These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#4581 - 2014-10-03 00:20:34 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Let me ask you something. If you drive 20 miles a day to work, and suddenly you can only drive to work 1 day a week, and have to ride a scooter the rest of the days (Because of your jump fatigue), are you going to work 20 miles away? No, you're going to get a new job right next door.

Actually, I use a car pool, so I can work 20 miles away and still only drive 1 day per week. This saves on my RL traffic fatigue, saves a lot of RL money on RL fuel costs, and I get a discount on my RL car insurance.

There is a rational solution to most problems, in game and out of game, without resorting to whining and temper tantrums.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4582 - 2014-10-03 00:20:54 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.

Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.

More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.

What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.



Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter.


The fact that you don't understand why that's not tenable long-term is the same reason why I'm not going to argue with you about it.



Peopel did that for YEARS before JF appeared. IT is sustainable. You just need a dozen peopel REALLY logged in and not on jabber waiting a ping. You know.. REALLY playing the game.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#4583 - 2014-10-03 00:21:46 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
I didn't find out until just last week that they weren't allowed to be in null sec. That was a shocker, but did explain a few things.


That statement is not accurate. EVE developers are definitely permitted to play the game in any region on their personal accounts.


Hmm interesting. I was pretty sure a dev said that on Reddit. Thanks for the correction.

Now I'm back wondering about the "things" What?



If I know what statement you are talking about.. was about devs not being allowed to be inthe LEADERSHIP of alliances


No, I caught that. This was definitely about being confined to HiSec. Which I thought was odd, but then T20....
Talvorian Dex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4584 - 2014-10-03 00:22:07 UTC
Quote:

Jsut stop thinkignyou can live in 0.0 and playing alone.


Funny... I thought we wanted a null-sec that allowed us to play a variety of playstyles.

If CCP wants us to play the game only one way, then dictate it and do away with the fiction of a sandbox.

Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
Murauke
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#4585 - 2014-10-03 00:22:50 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.

Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.

More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.

What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.



Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter.


The fact that you don't understand why that's not tenable long-term is the same reason why I'm not going to argue with you about it.



Peopel did that for YEARS before JF appeared. IT is sustainable. You just need a dozen peopel REALLY logged in and not on jabber waiting a ping. You know.. REALLY playing the game.


You mean treating this game like an army barracks with alarm clock ops?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#4586 - 2014-10-03 00:23:43 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

If I know what statement you are talking about.. was about devs not being allowed to be inthe LEADERSHIP of alliances


Devs can, and do, play anywhere. There are things that they are not allowed to do, however. It's also problematic if you're found to be a dev while playing your private accounts (so please, if you suspect someone is a dev kindly stfu and keep it to yourself).

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#4587 - 2014-10-03 00:24:22 UTC
Just putting it out there:

Dreads and other assorted jump-capable ships without ship maintenance array should get a small SMA for storage of a frigate sized vessel.

Imagine you make some jumps and end up with a couple hours of cooldown timer ... sitting in some station in the middle of nullsec. It would be handy to have a ship (say a ceptor) to get somewhere else instead of just logging off.
smokeydapot
Moon Of The Pheonix
#4588 - 2014-10-03 00:24:48 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Quote:

Jsut stop thinkignyou can live in 0.0 and playing alone.


Funny... I thought we wanted a null-sec that allowed us to play a variety of playstyles.

If CCP wants us to play the game only one way, then dictate it and do away with the fiction of a sandbox.


The sandbox is a lie EvilEvilEvil
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4589 - 2014-10-03 00:24:58 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Have you ever done a logistics run? Back and forth in a jump freighter can be 12 jumps. That's no longer possible. I don't care a bit about combat capitals jumping - I actually like that. It's the non-combat capital jumps that cause this thing to be ill-thought out and the consequence of a drunken brainstorming session, not a measured mechanic change.

Yes. I have. Of course back in my day I did it using only 2 accounts and a carrier, so had to make a lot more runs for the same volume. When I wasn't escorting freighters out to the dronelands using subcaps and no titan, that is.

Of course, 12 jumps at maximum speed - jumping as soon as your jump cooldown is done - is less than two hours, leaving you with a little under 7 hours of jump fatigue accumulated and about 41 minutes for your 13th jump timer. Or you could play it really smart and just take 1 jump every 15 minutes, allowing your fatigue to completely dissipate after every jump, and make it there in 3 hours with no restrictions on starting back the other way.

Which obviously is the end of the world and 3 hour round trips in a JF is going to be the end of EVE.

Pansy entitled lazy effing nullbears, I swear. Get off my lawn already.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4590 - 2014-10-03 00:25:59 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


Massing all your capitals in one system becomes a fairly major strategic decision after these changes; if they're there, they're not somewhere else.




If you seriously think that anyone will be caught with there pants down come Nov. Phoebe deployment, then you just validated my new signature!

If it isn't a mass Un-subbing that sets you guys straight then I hope to God, that the Cap players figure out how to totally break your metrics so you all look like fools for being so heavy handed.

Iteration not Decimation!


CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4591 - 2014-10-03 00:26:17 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.

Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.

More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.

What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.



Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter.


The fact that you don't understand why that's not tenable long-term is the same reason why I'm not going to argue with you about it.

"If you don't agree to my position beforehand, I won't discuss the issue!"

Guess what? It just became viable long term because there's not going to be an alternative.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Vinyl Scrattch
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#4592 - 2014-10-03 00:26:51 UTC
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.

Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.

More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.

What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.



Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter.


Yeah so to fuel the PL renter program and just keep it MAINTAINED we have to do freighter ops where we get 10+ freighters to help maintain our renters. This is not to establish it. Saying "form an escort yo" is just not realistic when forming nullsec infrastructure requires such a massive m3 of hauling for people who want to pvp and not spend their free time escorting haulers.

freighter escorts create content
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4593 - 2014-10-03 00:27:09 UTC
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Let me ask you something. If you drive 20 miles a day to work, and suddenly you can only drive to work 1 day a week, and have to ride a scooter the rest of the days (Because of your jump fatigue), are you going to work 20 miles away? No, you're going to get a new job right next door.

Depends a lot on the job, how much it pays, and how satisfying I find the work to be. Of course, I already live in a high traffic commuting area and have to deal with long commutes as it is - so I suppose I'm just a bigger harder man than others.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Erufen Rito
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#4594 - 2014-10-03 00:28:08 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Let me ask you something. If you drive 20 miles a day to work, and suddenly you can only drive to work 1 day a week, and have to ride a scooter the rest of the days (Because of your jump fatigue), are you going to work 20 miles away? No, you're going to get a new job right next door.

Actually, I use a car pool, so I can work 20 miles away and still only drive 1 day per week. This saves on my RL traffic fatigue, saves a lot of RL money on RL fuel costs, and I get a discount on my RL car insurance.

There is a rational solution to most problems, in game and out of game, without resorting to whining and temper tantrums.

And I work at a cruise ship, so technically, I work from home.

Sure, I have to take an elevator 3 decks up, but hey....I could walk too.

This is as nice as I get. Best quote ever https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4137165#post4137165
Gunner GzR
Air
The Initiative.
#4595 - 2014-10-03 00:30:23 UTC
all i can say for you null bears that trolled in the wh change thread and rejoiced at our complaints is

Carma is awesome

HAHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I hope they remove or delay local as well

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#4596 - 2014-10-03 00:30:42 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:

If you really want to stop the megacorps you have to make them unprofitable. Many of these 'nullbears' pay billions per month. You're not going to stop that by roaming through twice a week shooting up the place. the only content you provide by doing this is amusement from the locals and a break in boredom for the on call response fleets who are so bored they will hot drop a fly on the windowpane just for something to do.

I disagree. Isk is not a valid mechanism for balancing things, not for large scale issues. We've seen time and time again that the top groups will find a way to work around such limitations, in ways and with a speed CCP cannot predict.

Time and effort are the only things that work as limiting factors in a game like this.


Not if you make enough ISK. Then you pay other players enough to put in the time and effort for you.

Removing the jump gate restrictions for caps and shortening the logistic capabilities enough that you must use the jump gates to empire will just empower the megacorps that much more.

There's gonna be another BoB. And when it's over all the losing Megacorps will blame Greyscale for ruining their game. :D

Everyone will be whining.

You will shake your head.

And I'll say "I told you so"

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Noelle Civire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4597 - 2014-10-03 00:30:47 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
Let me ask you something. If you drive 20 miles a day to work, and suddenly you can only drive to work 1 day a week, and have to ride a scooter the rest of the days (Because of your jump fatigue), are you going to work 20 miles away? No, you're going to get a new job right next door.

Depends a lot on the job, how much it pays, and how satisfying I find the work to be. Of course, I already live in a high traffic commuting area and have to deal with long commutes as it is - so I suppose I'm just a bigger harder man than others.



.. really?
Talvorian Dex
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4598 - 2014-10-03 00:31:08 UTC
Quote:

Peopel did that for YEARS before JF appeared. IT is sustainable. You just need a dozen peopel REALLY logged in and not on jabber waiting a ping. You know.. REALLY playing the game.


Let me put this in another context. What happened when the Eve gate collapsed? The easy route for empires to supply themselves fell apart, and the society in the lore utterly collapsed for thousands of years. "Why are you bitching? You can slow-boat to the Eve galaxy."

Anotehr take... arguing that what was acceptable years ago should be acceptable now is extremely foolish. "Bathe downstream of the privy. It's what people did yeas ago." These years ago you speak of, getting 125 guys in a fleet was impossible. Now, it's quite commonplace. How many guys does it take to alpha a freighter? Not many. After a few of those, people will simply stop caring and stop playing.

Jump freighters and some form of fitted subcap carrier HAVE to be excluded, or this isn't going to end well. You don't pinch off a diver's oxygen, then be upset when he doesn't come back with any nice underwater pictures.

Writer of Target Caller, an Eve Online PvP blog, at http://targetcaller.blogspot.com
Degalo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4599 - 2014-10-03 00:31:10 UTC
Vinyl Scrattch wrote:
Adwokat Diabla wrote:
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Talvorian Dex wrote:
I'm going to make one post, with the hope that the devs are still reading this thread. I'm gonna say this once.

Nerfing capitals into the ground is one thing (and that's what you're doing). I'm fine with that. But this is draconian.

More importantly, you're also obliterating so much more that relies on jump bridges, jump engines, and high-volume movement.

What happened to CCP Seagull saying, "We want to support content enablers!" (those who handle logistics, fuel, etc. that allow others to enjoy their gameplay)? With these changes, you've basically put your arm around them, cuddled them gently, then threw them to the ground and curbstomped them until they had a mouthful of broken teeth and bloody gums.



Here is your content enabler. Form a fleet and escort a freighter.


Yeah so to fuel the PL renter program and just keep it MAINTAINED we have to do freighter ops where we get 10+ freighters to help maintain our renters. This is not to establish it. Saying "form an escort yo" is just not realistic when forming nullsec infrastructure requires such a massive m3 of hauling for people who want to pvp and not spend their free time escorting haulers.

freighter escorts create content


Sure. For the ganker, and only for the ganker.

Unless losing a JF to a supercarrier camp on the regional gate you MUST take is "content".
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4600 - 2014-10-03 00:31:30 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Will cyno jammers stop caps jumping in through your gate?


Nope, that's what bubbles are for.





So then what are Cyno Jammers still good for?

Support fleet clears said bubbles, making cyno jammer absolutely useless in the first place...

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf