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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4641 - 2014-10-03 00:54:29 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Outer Passage is 28 mids from Jita with the range nerf, and I need to make 3 runs per week. Be a sport and bring daddy an estimate of THAT, would you?


Well if you wait the timer every jump.. you are looking at about 2.8hrs
Adwokat Diabla
WeebFleet
Tsundere Triad
#4642 - 2014-10-03 00:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Adwokat Diabla
Veskrashen wrote:
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
You are missing the point entirely. People who try to take the space from us will simply be hellcamped right out of nullsec. (Which is what we did last time) We will not be interested in actually developing the space, which ultimately will lead to nullsec becoming alot more empty, with only massive coalitions able to live in null, because the small guys will just get crushed right back to lowsec. How is this beneficial to the game? When you dramatically increase the barriers to entry all you do is make coalitions become bigger and less people willing to come into null.

And this is different from the current state of nullsec play how, exactly...?

Oh, and while you're hellcamping one crew in here, that means your supers / titans / caps aren't in a position to rapidly deploy over there to hellcamp that other crew in. Which, you know, is kinda the point of these changes - to force you to pick your fights.

You won't be able to be everywhere you want to be anymore.


It isn't different at all from current nullsec play. Also, almost nobody has multiple deployments to attack on multiple angles, and even when they do, it doesn't really matter anyways. So long as you can hellcamp the most important alliance in a coalition into a station until they no longer want to play, then it's very easy mop-up work to deal with any of the other smaller "crews". The sad truth is that same tactics that we (PL) have been using for years will probably not change much, if at all, because of these changes. It will just make it even harder for small groups to come into 0.0.

EDIT: If you're interested, this is what we did with SOLAR. We hellcamped them in, and drove them out of the Eastern 1/2 of the map and after we dealt with them, then it was very easy to mopup other groups like RA or -A- .
Noelle Civire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4643 - 2014-10-03 00:55:24 UTC
FFS. The grass is not greener. A change was needed. We all can agree on that fact, but this is not it.
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4644 - 2014-10-03 00:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Eigenvalue
Summer Isle wrote:
Ab'del Abu wrote:
Just putting it out there:

Dreads and other assorted jump-capable ships without ship maintenance array should get a small SMA for storage of a frigate sized vessel.

Imagine you make some jumps and end up with a couple hours of cooldown timer ... sitting in some station in the middle of nullsec. It would be handy to have a ship (say a ceptor) to get somewhere else instead of just logging off.

Rookie ships are freely available (though I'd still love to get BP's for them). That being said, I would actually love seeing BS and above all having a 500 m3 SMH for fitting a shuttle in it. I've gotten addicted to sticking a shuttle in my DST's fleet hangar and being able to shuttle around to scout or simply to move around while waiting.


Wait so you jump to a mid in your capital then fly away from it? If the mid has no medical facility - you might end up having a heck of a time getting back to your ship when your timer of boredom expires

Edit: to get your free rookie ship are you ejecting from your cap and docking? If so, kindly let me know where your mids are
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4645 - 2014-10-03 00:55:41 UTC
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Outer Passage is 28 mids from Jita with the range nerf, and I need to make 3 runs per week. Be a sport and bring daddy an estimate of THAT, would you?

Sure. You hit a 5.5 hour jump timer at jump number 20 after 15 hours of travel, which would be a good time to take a break and get a nap. Once you wake up you can finish the run in less than an hour.

If you're smarter, you can do 14 jumps in 3.5 hours and take a 2 hour break, come back and finish the run. But that would require smarts.

Of course, you could probably do it in a lot fewer mids if you're willing to take a few gates. Paala - LXQ2-T makes a helluva difference in the total number of jumps needed. But of course you'd probably want someone to scout for you and clear the bubbles. But hey - shouldn't your PL overlords be willing to keep the chokepoints clear for you? After all you are paying them billions per month in rent...

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4646 - 2014-10-03 00:55:43 UTC
Radd Trigon wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Planned new feature to address new player movement:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, and
For all players, once a year

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
- Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
- Automatically moves you to your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status.


This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to nullsec" concern, and also gives non-nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.



Thoughts? Pasting this into the FAQ and also trying to get it into the blog proper.


I really dislike this. No disrespect intended, but it feels like a hastily cobbled together workaround to solve an inherent weakness of your medical clone plan. It also doesn't seem to have any basis in the lore of the game (but truth be told, the current medical clone system is disconnected with the lore as well).

I really think this is the approach you should consider:


  • Eliminate medical clones and instead allow pilots to designate one of their JCs as the "active" clone in case of podding.
  • Each player would thus start with a jump clone installed in his/her home system, designated as the active clone.
  • Any jump clone can be designated the "active" one, but it is on the same timer as your clone jump timer (or a different timer with the same duration) so you can't effectively have unlimited clone jumps.
  • Allow clones to be moved like any other good in New Eden, either by you or by someone else. Clones could be contracted just like ships or other goods.
  • When a clone is dropped in your hangar in any station, it will be installed at that station (assuming that there is not a clone installed there already).
  • If there is a clone there already, the clone will sit in your hangar until you move it or until the current clone is activated.
  • If a clone gets destroyed, too bad; make a new one.
  • Because it is too risky, you cannot move your only remaining clone. At least one must be installed in a station at all times.
  • When you need to upgrade your clone, you must upgrade all clones (a nice little ISK sink!).


These changes would prevent the OP ability to ping pong around the galaxy at very little cost while not completely destroying a game mechanic that has very real usefulness. In addition, it makes sense in the context of the lore of New Eden unlike the current (and proposed) medical clone system. Finally, it would add some interesting content to the game (imagine a corporation shipping hundreds of clones to a new system or the newbie getting his first taste of logistics in shipping his own clone out to 0.0).



Nah, doesn't go far enough.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
HITAMASHI
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4647 - 2014-10-03 00:57:49 UTC
Alter CCP wird das so durchgehen werde ich meine EVE Acc`s Kündigen und mir eine anderes Game suchen. Seit ihr alle bescheuert in Island ? Das kann nicht euer ernst sein.

Eve Online more Player lost ...........................................
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4648 - 2014-10-03 00:57:51 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Hey CCP Greyscale this is a game and not being able to use a core mechanic for travel for a month is so utterly retarded I can't believe you seriously consider it a good thing

hope that helps


Apparently this needs to be re-iterated.

Don't be stupid about using teleportation mechanics, and you never have to worry about it. Given you have to hit a 3 day jump timer before you get to that point, and several multi-hour timers before then, you should have plenty of time to wisen up.

Otherwise, people might remind you that being dumb in EVE has penalties, and this is probably one of them. Don't be dumb.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#4649 - 2014-10-03 00:58:49 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:

So what you're saying is that since some folks can make enough isk to pay others to do stuff for them to overcome a time sink, isk is a valid balancing mechanic, because they can't make enough to overcome a pure isk sink? Huh?

Oh, and given how Gewns are talking about how they'll be just fine holed up behind the massive walls of Fortress Deklein where no poors and pubbies could possibly hurt them, they might be good candidates for the next BoB. Of course, the rest of null will have ways to camp them into their little castle and starve them to death, so that should be fun too.



Nothing will matter but the choke points. Whoever controls them will be able to control the game. The megas are well represented in the CSM. They all seem to be on board with this plan.

Imagine that.


Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#4650 - 2014-10-03 00:59:16 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Have you ever done a logistics run?
Yes I have. Often.
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Back and forth in a jump freighter can be 12 jumps. That's no longer possible.
Yes it is. It will be more difficult, require a bit more planning, but will be possible.
Just change pilot halfway. Or twice at one third and two third of the way. Getting my characters there in covopps / interceptors isn't difficult, just takes some more time, that's all. Cool down gets manageable that way.
Yes, I happen to have three characters that are JF capable....;-)

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4651 - 2014-10-03 00:59:35 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:

It isn't different at all from current nullsec play. Also, almost nobody has multiple deployments to attack on multiple angles, and even when they do, it doesn't really matter anyways. So long as you can hellcamp the most important alliance in a coalition into a station until they no longer want to play, then it's very easy mop-up work to deal with any of the other smaller "crews". The sad truth is that same tactics that we (PL) have been using for years will probably not change much, if at all, because of these changes. It will just make it even harder for small groups to come into 0.0.

EDIT: If you're interested, this is what we did with SOLAR. We hellcamped them in, and drove them out of the Eastern 1/2 of the map and after we dealt with them, then it was very easy to mopup other groups like RA or -A- .


See in the Halloween war attacking from multiple angles is what Stainwagon and CFC attempted..

Unfortunately with the current ability to move caps pretty much anywhere this tactic wasn't overly effective for us.
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4652 - 2014-10-03 00:59:58 UTC
Thead Enco wrote:
SanDooD wrote:
Somewhere in CCP HQ:

Person In Charge: Null is stagnant!

Person A: We need to make space bigger!
Person B: We could always merge WH space with K space?
Person C: We could add more systems?
Person D: We could open the EVE gate?
Person E: We could open Jove space for starters?
Person F: We could allow sub-light travel between systems?
Person G: IdeaWe make everyone move slower than a snail! And! We make ships get fatigue, yeah!

Person In Charge: I like the G idea!


THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe that's because adding more space or making WH space more accessible would just make the existing stagnation bigger?

This sort of thing is why CCP "doesn't listen to the community." - there's almost nothing worth the time and effort to listen to.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Grave Digger Eriker
Doomheim
#4653 - 2014-10-03 01:00:04 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
The idea that I cannot jump for a month at a time WILL make me unsub. I do not think this is an unrealistic response from any cap pilot. Limit this to a day or two at most, otherwise I see no point in continuing to subscribe a super pilot if I literally cannot play the game absent gates. (Which is NOT acceptable for a super) I guarantee you that you will lose enough subscriptions from super/titan pilots from this change that it will ultimately hurt the game much more then it will benefit it.

Why supers and titan pilots unsubbing only. They will more likely lose cyno alt accounts, trade alt accounts, JF accounts and probably a fair few production accounts when there resorces run low. So not just veterans will quit for being completely screwed over by CCP Grayscale or whi hever genius came up with this debacle of a re-vamp. At least it will remove the need to do further iterations because there won't be anyone playing by then.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4654 - 2014-10-03 01:00:11 UTC
Garandras wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Outer Passage is 28 mids from Jita with the range nerf, and I need to make 3 runs per week. Be a sport and bring daddy an estimate of THAT, would you?

Well if you wait the timer every jump.. you are looking at about 2.8hrs

Closer to 7 actually, it's 15 minutes of fatigue per 5 LY jump. But yeah, could be done fairly fast. Assuming he's uber cautious about his routing and absolutely refuses to use stargates, of course, but being that risk averse OUGHT to have penalties of some kind.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#4655 - 2014-10-03 01:00:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kismeteer
'Smaller groups' 'Break up the blocs' 'Roaming is back'

:qq:
James Messina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4656 - 2014-10-03 01:01:24 UTC
This change make me want to leave high sec and move to null sec.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4657 - 2014-10-03 01:01:51 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:

Outer Passage is 28 mids from Jita with the range nerf, and I need to make 3 runs per week. Be a sport and bring daddy an estimate of THAT, would you?

Sure. You hit a 5.5 hour jump timer at jump number 20 after 15 hours of travel, which would be a good time to take a break and get a nap. Once you wake up you can finish the run in less than an hour.

If you're smarter, you can do 14 jumps in 3.5 hours and take a 2 hour break, come back and finish the run. But that would require smarts.

Of course, you could probably do it in a lot fewer mids if you're willing to take a few gates. Paala - LXQ2-T makes a helluva difference in the total number of jumps needed. But of course you'd probably want someone to scout for you and clear the bubbles. But hey - shouldn't your PL overlords be willing to keep the chokepoints clear for you? After all you are paying them billions per month in rent...


By which point anyone who is working a day job has probably decided to play a game that throws less needless complications into day to day logistics...
Thead Enco
Thunderwaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4658 - 2014-10-03 01:03:32 UTC
The Ironfist wrote:
CCP Greyscale once this is though and we wont or can't get to far away conflicts anymore were will we get our conflict you know content? What are you doing to make sure there will be local conflict? Because right now most nullsec space is not even worth fighting over much less holding it other then for renting it out? Are you going to address the fact that nullsec is especially worthless?


That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.[/quote]


Actually weren't you the Dev that nerfed Anom Tru Sec in which it made most of 0.0 useless to begin with some years back? Furthermore not even Blizzard is this ******** coming out with new changes just saying o7
Eigenvalue
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#4659 - 2014-10-03 01:04:02 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
. Which, you know, is kinda the point of these changes - to force you to pick your fights.

You won't be able to be everywhere you want to be anymore.


Which translates into "less fights for everyone and more timers to go around!"

Sounds "fun"
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4660 - 2014-10-03 01:04:09 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Viceversa wrote:
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
Viceversa wrote:
What is the reason of nerfing JF?

Has anyone been afraid of JF drops?


In a word: regionalization


Was it to be like isolation?


Is there a difference?

Can we just communicate through an endless stream of leading questions instead of making an actual point?


The point is that resources are distributed regionally, industry requires resources from everywhere, and CCP is killing trade by killing the jump freighter and the subscriptions that fly them.

Is it truly CCP's intention to kill inter-regional commerce? Because - make no mistake - that is the only thing the logistics pilots are here to defend. Killing us will do great harm to the EVE economy - there is no way without fast, long-range jump freighters to sustain the level of commerce needed to support the existing playerbase's way of life, and that includes those very strange, so very innocent teddy bears in hisec*.



* - something tells me Burn Jita is going to be spectacular next year. In fact, we should probably make it a 24-7-365 affair.