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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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DON't SHOOTMEPLZ
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5361 - 2014-10-03 12:16:17 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
CCP Greyscale
Can we get bigger nerf for Titan bridge?

I'm not stating smaller range, but additional rule :
- you cannot bridge people between regions.

This will create more nice choke points, and introduce new mechanic to the game, and put more pressure about ground control.
Capitals might jump between regions, but sub capital fleet WILL have to go by the regional gates.


I believe most regional gates are > 5 LY.
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5362 - 2014-10-03 12:16:44 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
Please Turn wrote:
Zhul Chembull wrote:
Again

Just popping in to throw an idea I already have and to state an opinion. The changes are not good, regardless to what anyone says.

words



This thread keeps delivering. For the third time, I can't stop laughing Pirate

Just popping in to throw an idea I already have and to state an opinion. The changes are EXCELLENT, regardless to what anyone says.

What do you do in eve?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5363 - 2014-10-03 12:17:42 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.

Ah yes, "uproar."

Well let's look at the "uproar."

Endie, one of your leaders, seems to support it.
So does le reddit.
So too does the bulk of this day 0 straw poll on the subject.

I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary.
Verantis Cristo
Unsung Heroes
#5364 - 2014-10-03 12:19:19 UTC
Hey Greyscale,

Here's a question for you, why did you decide to go all in on 5ly for max jump potential, wouldn't it have been better to drop it to 10Ly or 7.5Ly

Going all in on 5LY has made a very visible clear negative response from a large number of people. Bare in mind this doesn't affect everyone, I here people in highsec being happy about this, well guess what it doesn't affect them almost as much as those living in npc and 0.0 nullsec.

Look at the responses on this forum post, 5LY is a major castration.

I understand what you are trying to do but you can do the same thing by just reducing the jump range to 7.5 or 10LY, these distances will both allow for your plans limiting the caps and super blobs and also making sov more valuable.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5365 - 2014-10-03 12:20:11 UTC
remus wulf wrote:
What cap pilot in their right mind is going to risk billions of isk to use gates ? Come on seriously people.



Every single one that has brains. You will see fleets of carriers traveling trough gates for example. And then they can jump gate and cyno out immediately with more safety than before they had the ability to jump gates.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5366 - 2014-10-03 12:20:52 UTC


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.[/quote]

Uproar of the few that do JF work alone. They want JF work to involve more people. make more peopel play the game.

There are MANY MANY TIMES more peopel interested in the chance to pirate and HUNT freighters than there are Jump frighter pilots in eve. SO YOUR JF pilot group is a minority as well.
[/quote]

Good point on the number of JF pilots and that is about it. The JF pilots, although substantially few, are significantly more important as they move goods and provide markets across eve. Without their ability to move items, markets dry up and become stagnant. The point is that hamper movement is hampering the flow of goods across eve.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5367 - 2014-10-03 12:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Alp Khan
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.

Uproar of the few that do JF work alone. They want JF work to involve more people. make more peopel play the game.

There are MANY MANY TIMES more peopel interested in the chance to pirate and HUNT freighters than there are Jump frighter pilots in eve. SO YOUR JF pilot group is a minority as well.


With the low concurrent logins, please tell me how this will make increased group work involving JFs possible.

Flying a JF is already not a solo effort under the current system. It requires multiple characters.

No one is going to risk a loot pinata that's hauling billions taking gates without the knowledge that the route is completely safe.

Industrialists and logisticians are more likely to just relocate to empire than having to deal with the nightmare you seem to be having a wet dream about. Or worse, they'll just quit playing.

You are exceptionally naive if you seriously think that forcing logistics to face risk even from a small gang is going to make them smile and force them into offering multi billion haulers as sacrificial lamb for you. Scarcity of materials will become a reality. If not that, logisticians will start pushing their losses onto the end consumer. These will all negatively impact everybody's ability to attain T2 goods, which are consumed EVERYWHERE.

Your overtly simplistic expectations are adorable, but unrealistic. Economics, production and logistics do not work like that.
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5368 - 2014-10-03 12:21:30 UTC
DON't SHOOTMEPLZ wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
CCP Greyscale
Can we get bigger nerf for Titan bridge?

I'm not stating smaller range, but additional rule :
- you cannot bridge people between regions.

This will create more nice choke points, and introduce new mechanic to the game, and put more pressure about ground control.
Capitals might jump between regions, but sub capital fleet WILL have to go by the regional gates.


I believe most regional gates are > 5 LY.


Yep, some exceptions exist where 2 regions hug each other by less than 5 LY while the regional gate is doing a 10+ LY hop.
Nelly Ooze
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5369 - 2014-10-03 12:21:41 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:


That is the main point Nelly. CCP, and the community, realizes that people would need to dedicate themselves to a specific gameplay locked in by the area they are in. If they want to change, they can use an alt, or travel via gates. This is not a issue of the amount of time we can play, its the speed we can reach anywhere to back people up. We should not be able to traverse a universe in 15 minutes. Yes this removes instant gratification, but this also localizes fights so you won't have to go very far to get that gratification. If you want fights, you know where to go. If you don't, you know where to go too. Its a decision on what you want to do, and you might have to commit to it for a set amount of time instead of just taking the teleportation route to obtain fun immediately. The issue with instant gratification in this case, is that everybody is doing the exact same thing too, which leads to dog piles, clusters of hundreds and thousands of people in a place, with 10% tidi, and nothings moving, with escalating forces dumping ontop of each other, till nothing happens and people go home.

I was actually considering why jump bridges had the change until I listened to podside. 1 Guy traversed half the universe in 16 minutes using jump bridge networks. Something like 10 to 20 regions bypassed in total.

Yea I get why the Developers are adding it to the Jump Bridge Network. People need to start using gates again.


I understand all of that, but I personally feel that there must be some kind of a balance between the fun the game provides to me, and the fact that it will become my second job. Yes, deploying in 30 seconds to another part of space is bad, but one change at the time would be nicer. I don't want to spend an hour moving, or have more than one active (subbed) alt to play this game.

If CCP feels that's the only way of doing things, well, I'm for it. But players will have less fun playing EVE, I guess. It's still a videogame, right?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5370 - 2014-10-03 12:21:56 UTC
The Slayer wrote:
Sym Biotic wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea?
Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.



At what length of time does a game stop being a game? With the timer capping at a month will we see people unsub to wait the month, since you have said that it will keep counting down while unsubbed? Jump/capital skills have already taken months/years to train only to then have potential month long cds. I think you guys should really look at a skill refund if players want it, this is a really radical change that trashed some peoples entire enjoyment of the game. To then spit in their face and tell them well just train something else then is just adding insult to injury.

On a completely different note, the continuous comments pointing out player stargates being implemented seems super silly as they nerf jump bridges (player stargates 1.0). Rename it how ever you want, it just seems like poor management to add the same mechanic twice only call it something else.


It baffles me that anyone would think that a system whereby you cannot engage in fleet combat in your vessel for a MONTH is acceptable or warranted. Supercapital pilots are going to be resubbed for fights and left to stagnate otherwise, moreso than they are right now.


QUOTING SOMEOEN THAT CANNOT READ! The max time you can stay unable to jump is 3 days, and you need to be utter reckless to get to that level. 1 month FATIGUE does not mean 1 month TIMER to jump.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5371 - 2014-10-03 12:23:08 UTC
Alp Khan wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.

Uproar of the few that do JF work alone. They want JF work to involve more people. make more peopel play the game.

There are MANY MANY TIMES more peopel interested in the chance to pirate and HUNT freighters than there are Jump frighter pilots in eve. SO YOUR JF pilot group is a minority as well.


With the low concurrent logins, please tell me how this will make increased group work involving JFs possible. No one is going to risk a loot pinata that's hauling billions taking gates without the knowledge that the route is completely safe.

Industrialists are more likely to just relocate to empire than having to deal with the nightmare you seem to be having a wet dream about. Or worse, they'll just quit playing.

You are exceptionally naive if you seriously think that forcing logistics to face risk even from a small gang is going to make them smile and push them into offering multi billion haulers as sacrificial lamb for you.

Your overtly simplistic expectations are adorable, but unrealistic. Economics, production and logistics do not work like that.



So your solution is to let the game die the way it is going? great businness man you are.

These changes have a good chance. Not changing has zero chance.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Zhul Chembull
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5372 - 2014-10-03 12:23:08 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.

Ah yes, "uproar."

Well let's look at the "uproar."

Endie, one of your leaders, seems to support it.
So does le reddit.
So too does the bulk of this day 0 straw poll on the subject.

I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary.


It is not a number of people that support the pole really friend, its the mechanic behind it. It will fail in its current state. However, we just have to see the number of subs as of now and two months from now. Number analysis far outweigh emotion outcries correct ?
Please Turn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5373 - 2014-10-03 12:23:09 UTC
Monasucks wrote:
pleae ccp don't!
F***up all pilots who have skilled capitals for years - many thanks.

Sadly my accounts are paid at least for 6 month... but they will not be re subbed.

Just nerfing isn't a solution! give other and more content.. remove blue list for alliances and corps, limit player count in alliances to let's say 2k..
add much more npc space..

but don't **** everyhing up.

if you want caps not to jump.. than give them more options etc.



or you could simply ask your coalition/alliance/whatever leaders to do that, right?

Join TheTuskers, travel to exotic distant lands, meet exciting unusual people and ... kill them!
FraXy
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#5374 - 2014-10-03 12:23:34 UTC
The Slayer wrote:
Sym Biotic wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea?
Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.



At what length of time does a game stop being a game? With the timer capping at a month will we see people unsub to wait the month, since you have said that it will keep counting down while unsubbed? Jump/capital skills have already taken months/years to train only to then have potential month long cds. I think you guys should really look at a skill refund if players want it, this is a really radical change that trashed some peoples entire enjoyment of the game. To then spit in their face and tell them well just train something else then is just adding insult to injury.

On a completely different note, the continuous comments pointing out player stargates being implemented seems super silly as they nerf jump bridges (player stargates 1.0). Rename it how ever you want, it just seems like poor management to add the same mechanic twice only call it something else.


It baffles me that anyone would think that a system whereby you cannot engage in fleet combat in your vessel for a MONTH is acceptable or warranted. Supercapital pilots are going to be resubbed for fights and left to stagnate otherwise, moreso than they are right now.


Nooo. Not the supercap pilots!
Them not being thrown around willy wonka will be the ruin of Good Fights™.

On a less serious note when can we expect ECM to be buffed, because it is seriously underpowered when there's a chance single targets can get lock against 5 EC-300's.

One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Anthar Thebess
#5375 - 2014-10-03 12:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
DON't SHOOTMEPLZ wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
CCP Greyscale
Can we get bigger nerf for Titan bridge?

I'm not stating smaller range, but additional rule :
- you cannot bridge people between regions.

This will create more nice choke points, and introduce new mechanic to the game, and put more pressure about ground control.
Capitals might jump between regions, but sub capital fleet WILL have to go by the regional gates.


I believe most regional gates are > 5 LY.

For example .
You cannot bridge people between Catch and Stain, Catch and Providence etc.

This is again very important change.
Also inability to make JB between regions could be interesting.
Let only capitals be able to cross space between regions.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#5376 - 2014-10-03 12:24:42 UTC
Celly S wrote:
i love how all capitals are now being put into a higher risk situation because of these changes yet the ability to BO hot drop someone is remaining virtually unchanged... LOL

its almost as though someone wants to see more stuff get blown up or something...

idk, maybe its just me...
o/
Celly Smunt


Are you being sarcastic?

I don't see how you expect capitals to be any more at risk after the patch than they were before it.
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#5377 - 2014-10-03 12:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jin Kugu
These changes are obviously poorly thought out and very unelegant. The math is bad, the new mechanics are not intuitive and the results are unpredictable but game changing.

It feels like ccp is just taking a sledgehammer to nullsec without looking at the consequences. These changes address a lot of mechanics that are connected but not similar. BO, carriers, dreads, supers and jumpfreighters all fill different roles and their ability to move around the map should reflect that.

CCP should put these changes on hold, define their goals and ask for input from the player base.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5378 - 2014-10-03 12:24:58 UTC
Zhul Chembull wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Alp Khan wrote:


Your real life friends are hardly a serious metric or statistic that could be taken into account. Look at the uproar in this thread citing the logistical difficulties that will stem from Grayscale's ~genius idea~. Now, that is a serious metric.

Ah yes, "uproar."

Well let's look at the "uproar."

Endie, one of your leaders, seems to support it.
So does le reddit.
So too does the bulk of this day 0 straw poll on the subject.

I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary.


It is not a number of people that support the pole really friend, its the mechanic behind it. It will fail in its current state. However, we just have to see the number of subs as of now and two months from now. Number analysis far outweigh emotion outcries correct ?



No it will not fail. See I put as much value as your baseless response. Alone it probably woudl fail, but there will be other changes comming. INCLUDING PLAYER MADE STARGATES!!!!!!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
xanderr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5379 - 2014-10-03 12:25:19 UTC
WTS 1 Nyx and 1 Nomad **** this game, Good luck CCP hope you enjoy another 10 years of continual growth and year on year profit Roll
Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON.
Get Off My Lawn
#5380 - 2014-10-03 12:25:50 UTC
Please Turn wrote:
Monasucks wrote:
pleae ccp don't!
F***up all pilots who have skilled capitals for years - many thanks.

Sadly my accounts are paid at least for 6 month... but they will not be re subbed.

Just nerfing isn't a solution! give other and more content.. remove blue list for alliances and corps, limit player count in alliances to let's say 2k..
add much more npc space..

but don't **** everyhing up.

if you want caps not to jump.. than give them more options etc.



or you could simply ask your coalition/alliance/whatever leaders to do that, right?


sadly i can't but remove this feature out of the game and fine.
let's say each charater can have like 10 or 20 ppl on a personal blue list but not corps nor alliances, forthose blue lists are not working!

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