible that..."

"... , but we don't want to make any firm predictions in this area."


Is it just me, or does this type of language really bother anyone else regarding such an important change?


I think he is being realistic. In a complex system such as EVE or other virtual world, any non-trivial change is going to have unforeseen consequences. The best you can do once you have determined what you think is the right approach to a change is to eliminate obvious loopholes and consider edge cases - the community feedback in threads like is and CSM feednback to a working group are ways to serve that purpose.

Other people than you have said that CCP needs to come up with a "better" plan or test things or simulate them : unfortunately there is only so much you can do along those lines because when the players get involved with changes like this "emergent" effects will come out.



Okay - but with no economist on staff anymore, is there 'anyone' reputable and can actually speak with authority that something like this isn't going to throw the virtual economy into a recession/depression??

I don't trust that CCP isn't simply HOPING that their space magiks developement alchemy... suddenly Caps can gate jump nao! solution, and the warbling comments I quoted ... well they don't leave one with a lot of confidence on how scientific this theory crafting process was.

I miss the old Devs Cry


I'll speak with authority for you. Ahem.... (phew I'm a little nervous doing this...) OK, um... here goes....

I'm not quitting because someone pee'd down the blue donut hole. I didn't quit on warp to zero. I didn't quit on the speed nerf. I didn't quit when they introduced cyno jammers. I didn't quit when they ruined wh w/ the mass range garbage.

It's a good game. It's a sandbox. Null sux so folks are playing somewhere else. CCP's taking a wrecking ball to the null status quo. At the end of the day we'll all still be able to make our own fun somewhere in eve. If null collapses and everyone playing out there quits... guess what.... someone else will move out there and start over. You power block guys need to get over yourselves. They could ban you all and the net effect would be to provide a clean starting point for a lot of other players.



Let me give you a parllel: Football (either kind - you choose or put in tennis or whatever... it really doesn't matter)

We wake up tomorrow and football is gone. Just gone. No stadiums, no leagues.... nothing. The owners would be devastated. The major players would have no jobs. The fans would feel betrayed, adrift, whatever.

We wake up the day after tomorrow. That's the moral of the story. We wake up. It's not over. The world doesn't end. We just keep going w/out football. A lot of folks really care about and love football, but we can all live without it.

It's the same w/ null power blocks. At the end of the day we don't need them to play eve. If they all instantly vanish there is still a good (many would argue better) game left behind.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5655 - 2014-10-03 16:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:


Also, such a scheme hurts the small entities and guys who are unable to secure logistical lines!


At least that's the propaganda you're pushing today.

Like you've ever been concerned with "small entities".


Propaganda? Please tell us how it's propaganda, and meanwhile, explain to us how a small group without numbers and resources will ever secure a gate to gate logistical line into the deep null!

The mere fact that you cannot explain how this is propaganda, or how you cannot explain how a solo guy or a small entity can ever do the logistical work you appear to be so keen on is telling. You have only been pushing an emotional, shallow and pedantic knee-jerk reaction here, probably dreaming to yourself how these changes will make you or whatever group you are involved with being the top dogs in null or something.

Your romantic daydreams, while quite adorable, has nothing to do with the facts and problems we are discussing here.


Your new found altruism for small entities is appreciated.

Yesterday we were all just pubbies.


I implore you to find a single statement coming from me from the past that contradicts the stance I'm taking today. You just can't remove your tribal set of spectacles, and think beyond your factional affiliation in video game.
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5656 - 2014-10-03 16:06:24 UTC
Honestly for blops, just let them be exempt from the changes, also buff the HP by 10% so they might have a little more staying power. Scan res buffs are welcome as well :D
cherry popping
#5657 - 2014-10-03 16:06:26 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Just received this:

Quote:
Caps
From: xxxxx
To: xxxxx
Dear alliance members

In light of the proposed changes to capital deployment, we have at leadership level decided to focus our activities on capital manufacturing for the next 3 months.

I want every alliance member concentrating on:
1. buying capital pilots that are currently going on firesale
2. buying and building capitals

A list of strategic systems will be posted on our forums of where to store your capitals. Many players are claiming this change will stop force projection, we thought about it and rather than not adapt our aim is to have a capital fleet at our disposal in any area of the map. Our solution is quite simple focus on capital readiness by having capitals "to-go" in any area of eve. It will only take you 20 minutes - 30 minutes to use the jump bridges to high sec and move your pod across New Eden to our strategically placed capitals.

You all know me and I am all about adapting, this is us adapting.

See you on the battlefield
Alliance leaders


Gotta love this.

If that letter is real then it really depends on the size of the alliance and number of systems they intend to have capitals in. Most players have at most one carrier and one dread. Telling them all to suddenly acquire a few hundred capitals and dozens of capital arts each is simply a joke.


well if you can't prove your point you better fake some evidence
remus wulf
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5658 - 2014-10-03 16:06:39 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
remus wulf wrote:
264 pages of comments in 3 days and that number will rise significantly by the time you implement these changes.
That speaks volumes at the amount of disgruntled players your about to cause to quit.

That speaks volumes at the amount of whining entitled crybabies that refuse to adapt, yes. Suck it up buttercup.

In the meantime, folks from other forums are jumping with joy and resubbing due to the new life being breathed into the game.

We'll live, and enjoy the game all the more for your absence. Ta!



who said anything about me quitting i never did !

BUT many many will quit over this !
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5659 - 2014-10-03 16:07:09 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
Bertucio wrote:
Best threadnought ever. Love the fact the null-bear alliances are bawling their brains out, like spoiled children.


We've upgraded to THREADATAR

*looks at nano Nerf*
Raine Marelwe
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5660 - 2014-10-03 16:08:50 UTC
I can't even begin to conjecture on how theses changes might ultimately play out... but I'm glad to see that the game design philosophy behind Eve may be starting to recover from the destructive influence of "BattleRifles Online"-type devs like Soundwave.

Keep this up and I just might start holding my breath for some actual consequences for criminal behavior in hisec! Dare I dream, maybe even some risk??