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Yes. HTFU

I think it was ABBADON21 who said it best. In his words:

"CCP knows that Sov is broken, and if they aren’t furiously working on a fix they will continue to lose players to stagnation.

"...Which leads us to Force Projection.

"... if you roam with 10-15 BS you MUST have backup on stand by and even then it’s a 50/50 chance PL or some other group drops 50-100 supers on your fleet.

"Today you attack a procurer and get Titan Bridged by 100 people.

"So is EVE a game where you must be the biggest alliance with the most numbers and moons+renters or go home?

"OR is EVE a game where there is a counter to everything? An Interstellar Chess Match.

..."

But now people, please.... More timers? More complexity and more limitations? I don't think this is the answer. And the reason its not the answer is simple: it doesn't make the game more intuitive, it doesn't really make it more dynamic and interesting either.

To me Force Projection just lacks a correct risk vs reward ratio. How could it be that its possible to "Teleport" an entire fleet with innumerous Super Carriers and Titans with virtually no risk? An individual can light up a Cyno and have an entire fleet jump to it and there is no downside, inconvenience or risk to this huge tactical advantage? The timers approach I believe is an effort to adjust this deficiency but I think its possible to do it a better way, a more interesting way.

What if something like this happened:

You and your Corp mates are out on an Ishtar roam in low-sec. You run into a small gang who engage you. Almost immediatly you see a Cyno go up.

Now you know that with the new game mechanics you either take down the Cyno ship or run, and you don't have much time to think about it. You know that for every Light Year of travel, they will be in jump for 30 seconds. So if they are jumping from 3 Light Years, they will land in a minute and a half, if they are jumping from 10 ly, it will take 5 minutes. You don't know how far away they are but you better hurry and kill that Cyno ship or run.

Now if you succeed in destroying the Cyno ship, this will result in spreading out all the ships that were in a jump at random in different systems between their point of origin and destination. Obviously, this could be a very hazardous situation and some would almost certainly lose their ships to pirates if this happened. The Titan pilots would most certainly log off, some of the others would quickly burn out back to their home systems. You and your corp mates would kill the rest of the small gang with ease.

But of course, the small gang knows how this works and as soon as the Cyno is up, their tactic changes slightly and they direct a lot of their resources to protecting their Cyno ship cause they know that you will now make it primary for your fleet to kill. If you go for broke and stick it out and try to destroy that Cyno ship, it could be costly, because you could be in for a surprise when that fleet lands.

So what's it gonna be? Are you going to run? Or are you gonna try to destroy the Cyno ship before the first ships come through that Cyno? You feeling lucky?

Now some of the other things to take into consideration:

- If you are in the enemies home turf, I don't think it will be that big of a deal if you break their Cyno in time because they probably won't lose any ships. That's a good thing, its called the "Home advantage"

- This makes the game more intuitive and interesting, all kinds of strategies can evolve from something like this.

- It makes the game more dynamic and players will have to decide what to do on-the-fly, in the heat of things, rather than try to plan things out before-hand and do all kinds of logistical work (which gets boring fast).

- The smaller Cyno ships could jump others faster and the larger ones slower, easy to balance.

- If you're an FC or a cap pilot, how much confidence do you think you have to have to take that kind of risk? One second you're in jump, the next you're in a random system all by yourself.... "Oh crap! Cyno ship went down!"

- You will still have to allow Capitals to use gates in low and null

- You may still want to nerf range, but you shouldn't have to nerf it as much because the longer the jump is, the greater the risk will be.

Please have scaling Jump Fatigue by Ship class, with the fatigue level possibly tied to the largest ship in the fleet when bridging or in other applicable situations.

This way it will add even more decision making to the process where smaller ship types will be able to travel across larger distances just like warp mechanics, and larger ship types will require higher commitment.

This will allow fights to happen across a broader area. I fear that alliances will have trouble generating fights in their local area after the "conquering" phase is over because they will have capital superiority in the local area to the extant that capitals will be abused in small engagements heavily.

I'm saying that owning your own empire out in the lawless wildlands of space, particularly those lawless wilds of space far from empire, SHOULD NOT BE A CAKEWALK.

If you don't want to go through the effort involved in living out there, don't. Other people will, no worries.

If you don't want to adapt to the changes coming down the pipe, fine. Don't. Other people will, no worries.

What burns me is when folks scream bloody murder when it's not easy anymore. Like they're entitled to simple, easy logistics out in the hinterlands.

Get over yourself already. HTFU, lazy ass nullbears.

Even if JF were only 7.5ly we could still go around using the old Titan route, which is only like 12-14 jumps. I already have the full chain (howdy neighbor!). But 5 ly makes it 28 jumps and impossible with jump fatigue. There is no way I am working 40 hours a week at EVE - I cannot do that.... and live.

The logistics effects are good and it's all part of the same thing.

Ask yourself this: Why don't we just have Interbus ship everything people want everywhere in the galaxy instantly with no cost?

I mean, it's just meaningless time wasted right? Pointless complication, flying ships to do logistics.
And POS? "have you ever run a 50000 tower pos system blahblahblah" Jesus. We should probably just make them not need fuel at all. There, another boring gameplay aspect cured.

And why do we even bother with cyno's? Why can't I just sit in my station and click a place on the map and magically arrive there? That would be such good gameplay. So much less time wasted.


Just as regionalization needs to happen in regards to conflict and combat, it does also with logistics. Jita is basically projected everywhere. Hell, it's easier to get at-cost modules in some stations on the edge of null than it is in some highsec locations for the exact reasons why JFs need to take a hit.

You'll still be able to move things, if you want.

Now there is definitely an issue with the self-sustainability of null space. But those issues need to be addressed independently of these projection issues. For change to happen, you have to take the first step. This is a really good first step to be taking.

For those that just don't want change at all? Too bad.
What about the content created by gate activity?
What if we end up in place where people run convoys like way back in the day?
Some people used to like that (running them and interdicting them).
For every JF pilot crying in his beer right now there is easily a person that will enjoy the outcome of these changes.

Wow, could you imagine logistics combat interactions that go beyond people suiciding freighters in highsec with destroyers?
Nah... could never happen.
That's the apex of the game right there, as good as it can ever possibly get.


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The bottom line is this: dynamic gameplay

Not everything is supposed to be easy. In fact, a game without challenges and hurdles just sucks. It's part of what makes a game A GAME. It IS the environment.

Now... some would have you think the game itself should pose no hurdles, that any challenge should be presented by other players.
Those people usually have an upper hand and just don't want THEIR game being bothered by that of others. They are comfortable, stagnant, booooooring. My gameplay, and the gameplay of tens of thousands of others does not occur to them. They are both selfish and short-sighted. You are.

It's all that is wrong with this game, and people of that mentality should no longer should be listened to. We see where the result of an easier game has gotten us. Boring stalemate. Whether it's hotdropping carriers on frigates or Jita on your doorstep with basically no risk or pain-in-the-ass involved.

You really don't know what's good for this game.
You have a complete inability to look at tomorrow, your brain is stuck in the present. You simply cannot imagine a better environment.

This isnt' just about combat. Regionalization needs to be all-encompasing. It's bigger than what your thinking. JF's aren't an oversight or shortsighted here, they are a crucial part of the nerf.

You can move 620 million units of tritanium in compressed veldspar in a single JF load, assuming 88% refine and 320,000m3 capacity on the JF.

How much stuff do you need to build that requires that much raw material?

Fleets can move about just fine, even after these changes. You can use stargates to cross the entirety of New Eden and never gain a single second of Jump Fatigue, even in your supers and titans.

We're entitled to a game that doesn't suck because of tedious bullcrap.

FACT: Jita runs will be necessary to get all the things that nullsec lacks, and to sell what it has
FACT: With 5 ly range, 28 mids to outer passage makes for a 14 hour round trip
FACT: That's 42 man hours per week for a small corp living on the edge of nullsec to transport 1 million m3/week
FACT: Even with the gate option, using only jumps is optimal, "best practices" play.
FACT: Some regions of nullsec will not even have the best practices option

PROBLEM: Un-nerfed jump freighters can be used for power projection by carrying ships
SOLUTION: Make jump freighters exempt from fatigue and range nerf when no ships are in the hold, or make them exempt and no longer capable of carrying packaged ships ever

So many people are whining about how their logistics will be broken and they will spend even more time doing "boring things" in EVE.

Well guess what, you need to get of your comfy zone!!! You need to think more about what exactly is changing, need for logistics will go back, think LOCALLY! Adopt! Produce locally! Play Eve as it suppose to be played, have fun instead of doing "boring" logistics, no one is forcing you to do logistics.

Thats what this changes are all about, your alliance should be smaller, your logistics will be less!