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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Adwokat Diabla
WeebFleet
Tsundere Triad
#4601 - 2014-10-03 00:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Adwokat Diabla
Vinyl Scrattch wrote:
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.

Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.

More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.

What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.



Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter.


Yeah so to fuel the PL renter program and just keep it MAINTAINED we have to do freighter ops where we get 10+ freighters to help maintain our renters. This is not to establish it. Saying "form an escort yo" is just not realistic when forming nullsec infrastructure requires such a massive m3 of hauling for people who want to pvp and not spend their free time escorting haulers.

freighter escorts create content


Having been on a few, I can say definitively that they do not create content. Instead, they are a waste of 3hrs of my time doing mind-crushingly boring guarding without anything happening. Nostalgia for people like Manny meant that they forgot that these are not fun, interesting or compelling aspects of gameplay that discourage people from playing the game; sadly CCP didn't recognize that nostalgia for what it was, which is wishful thinking based on the willful ignorance of the facts.
Talvorian Dex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4602 - 2014-10-03 00:32:37 UTC
Gunner GzR wrote:
all i can say for you null bears that trolled in the wh change thread and rejoiced at our complaints is

Carma is awesome

HAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I hope they remove or delay local as well


The word you're looking for is "karma". We demand - at the bare minimum - that people insulting and opposing us have a basic vocabulary of a third-grader.

Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
Murauke
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#4603 - 2014-10-03 00:32:46 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Massing all your capitals in one system becomes a fairly major strategic decision after these changes; if they're there, they're not somewhere else.




If you seriously think that anyone will be caught with there pants down come Nov. Phoebe deployment, then you just validated my new signature!

If it isn't a mass Un-subbing that sets you guys straight then I hope to God, that the Cap players figure out how to totally break your metrics so you all look like fools for being so heavy handed.

Iteration not Decimation!




Whats even funnier is the big alliances can already turn out hundreds of capitals a month, does CCP not think that the big blocks haven't already identified several strategic systems to store caps in and use pod express / high sec to access said caps.
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#4604 - 2014-10-03 00:33:08 UTC
Ab'del Abu wrote:
Just putting it out there:

Dreads and other assorted jump-capable ships without ship maintenance array should get a small SMA for storage of a frigate sized vessel.

Imagine you make some jumps and end up with a couple hours of cooldown timer ... sitting in some station in the middle of nullsec. It would be handy to have a ship (say a ceptor) to get somewhere else instead of just logging off.

Rookie ships are freely available (though I'd still love to get BP's for them). That being said, I would actually love seeing BS and above all having a 500 m3 SMH for fitting a shuttle in it. I've gotten addicted to sticking a shuttle in my DST's fleet hangar and being able to shuttle around to scout or simply to move around while waiting.

 Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4605 - 2014-10-03 00:33:33 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:

Yeah so to fuel the PL renter program and just keep it MAINTAINED we have to do freighter ops where we get 10+ freighters to help maintain our renters. This is not to establish it. Saying "form an escort yo" is just not realistic when forming nullsec infrastructure requires such a massive m3 of hauling for people who want to pvp and not spend their free time escorting haulers.

You mean maintaining a large renter program on the back end of nowhere might be difficult and impose costs / constraints on the landlords?

Wow.

Some folks might even think that this could cause some current landlords to assess the work just isn't worth the reward, or that continuing as-is would court burnout far too quickly.

I wonder if that might incentivize another group to take up the reigns...?
Or maybe cause current renters to decide that absentee landlords aren't worth having...?
Or maybe PL could decide that causing enough havoc in PBLRD space would either cause the CFC renter agreements to collapse or force a deployment that could make CFC homelands vulnerable...?

Man. I'm glad that there's no potential for the timesinks of maintaining large sprawling empires to cause any changes in nullbear behavior.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Talvorian Dex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4606 - 2014-10-03 00:34:17 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Have you ever done a logistics run? Back and forth in a jump freighter can be 12 jumps. That's no longer possible. I don't care a bit about combat capitals jumping - I actually like that. It's the non-combat capital jumps that cause this thing to be ill-thought out and the consequence of a drunken brainstorming session, not a measured mechanic change.

Yes. I have. Of course back in my day I did it using only 2 accounts and a carrier, so had to make a lot more runs for the same volume. When I wasn't escorting freighters out to the dronelands using subcaps and no titan, that is.

Of course, 12 jumps at maximum speed - jumping as soon as your jump cooldown is done - is less than two hours, leaving you with a little under 7 hours of jump fatigue accumulated and about 41 minutes for your 13th jump timer. Or you could play it really smart and just take 1 jump every 15 minutes, allowing your fatigue to completely dissipate after every jump, and make it there in 3 hours with no restrictions on starting back the other way.

Which obviously is the end of the world and 3 hour round trips in a JF is going to be the end of EVE.

Pansy entitled lazy effing nullbears, I swear. Get off my lawn already.


Not sure how you get "nullbears" out of my concern about acquiring a steady supply of PvP ships...

Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
#4607 - 2014-10-03 00:34:57 UTC
Murauke wrote:

Whats even funnier is the big alliances can already turn out hundreds of capitals a month, does CCP not think that the big blocks haven't already identified several strategic systems to store caps in and use pod express / high sec to access said caps.

PodEx is going the way of the dino, and will be very, very limited in the future. You would need your people to jump clone to get to said caps, or fly there via gates.

 Talk is cheap, but Void S and Quake L are cheaper.
Black Ambulance
#4608 - 2014-10-03 00:35:23 UTC
Gunner GzR wrote:
all i can say for you null bears that trolled in the wh change thread and rejoiced at our complaints is

Carma is awesome

HAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I hope they remove or delay local as well


I wish CCP will remove the POS shield too (as promised) :))))
Thead Enco
Domheimed
#4609 - 2014-10-03 00:35:58 UTC
smokeydapot wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Quote:

Jsut stop thinkignyou can live in 0.0 and playing alone.


Funny... I thought we wanted a null-sec that allowed us to play a variety of playstyles.

If CCP wants us to play the game only one way, then dictate it and do away with the fiction of a sandbox.


The sandbox is a lie EvilEvilEvil


EVE's more a litter box if anything
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4610 - 2014-10-03 00:36:38 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ivory Kantenu wrote:
You're ENCOURAGING people to not want to deploy by making things into a logistical headache for any force, be it large or small. Small guerrilla warfare is sadly NOT the lifeblood of Null, and this isn't going to help the issue.

In addition, the addition to this to Jump Bridges is just silly. You're basically making it so anything with multiple, large regions will have to wait to defend their space in a hurry?


Yes, and yes. Both deliberately.

BlueJeff Azul wrote:

Wait a second! You make an announcement of this importance , which affects all of 0.0, reduces all the hard work and planning to get to jump ships and you have yet to test this new, and shiny, development? Seriously? Who the heck is your marketing team? Are they aware of your plan to anger paying customers in this fashion?


P.S. RL example of poor marketing: Hey, lets change the formula of Coke and name it New Coke! Great idea! Guess what? New Coke bombed...do a frakkin focus group before ya drop bombs like this crap


This thread *is* our focus group.





Confirming that doing things "deliberately" is *not* a focus group.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Viceversa
Cancer Therapy
Ginnungagap
#4611 - 2014-10-03 00:37:41 UTC
What is the reason of nerfing JF?

Has anyone been afraid of JF drops?
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4612 - 2014-10-03 00:37:59 UTC
Degalo wrote:
Vinyl Scrattch wrote:

freighter escorts create content

Sure. For the ganker, and only for the ganker.

Unless losing a JF to a supercarrier camp on the regional gate you MUST take is "content".

You could, yanno, use those supers and titans that are gathering dust to clear that super camp that's sitting there waiting for those juicy freighters to come through.

One might even think that using fully insured freighters as bait convoys to lure out overconfident super / titan pilots might become a thing. Particularly in high traffic pipes.

But hey. Who am I to use my imagination?

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Murauke
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#4613 - 2014-10-03 00:38:24 UTC
Summer Isle wrote:
Murauke wrote:

Whats even funnier is the big alliances can already turn out hundreds of capitals a month, does CCP not think that the big blocks haven't already identified several strategic systems to store caps in and use pod express / high sec to access said caps.

PodEx is going the way of the dino, and will be very, very limited in the future. You would need your people to jump clone to get to said caps, or fly there via gates.


So either way you can still force project by using pod on jump bridges to high sec and move to low sec system within 15minutes..
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4614 - 2014-10-03 00:38:33 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Gunner GzR wrote:
all i can say for you null bears that trolled in the wh change thread and rejoiced at our complaints is

Carma is awesome

HAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I hope they remove or delay local as well


The word you're looking for is "karma". We demand - at the bare minimum - that people insulting and opposing us have a basic vocabulary of a third-grader.


Perhaps carma is caramel coated karma?

It would be a good depiction of this thread P

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4615 - 2014-10-03 00:39:32 UTC
Viceversa wrote:
What is the reason of nerfing JF?

Has anyone been afraid of JF drops?


In a word: regionalization

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Adwokat Diabla
WeebFleet
Tsundere Triad
#4616 - 2014-10-03 00:39:57 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Adwokat Diabla wrote:

Yeah so to fuel the PL renter program and just keep it MAINTAINED we have to do freighter ops where we get 10+ freighters to help maintain our renters. This is not to establish it. Saying "form an escort yo" is just not realistic when forming nullsec infrastructure requires such a massive m3 of hauling for people who want to pvp and not spend their free time escorting haulers.

You mean maintaining a large renter program on the back end of nowhere might be difficult and impose costs / constraints on the landlords?

Wow.

Some folks might even think that this could cause some current landlords to assess the work just isn't worth the reward, or that continuing as-is would court burnout far too quickly.

I wonder if that might incentivize another group to take up the reigns...?
Or maybe cause current renters to decide that absentee landlords aren't worth having...?
Or maybe PL could decide that causing enough havoc in PBLRD space would either cause the CFC renter agreements to collapse or force a deployment that could make CFC homelands vulnerable...?

Man. I'm glad that there's no potential for the timesinks of maintaining large sprawling empires to cause any changes in nullbear behavior.


You are missing the point entirely. People who try to take the space from us will simply be hellcamped right out of nullsec. (Which is what we did last time) We will not be interested in actually developing the space, which ultimately will lead to nullsec becoming alot more empty, with only massive coalitions able to live in null, because the small guys will just get crushed right back to lowsec. How is this beneficial to the game? When you dramatically increase the barriers to entry all you do is make coalitions become bigger and less people willing to come into null.
Rickwell Shor
Angelic CO
#4617 - 2014-10-03 00:41:03 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.

Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.

More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.

What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.



Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter.



Right have fun with that....do you know the cost of a jf dont you, at least goons and code will have fun with all the "escorts going on"

So far CCP have not only dubbed the fuel cost to make a jump,

With the range of the JF set at 5ly it will take 22 jumps to complet what I once did in 8 and 3 hours.
Degalo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4618 - 2014-10-03 00:41:17 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Degalo wrote:
Vinyl Scrattch wrote:

freighter escorts create content

Sure. For the ganker, and only for the ganker.

Unless losing a JF to a supercarrier camp on the regional gate you MUST take is "content".

You could, yanno, use those supers and titans that are gathering dust to clear that super camp that's sitting there waiting for those juicy freighters to come through.

One might even think that using fully insured freighters as bait convoys to lure out overconfident super / titan pilots might become a thing. Particularly in high traffic pipes.

But hey. Who am I to use my imagination?


Confirming that dropping on supers in what is likely their home system, or within 5ly of their home is a good idea after the changes - especially if you're a small alliance trying to break into sov null.

You've never actually done anything with caps/supers, have you?
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4619 - 2014-10-03 00:41:52 UTC
Polo Marco wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:

I disagree. Isk is not a valid mechanism for balancing things, not for large scale issues. We've seen time and time again that the top groups will find a way to work around such limitations, in ways and with a speed CCP cannot predict.

Time and effort are the only things that work as limiting factors in a game like this.


Not if you make enough ISK. Then you pay other players enough to put in the time and effort for you.

Removing the jump gate restrictions for caps and shortening the logistic capabilities enough that you must use the jump gates to empire will just empower the megacorps that much more.

There's gonna be another BoB. And when it's over all the losing Megacorps will blame Greyscale for ruining their game. :D

Everyone will be whining.

You will shake your head.

And I'll say "I told you so"

So what you're saying is that since some folks can make enough isk to pay others to do stuff for them to overcome a time sink, isk is a valid balancing mechanic, because they can't make enough to overcome a pure isk sink? Huh?

Oh, and given how Gewns are talking about how they'll be just fine holed up behind the massive walls of Fortress Deklein where no poors and pubbies could possibly hurt them, they might be good candidates for the next BoB. Of course, the rest of null will have ways to camp them into their little castle and starve them to death, so that should be fun too.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Gunner GzR
Air
The Initiative.
#4620 - 2014-10-03 00:42:10 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Gunner GzR wrote:
all i can say for you null bears that trolled in the wh change thread and rejoiced at our complaints is

Carma is awesome

HAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I hope they remove or delay local as well


The word you're looking for is "karma". We demand - at the bare minimum - that people insulting and opposing us have a basic vocabulary of a third-grader.



nope i will leave it as is and i like 3rd grade

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please